GIANNIS THREAD: Giannis has SIGNED the Supermax

[ItsGoTime]

I don't think listing all the negatives with no regard for reality "reigns it back in" any more than folks married to their political parties "reign things back in" by talking to each other in absolutes.

Your post was a part of the whole, but since you’re there. Listing all the negatives when all the positives are already out there is the reality check. The thought is out there whether you want to believe it or not. The thought doesn’t care.

[ItsGoTime]

I have been a professional bus driver, when it comes to running over the MBT, but if there is one thing that you can´t accuse them of it´s not being player friendly. I´d argue it´s the opposite.

1. They have served as a retirement home for washed-up NBA players for the last decade.

I´d guess 5% of the retired NBA players do it with us. Can probably add JJB and Courtney Lee to the list. Then we have Amare, Deron, Charlie V, Devin Harris and so on.

2. Matthews and DAJ. Please, those two stole money from Cuban.

The players around the league are mad that we traded them? More likely they are mad, we don´t hand out idiotic contracts to childish has-beens and broken down fakers anymore. DAJ, of all people, feeling mis-treated after the whole first go around. Wow.

3. Barnes. He wanted to stay in Dallas, but Dallas didn´t want him to stay. That´s just daily NBA business.

Would it have been more enjoyable for him to miss the rest of the season with the ankle flu as the Mavs tried to tank for a top pick? The fact that he opted to re-sign in Sacramento also says that we traded him to a preferred destination. So maybe the timing could have been handled better (mid-game), but here is the thing. The Mavs rarely leak stuff, so it either came from the agent to make the Mavs look bad or the Kings, because they wanted to announce their top acquisition asap. On paper they easily got the best player in the deal.

4. DFS. Oh sure he´d like to have a better contract now, but has a player ever asked to give money back, if he didn´t live up to his deal? The Mavs gave him his NBA break and featured him heavily as a starter, so that he has grown his status to the next Covington level. When his current contract is up, he´ll turn that into a $40-50M payday. Most likely and hopefully with the Mavs.

So yeah the examples given are bad imho.

The thought that they are a ruthless FO doesn’t care about the excuses as to why.


As far as DFS. There is a reason the moment he signed that contract it was celebrated as a team friendly deal. He was and is worth every bit as much as DP and Kleber who were given their contracts in the exact same offseason (last one). It’s not fully about what DFS thinks about it either. It’s about players from the outside looking in, if they’re predisposed to think the FO is ruthless unless your a part of their “in” guys, these will show as examples to strengthen that thought.

[fifteenth]

Your post was a part of the whole, but since you’re there. Listing all the negatives when all the positives are already out there is the reality check. The thought is out there whether you want to believe it or not. The thought doesn’t care.

I don't completely get what you're saying, but I'm trying. I guess I don't really think that way but I need to recognize when other folks do, maybe. I don't usually think of bringing balance to an unbalanced view by going unbalanced in the other direction.

---

I need to remember to just stay out of this conversation.

[FunkBoreland]

Thats a like from George Hill.

"Harden of the East"
"needs to learn basketball"

I would of like if Giannis learn fundamentals (dribbling, handles, shooting) first before muscling up to be a Center. That's like seeing Kevin Durant beefing up to be Kevin Garnett 2.0.

This is a young Giannis. What could of been a shooting/slashing type of player became just a one dimensional offensive player. Adding shooting to his game would of made advances to ECF a few times already.

https://youtu.be/eZk6MQE5t5w?t=140

[MaxiThreeba]

All because Bill Simmons says so?

I wonder what the actual perception is of the Mavs org across the league...not the half baked one Simmons throws out there.

[DallasMaverick]

The thought that they are a ruthless FO doesn’t care about the excuses as to why.


As far as DFS. There is a reason the moment he signed that contract it was celebrated as a team friendly deal. He was and is worth every bit as much as DP and Kleber who were given their contracts in the exact same offseason (last one). It’s not fully about what DFS thinks about it either. It’s about players from the outside looking in, if they’re predisposed to think the FO is ruthless unless your a part of their “in” guys, these will show as examples to strengthen that thought.

So... wouldn't most other NBA players think: "Wow!  Dorian needs to get a better agent!" instead of "Wow! The MBT really took advantage of him!"

[Tyler]

IMO, all the talk about the perception of the Mavs organization around the league is fine. But reducing it to a single score or perception is fruitless because every team is different and appeals to different types of players. The Lakers attract a certain type of player. Which is different than Miami. Which is different than San Antonio. Which is different than Denver. All good teams, but with very different cultures.

And yes, Dallas attracts a certain type. For every guy like Rondo who hates Carlisle for not being a pushover, there are others who love him for the exact same thing. And for every player who believes Barnes was somehow mistreated when he was traded, there are plenty who would kill for the opportunity Dallas gave him while he was here and the contract they ultimately helped him land in Sacramento. Dallas won't appeal to every player in the league, and that's fine! No team does. Believe it or not, not every player wants to be under LBJs thumb in LA either.

In the grand scheme of things, all indications are that the Mavs have a pretty good thing going right now. So rather than waste precious life energy fretting over players who may not fit in Dallas, maybe we can simply talk more proactively about guys who do. 

Like Giannis.

[Mavsfan12]

So... wouldn't most other NBA players think: "Wow!  Dorian needs to get a better agent!" instead of "Wow! The MBT really took advantage of him!"

I am trying to come up with a reason why, at the time he signed that deal, anyone would have thought that he was being taken advantage of... in any way.  

DFS signed that contract after coming off a season where he played <25m scored 7.5pts, on 31% shooting from 3.  He started 26 games.  What do you guys think the going rate was for guys like that?  Not much above league min, if that.  

To compare, the Mavs just signed a guy with a similar profile to a min contract this offseason: Iwundu.  He played 18min, scored 5.8 on 34% shooting from 3 with better analytics on defense.  He started 21 games.

How exactly are the Mavs viewed poorly that he was developed into a better player - after they gave him his chance as an UDFA and given playing time?  If anything, he is an example of why we should be a place where young players want to come to develop and be given a chance if they earn it.  Maybe why Iwundu chose to come here, tbh.

[Hypermav]

'I want somebody who's gonna pass the ball!'

 I just don't see Harden a Buck.

[sefant]

All because Bill Simmons says so?

I wonder what the actual perception is of the Mavs org across the league...not the half baked one Simmons throws out there.

There is the ATL insider that posted why Porzingis trade happened so quickly few months ago.

Intel was Knicks getting Kyrie/Durant. Deandre being a friend of both. He compared the Mavs to the Knicks in terms of daily life (facility, coaching staff, etc. pp) and quickly started talking both out of the Knicks behind the scenes. They went to the Nets as a result.

[ItsGoTime]

I don't completely get what you're saying, but I'm trying. I guess I don't really think that way but I need to recognize when other folks do, maybe. I don't usually think of bringing balance to an unbalanced view by going unbalanced in the other direction

When there is a list of specifics that only bring to light the positives, how else do you get balance without listing specific negatives? That’s balance is it not? DFS98 never said he was discounting the positives, he never said they were horrible because of the negatives. That’s you bringing in your interpretation of what he said. I guess this is why it’s hard to get on the same page much of the time.


Just because a person can see and not look past negatives of anything doesn’t mean they don’t like that thing either.

[Mapka]

Oh, you asked him, cool.

Maybe he thinks this, and I'd go as far as probably. Also, maybe he has a touch of remorse over how his negotiation with the FO went as opposed to how it went for Kleber and Powell. DFS has worked just as hard as either of those two. He's been rewarded for that hard work as a starter who helps to guard some of the better players in this league.

He hasn't been rewarded monetarily like Kleber and Powell have for the same hard work and results. Even if you argue that he's not worth as much as them, I can't believe that he's worth half as much. I wonder if he believes he's worth half as much.

I tried to give this an overall positiv view, because I think this kind of contract is a success for an undrafted player. 

I liked the contract for the Mavs the second he was put out. Couldn't believe nobody made a better offer (RFA). 

But he hadn't really earned a much bigger contract with his play, shooting just around 30% from 3. It was a kind of "we believe in you, but we are not sure yet" offer. 

I also remember Maxi talking about his agent fishing for offers from other teams. Maybe DFSs didn't and should have or didn't get any. 

If there is a ruthless move to talk about, it's sending Devin to the Nuggets.

[Branduil]

There is a way around him having to "forgo years of guaranteed money".  So, that really isn't the question.  The question is whether a new deal starting with a 20% raise is good enough.  After opting-in (and in the new NBA year), Richardson can get a 4/$60 extension starting at about $14mm.  If his market next summer is $18mm to start, then this doesn't happen.  But if he's going to pull in $14-$15mm anyway, then there is a path to keeping him at his smaller opt-in number.  

IF that were to happen, the loss of talent to create room for GA is Boban, WCS, Johnson, THJ, Powell (presumably) and Josh Green (or similar).  The remaining talent is:

Bigs:  KP/GA/Maxi
Wings:  DFS/JRich/Iwundu/Bey
Ball Handlers:  Luka/Brunson/Terry/Burke

Add in the Room MLE and minimums as needed.

Well sure if JRich doesn't play well enough to get offers higher than his cap hold then it's a moot point. But I don't see that happening unless he fails to meet expectations, and at that point is it even worth keeping him?


I'm expecting him to at least match his best Miami numbers while playing good defense. That should really be the minimum we expect of him, he's not going to find a better place for him to succeed.

[Mavs2019]

If you want to make an argument as to why some players don´t like to sign with the Mavs/dislike the Mavs, then it would be that they are not a franchise you can make your b*tch as a superstar. You will not pull sh*t like Harden or even Kawhi in Dallas.

You don´t dictate, when you show up to practice, what players to trade for and who the head coach is. The head coach is the boss and he has the 100% backing of the owner. You can´t play politics on the Mavs.

Then it´s worth remembering that LeBron tried to get Spoelstra fired and Riley simply said NO. Later Bron tried to dictate and influence front office decisions in free agency and Riley said NO again, so LeBron left. Though that didn´t stop Butler from signing there recently.

The truth is all our player recruitment problems come from our FO doing an awful job with the franchise direction and on-court product for a decade. God knows how awful the next 10 years would have been without getting Luka.

[ItsGoTime]

If you want to make an argument as to why some players don´t like to sign with the Mavs/dislike the Mavs, then it would be that they are not a franchise you can make your b*tch as a superstar. You will not pull sh*t like Harden or even Kawhi in Dallas.

You don´t dictate, when you show up to practice, what players to trade for and who the head coach is. The head coach is the boss and he has the 100% backing of the owner. You can´t play politics on the Mavs.

Then it´s worth remembering that LeBron tried to get Spoelstra fired and Riley simply said NO. Later Bron tried to dictate and influence front office decisions in free agency and Riley said NO again, so LeBron left. Though that didn´t stop Butler from signing there recently.

The truth is all our player recruitment problems come from our FO doing an awful job with the franchise direction and on-court product for a decade. God knows how awful the next 10 years would have been without getting Luka.

Part of the whole. Good points.

[DanSchwartzgan]

Not being a player, I have no idea what our reputation is among players.

One thing I've not seen mentioned is the expectation players have regarding trades.  Players know they are subject to being traded at any time.  But some should have a greater expectation of staying with a team than others.  For instance, a draft pick or a player who comes here in a trade should have no expectation of not being traded.  I'd argue it is at least a little different when someone comes here as a FA...especially a higher end FA.  The team recruited you.  It made certain promises.  It said you are a key to the direction we are going.

So, I don't really give a damn about Rondo or Odom.  Chandler was traded here twice and served out the terms of his contract both times.  Dallas tried to sign him to an oversized one year in 2012 and he turned it down.  Dallas unrealistically asked him to wait while they pursued bigger fish and he didn't.  

My focus (assuming I cared about this) would be on Vince, Monta, Parsons, Matthews, Barnes, Jordan and Wright.  I think Vince had a great experience here after being bought out by Phoenix.  Dallas did Parsons a huge favor by pretending to be interested in him when he hit the market a second time (ultimately signing that big contract with Memphis).  Monta opted out of his Dallas deal to sign with Indy.  To me, the real question is how do players feel about how Matthews, Barnes, Jordan and Wright were treated.

I'd say neither Matthews nor Barnes lived up to their billing and Dallas traded them just prior to them becoming free (or opting out).  Dallas rescued Jordan from a toxic situation and made him whole with the money he would have made had he stayed in LA.  The NY situation might have been a good one as he could have recruited KD there (if NY wasn't such a cesspool).  And, while Wright isn't a household name, trading him to Detroit to get serious minutes under his old coach seems a pretty good outcome.

I think if we are being honest, Dallas has churned its roster a good bit in recent years.  A couple of nut jobs didn't fit or get along with Carlisle.  No idea if players think poorly of Carlisle for that or Rondo and Odom.  Outside of the sheer volume of churning, I think it is hard to argue Dallas has treated people poorly (or been wrong about anyone).  Who has gone on from here to accomplish great things?  But most importantly in my mind is who should have had a different expectation than what they got here?

[madmavsgirl]

If his goal is to win multiple championships is there a better choice than the Mavs? Most of the other contenders either have Stars over 30 or will have to gut their team to get him. Milwaukee's front office isn't instilling confidence.

I mean it's still a huge longshot but maybe, just maybe a bit less of a longshot than 2 weeks ago.

[ClutchDirk]

https://i.redd.it/berui5bgkv461.jpg

[Mavs2019]

https://i.redd.it/berui5bgkv461.jpg

So they are trolling and Giannis will announce his supermax.

[ClutchDirk]

So they are trolling and Giannis will announce his supermax.

https://media.giphy.com/media/I6AHD4Px5nzGg/giphy.gif