GAME 17: DEN (10-7) @ DAL (8-9) | 113-117 loss

[Kammrath]

The problem with WCS is that he is a major liability on the offensive side of the floor

I disagree with this. 

Can you offer any data to back this up other than your opinion? (Your opinion is fine and you have a right to it, but it would be good to get beyond "he said, she said")


The Mavs offense this season has been 11.4 pts better when WCS plays. I think that is an INFLATED number and I think it will get closer to zero over time, but it at least points to the fact that he hasn't been a "major liability."

[Scott41theMavs]

Nuggets made KP look soft out there!

He needs to get back into the weight room, tbh. Being jacked last year didn't create a freak contact injury.

[RDB]

It’s odd that everyone else seems pissed...feels like a I am missing something.  I saw some positives and thought we looked really good in the second half minus the closing minutes.  Denver is a better team than we are and I have no illusions that we are contenders this year. I thought Brunson played well and despite what someone else said, I have watched him the most these last 2 games and I think he is underrated defensively.  Move him to the 2, sign John Collins, and let’s get our championship.

[cow]

I think this is an overblown narrative. Does he blow some he should make? Hell yes. But he is shooting 60.9% from the field which is top 10 in the league. Him not finishing at the rim is not causing the offense to suck or something.

-The reverse layup that he missed so badly that it looked like he was passing off the backboard to a three point shooter where he should have just gone up strong instead.
-The perfect pass Luka threw to him up high only for him to bring it down low and cause a jump ball.
-A layup attempt he passed up because he was indecisive and threw out to the corner for a missed three.

Only one of those counts negatively towards his shooting percentage.

[KillerLeft]

I’m going to post this before I read through the thread: you guys know how much I love Carlisle, but he pulled the wrong big at the last timeout.

Johnson had a great game, but the coach wasted it by riding him about three minutes too long.

WCS sucked on offense, but he’s a difference maker against Jokic. Brings out the best in him, defensively.

Ultimately, the best decision might have been to sit KP’s ass to close the game, but you really can’t blame coach for not doing that. That’s the kind of stuff that gets you fired.

WCS/KP should’ve closed.

Lol, now I’ve read through the thread. I just showed up to the news team fight n anchorman like Ben Stiller without even realizing it.

[mtrot]

I think this is an overblown narrative. Does he blow some he should make? Hell yes. But he is shooting 60.9% from the field which is top 10 in the league. Him not finishing at the rim is not causing the offense to suck or something.

But those misses at the rim are precipitating too many fast break and opponent scores at the other end. At least it seems that way to me.

[dirkfansince1998]

It’s odd that everyone else seems pissed...feels like a I am missing something.  I saw some positives and thought we looked really good in the second half minus the closing minutes.  Denver is a better team than we are and I have no illusions that we are contenders this year. I thought Brunson played well and despite what someone else said, I have watched him the most these last 2 games and I think he is underrated defensively.  Move him to the 2, sign John Collins, and let’s get our championship.

Because the Mavs really needed a win. Next 4 games are 2x Jazz, 2x Suns. Both teams are looking better than the Mavs right now. Mavs are 8-9 right now. Could easily be 9-12 or even 8-13.

[Kammrath]

I saw you blaming him when he was -11 in the first half. Calling him a liability on both ends. I think yesterday you mentioned that all stats have pros and cons. That´s why I don´t understand why you are willing to die on the single game +/- hill.

I am not dying on any single game +/- , where is that happening? I am simply offering it up as one piece of information because it does tell us something and something is better than just throwing our opinions back and forth. 

Like I said, JJ was really poor defensively at the beginning and then at the very end he got punished (and REALLY seems to suck with KP, and that might be KP's fault too). But in the middle of the game and 3rd quarter was much better, especially offensively. I also clearly said that this was an observation of 16 games from me, not a one off reaction.

[Mavs03]

Guys we played a healthy Denver Nuggets team with 4 key rotation players missing and KP playing absolutely terrible.  I know one thing.  Denver does not want to play Dallas in the playoffs.  Assuming we're healthy, I think Dallas can get on a hot streak and will end up being a top 4 team in the West.

[Scott41theMavs]

Luka gotta be getting tired of having to drag this island of misfit toys around game in and game out.

...and to me this is the biggest concern.

[mtrot]

He needs to get back into the weight room, tbh. Being jacked last year didn't create a freak contact injury.

Yes, I was just noticing tonight how much muscle he's lost since early last season.

[Scott41theMavs]

It’s odd that everyone else seems pissed...feels like a I am missing something. I saw some positives and thought we looked really good in the second half minus the closing minutes. Denver is a better team than we are and I have no illusions that we are contenders this year. I thought Brunson played well and despite what someone else said, I have watched him the most these last 2 games and I think he is underrated defensively. Move him to the 2, sign John Collins, and let’s get our championship.

Looked to me like Brunson was getting abused defensively, which would likely be why he didn't play at the end. I suppose that's what Fuerza's mad about, but he still won't tell us.

[cow]

I disagree with this. 

Can you offer any data to back this up other than your opinion? (Your opinion is fine and you have a right to it, but it would be good to get beyond "he said, she said")


The Mavs offense this season has been 11.4 pts better when WCS plays. I think that is an INFLATED number and I think it will get closer to zero over time, but it at least points to the fact that he hasn't been a "major liability."

I posted three examples above from tonight's game.  Just look how defenses skew their sets with WCS or Iwundu on the floor.  Denver sagged off of Johnson a bunch tonight too and I certainly would have like to see him pull the trigger more but he did make them pay at times.

[KillerLeft]

Guys we played a healthy Denver Nuggets team with 4 key rotation players missing and KP playing absolutely terrible.  I know one thing.  Denver does not want to play Dallas in the playoffs.  Assuming we're healthy, I think Dallas can get on a hot streak and will end up being a top 4 team in the West.

Are you prepared to place your hand on a big stack of Bibles and say you are 100% sure the Mavericks make the playoffs?

We seem to be thinking of this Covid situation like it is temporary. The reality is that the first two weeks of the season sucked and then the Covid thing popped up just as they were figuring things out. At times over the last week they have looked worse than they have since before they drafted Luka. So basically for the team to make the playoffs, they need to get all of the guys back soon (not a given), learn how to play together effectively quickly after that (not a given) and then avoid any other crisis for the rest of the season, as they might be dealing with a razor hint margin for error. 

I am not trying to be a naysayer, and I am not prepared to predict that they won’t make the playoffs, but the thought has been crossing my mind for the past week.

[Kammrath]

Looked to me like Brunson was getting abused defensively

Yeah Brunson+JJ on defense were PUNISHED in the first half.

[Scott41theMavs]

Guys we played a healthy Denver Nuggets team with 4 key rotation players missing and KP playing absolutely terrible. I know one thing. Denver does not want to play Dallas in the playoffs. Assuming we're healthy, I think Dallas can get on a hot streak and will end up being a top 4 team in the West.

Are you prepared to place your hand on a big stack of Bibles and say you are 100% sure the Mavericks make the playoffs?

We seem to be thinking of this Covid situation like it is temporary. The reality is that the first two weeks of the season sucked and then the Covid thing popped up just as they were figuring things out. At times over the last week they have looked worse than they have since before the drafted Luka. So basically, for the team to make the playoffs, they need to get all of the guys back soon (not a given), learn how to play together effectively quickly after that (not a given) and then avoid any other crisis for the rest of the season, as they might be dealing with a razor hint margin for error.

I am not trying to be a naysayer, and I am not prepared to predict that they won’t make the playoffs, but the thought has been crossing my mind for the past week.

We need a trade desperately, but we also desperately need for it not to be a desperation trade - the worst position to be in with this front office.

[RDB]

Because the Mavs really needed a win. Next 4 games are 2x Jazz, 2x Suns. Both teams are looking better than the Mavs right now. Mavs are 8-9 right now. Could easily be 9-12 or even 8-13.

I get it but in my opinion we are not going anywhere this year anyway without meaningful changes.  Our team consists of Luka and a bunch of specialists.  My interest is in preparing for max Luka.

[cow]

Are you prepared to place your hand on a big stack of Bibles and say you are 100% sure the Mavericks make the playoffs?

We seem to be thinking of this Covid situation like it is temporary. The reality is that the first two weeks of the season sucked and then the Covid thing popped up just as they were figuring things out. At times over the last week they have looked worse than they have since before the drafted Luka. So basically, for the team to make the playoffs, they need to get all of the guys back soon (not a given), learn how to play together effectively quickly after that (not a given) and then avoid any other crisis for the rest of the season, as they might be dealing with a razor hint margin for error. 

I am not trying to be a naysayer, and I am not prepared to predict that they won’t make the playoffs, but the thought has been crossing my mind for the past week.

Other teams are going to get hit with COVID too.  I think KL and PG13 are in protocol right now.  That's not to say that we can't get a second round featuring our stars. We've never been at full strength.

[ThisIStheYear]

Going after WCS is misguided. He’s a low paid bit player. You just hope he can do something, anything to contribute. It’s up to Luka and Zinger to win it. The game was there, but Zinger just wasn’t up to it tonight. The shots weren’t going down and he didn’t really offer much on the boards.

Mavs better get this turned around or they’re going to be sending the Knicks a nice pick. Really, by all rights, the Mavs should be contending this year. Unfortunately, they’re going backwards. Luka is setting records but the rest of this roster has just been overpaid dreck.

[Kammrath]

I posted three examples above from tonight's game.  Just look how defenses skew their sets with WCS or Iwundu on the floor.

I am not dismissing your examples, just haven't had a chance to respond. I think your examples are legit. Thanks for offering them. 

Again, my opinion is not that WCS is some sort of huge offensive positive. But he offers enough as a roll threat that he keeps defenses honest a lot of times and then his impact on the defensive end helps outweigh the fact that his hands are not that good. The problem with Wes and JJ is that they can't be a roll threat like WCS so they just kill the spacing completely. WCS only hurts spacing a little.