A Few Thoughts on Mavs 109, Pacers 112

[ItsGoTime]

L2M report also says Myles Turner should have been called for a foul when Luka lost the ball. Turner hit his wrist.

So they call that foul, he makes 1 of 2 FTs and outcome is no different.

[omahen]

So they call that foul, he makes 1 of 2 FTs and outcome is no different.

Great to see such positive thinkers. Actually not. Score would be tied and Mavs would not need to foul Oladipo with less than 24 seconds to go. Not to mention confidence boost with finally scoring.

[ItsGoTime]

Great to see such positive thinkers.

Thanks man!

[mavsluvr]

Now Luka has a sprained right wrist, in addition to his sprained left thumb. No particulars on when he hurt it.

[mavsluvr]

"The refs did him no favors, calling him for a foul when his gather resulted in an elbow in his opponent's face, even though he had been hit in the back on the play."

This NBA obsession with rewarding flopping and drawing fouls by crowding up in an offensive player's body has to stop.  If a big player like Boban can be called for a foul by merely bringing up his arms for a shot, then all a defender has to do to take him out of the equation is just get his body right up against the offensive big.  At that point, there is just about no option for the big to do anything without making contact with the defender.

As usual, great synopsis.  I thought either Boban or WCS should have been in the game in those last three minutes when the Mavs were unable to score because at least we could have gotten the ball to them inside and draw defenders, which should have left somebody with a better look, or possibly allow WCS or Boban to draw a foul and get to the line.

Boban/WCS instead of Wright? So, a three-big lineup?

[Dahlsim]

"The refs did him no favors, calling him for a foul when his gather resulted in an elbow in his opponent's face, even though he had been hit in the back on the play."

This NBA obsession with rewarding flopping and drawing fouls by crowding up in an offensive player's body has to stop.  If a big player like Boban can be called for a foul by merely bringing up his arms for a shot, then all a defender has to do to take him out of the equation is just get his body right up against the offensive big.  At that point, there is just about no option for the big to do anything without making contact with the defender.

As usual, great synopsis.  I thought either Boban or WCS should have been in the game in those last three minutes when the Mavs were unable to score because at least we could have gotten the ball to them inside and draw defenders, which should have left somebody with a better look, or possibly allow WCS or Boban to draw a foul and get to the line.

Boban/WCS instead of Wright? So, a three-big lineup?

This is an example of a "grind mode" offense which all of the championship elite teams have, even the poster child of the small ball era, Golden State Warriors or the current NBA star studded Lakers who utilize Maverick cast-off Javale McGee and not-quite-washed-up-after-all Dwight Howard along with the long limbed super skilled Anthony Davis. 

The Lakers can grind a team up inside, bang on them, even use a guy like McGee to cheat foul a Maverick like they did Seth Curry, all different ways to win a game. 

I took the point there as not necessarily Boban/WCS instead of Wright but to have somebody at the 5 position that can get a high % shot inside and/or draw a foul and/or suck in the defense so that shooters like Luka, KP, THJ, Seth Curry etc. get a really good look during the clutch.

These big bodies also demand more attention and focus from the opponents front line player rather than leaving them free to disrupt and beat up the Mavericks stars and skilled players.  This not only increases the 'L' count but also can add to the injury body count for Dallas. 
Its alway seemed a bit crazy to me that otherwise genius coaches like Don Nelson, Mike D'Antoni and yes our own Rick Carlisle just never seem to have that in their play books.  
Fortunately the Mavericks 2011 Championship team had Tyson Chandler, Brendan Haywood and Ian Mahinmi all grinding inside and protecting Dirk, Kidd and company.  
Maybe Carlisle lucked into that big powerful front line and maybe the NBA championship went to his head so much that he decided he could fully do his offense any way he want to and declare the big man inside play dead and done. 

The fact remains, we're seeing how powered offenses that for some reason can be shut down just during the times when it matters most during games.

[ItsGoTime]

Dahlsim utilizing those stretchy long limbs to KILL it!

[mavsluvr]

"The refs did him no favors, calling him for a foul when his gather resulted in an elbow in his opponent's face, even though he had been hit in the back on the play."

This NBA obsession with rewarding flopping and drawing fouls by crowding up in an offensive player's body has to stop.  If a big player like Boban can be called for a foul by merely bringing up his arms for a shot, then all a defender has to do to take him out of the equation is just get his body right up against the offensive big.  At that point, there is just about no option for the big to do anything without making contact with the defender.

As usual, great synopsis.  I thought either Boban or WCS should have been in the game in those last three minutes when the Mavs were unable to score because at least we could have gotten the ball to them inside and draw defenders, which should have left somebody with a better look, or possibly allow WCS or Boban to draw a foul and get to the line.

Boban/WCS instead of Wright? So, a three-big lineup?

This is an example of a "grind mode" offense which all of the championship elite teams have, even the poster child of the small ball era, Golden State Warriors or the current NBA star studded Lakers who utilize Maverick cast-off Javale McGee and not-quite-washed-up-after-all Dwight Howard along with the long limbed super skilled Anthony Davis. 

The Lakers can grind a team up inside, bang on them, even use a guy like McGee to cheat foul a Maverick like they did Seth Curry, all different ways to win a game. 

I took the point there as not necessarily Boban/WCS instead of Wright but to have somebody at the 5 position that can get a high % shot inside and/or draw a foul and/or suck in the defense so that shooters like Luka, KP, THJ, Seth Curry etc. get a really good look during the clutch.

These big bodies also demand more attention and focus from the opponents front line player rather than leaving them free to disrupt and beat up the Mavericks stars and skilled players.  This not only increases the 'L' count but also can add to the injury body count for Dallas. 
Its alway seemed a bit crazy to me that otherwise genius coaches like Don Nelson, Mike D'Antoni and yes our own Rick Carlisle just never seem to have that in their play books.  
Fortunately the Mavericks 2011 Championship team had Tyson Chandler, Brendan Haywood and Ian Mahinmi all grinding inside and protecting Dirk, Kidd and company.  
Maybe Carlisle lucked into that big powerful front line and maybe the NBA championship went to his head so much that he decided he could fully do his offense any way he want to and declare the big man inside play dead and done. 

The fact remains, we're seeing how powered offenses that for some reason can be shut down just during the times when it matters most during games.

Just trying to get a sense of what the idea would look like. I don't remember Rick ever playing Chandler, Haywood and Mahinmi at the same time, although I might not remember every single 
experiment. 

The thing is, if you put Boban or WCS in, you don't get to just add him to the mix, you have to take someone else out. I thought he was suggesting luka/thj/maxi/kp/Boban-WCS as the closing lineup. It seems like you might substitute Boban-WCS for Maxi, and leave Wright in.

[Dahlsim]

"The refs did him no favors, calling him for a foul when his gather resulted in an elbow in his opponent's face, even though he had been hit in the back on the play."

This NBA obsession with rewarding flopping and drawing fouls by crowding up in an offensive player's body has to stop.  If a big player like Boban can be called for a foul by merely bringing up his arms for a shot, then all a defender has to do to take him out of the equation is just get his body right up against the offensive big.  At that point, there is just about no option for the big to do anything without making contact with the defender.

As usual, great synopsis.  I thought either Boban or WCS should have been in the game in those last three minutes when the Mavs were unable to score because at least we could have gotten the ball to them inside and draw defenders, which should have left somebody with a better look, or possibly allow WCS or Boban to draw a foul and get to the line.

Boban/WCS instead of Wright? So, a three-big lineup?

This is an example of a "grind mode" offense which all of the championship elite teams have, even the poster child of the small ball era, Golden State Warriors or the current NBA star studded Lakers who utilize Maverick cast-off Javale McGee and not-quite-washed-up-after-all Dwight Howard along with the long limbed super skilled Anthony Davis. 

The Lakers can grind a team up inside, bang on them, even use a guy like McGee to cheat foul a Maverick like they did Seth Curry, all different ways to win a game. 

I took the point there as not necessarily Boban/WCS instead of Wright but to have somebody at the 5 position that can get a high % shot inside and/or draw a foul and/or suck in the defense so that shooters like Luka, KP, THJ, Seth Curry etc. get a really good look during the clutch.

These big bodies also demand more attention and focus from the opponents front line player rather than leaving them free to disrupt and beat up the Mavericks stars and skilled players.  This not only increases the 'L' count but also can add to the injury body count for Dallas. 
Its alway seemed a bit crazy to me that otherwise genius coaches like Don Nelson, Mike D'Antoni and yes our own Rick Carlisle just never seem to have that in their play books.  
Fortunately the Mavericks 2011 Championship team had Tyson Chandler, Brendan Haywood and Ian Mahinmi all grinding inside and protecting Dirk, Kidd and company.  
Maybe Carlisle lucked into that big powerful front line and maybe the NBA championship went to his head so much that he decided he could fully do his offense any way he want to and declare the big man inside play dead and done. 

The fact remains, we're seeing how powered offenses that for some reason can be shut down just during the times when it matters most during games.

Just trying to get a sense of what the idea would look like. I don't remember Rick ever playing Chandler, Haywood and Mahinmi at the same time, although I might not remember every single 
experiment. 

The thing is, if you put Boban or WCS in, you don't get to just add him to the mix, you have to take someone else out. I thought he was suggesting luka/thj/maxi/kp/Boban-WCS as the closing lineup. It seems like you might substitute Boban-WCS for Maxi, and leave Wright in.

In that case, yes that's the sort of lineup I would envision to go into "grind it out" get physical inside mode for stretches of the game. 

I definitely see Maxi in front of both Boban and WCS terms of the rotation although I suppose there is some idea that perhaps if WCS performed well enough to fill the Powell role he would end up in front of Maxi.   Boban is rightly a career limited minutes man. 

Either way, when Maxi is subbed for WCS or Boban then you have more rugged team inside and still have a big rotation with KP and Luka along with any of the wings at 2 and 3.  Yes I'd stick with a more natural small forward like a Wright or DFS to balance the floor especially defensively. 

If you go with WCS you're more mobile and flexible on defense.  If you go with Boban you potentially put maximum pressure on the opponent offensively while hoping to bend but not break on defense. 

This coaching staff should be coaching WCS up on offense more, to be closer to Dwight Powell effectiveness.  They should also be coaching Boban up to be more aggressive on defense but as it stands its a rotation of Bigs that should be used more effectively supporting the 7ft+ Unicorn and big PG Luka just as Chandler/Haywood/Mahinmi supported the 7-foot Dirk and big guard Kidd.

[mavsluvr]

In that case, yes that's the sort of lineup I would envision to go into "grind it out" get physical inside mode for stretches of the game. 

I definitely see Maxi in front of both Boban and WCS terms of the rotation although I suppose there is some idea that perhaps if WCS performed well enough to fill the Powell role he would end up in front of Maxi.   Boban is rightly a career limited minutes man. 

Either way, when Maxi is subbed for WCS or Boban then you have more rugged team inside and still have a big rotation with KP and Luka along with any of the wings at 2 and 3.  Yes I'd stick with a more natural small forward like a Wright or DFS to balance the floor especially defensively. 

If you go with WCS you're more mobile and flexible on defense.  If you go with Boban you potentially put maximum pressure on the opponent offensively while hoping to bend but not break on defense. 

This coaching staff should be coaching WCS up on offense more, to be closer to Dwight Powell effectiveness.  They should also be coaching Boban up to be more aggressive on defense but as it stands its a rotation of Bigs that should be used more effectively supporting the 7ft+ Unicorn and big PG Luka just as Chandler/Haywood/Mahinmi supported the 7-foot Dirk and big guard Kidd

Thanks for that clarification, dahl. I like your lineup a lot more than trying to run out KP/Maxi/WCS in the same unit. 


I could see Rick breaking something like that out during a game. Indeed, maybe he already has. I'll try to keep more of an eye out for it.  He tends to go with the best five players available at the end of close games, and I get that. Wonder if he would have the courage to do something like that at the end of games that aren't within 5 points, but still haven't been decided. 

I usually put the brakes on myself in recommending that Bobi play more, because I'm not sure whether it really would be helpful basket-ball wise, or whether it's just my bias in enjoying watching him play, lol.

[mavsluvr]

I don’t care who you are or what team you follow - this is absolutely the best breakdowns in basketball.  I didn’t keep up with game but after reading I feel like I was in attendance.  

I’d rather read your post game than paid writers.  

Thanks for doing these all year long you are really good at it.  Wish my primary team had someone so well written!

Your work is appreciated!!

Thanks for the kind words, Thunder. 


I always feel caught up on OKC, due to your posts here.

[Dahlsim]

In that case, yes that's the sort of lineup I would envision to go into "grind it out" get physical inside mode for stretches of the game. 

I definitely see Maxi in front of both Boban and WCS terms of the rotation although I suppose there is some idea that perhaps if WCS performed well enough to fill the Powell role he would end up in front of Maxi.   Boban is rightly a career limited minutes man. 

Either way, when Maxi is subbed for WCS or Boban then you have more rugged team inside and still have a big rotation with KP and Luka along with any of the wings at 2 and 3.  Yes I'd stick with a more natural small forward like a Wright or DFS to balance the floor especially defensively. 

If you go with WCS you're more mobile and flexible on defense.  If you go with Boban you potentially put maximum pressure on the opponent offensively while hoping to bend but not break on defense. 

This coaching staff should be coaching WCS up on offense more, to be closer to Dwight Powell effectiveness.  They should also be coaching Boban up to be more aggressive on defense but as it stands its a rotation of Bigs that should be used more effectively supporting the 7ft+ Unicorn and big PG Luka just as Chandler/Haywood/Mahinmi supported the 7-foot Dirk and big guard Kidd

Thanks for that clarification, dahl. I like your lineup a lot more than trying to run out KP/Maxi/WCS in the same unit. 


I could see Rick breaking something like that out during a game. Indeed, maybe he already has. I'll try to keep more of an eye out for it.  He tends to go with the best five players available at the end of close games, and I get that. Wonder if he would have the courage to do something like that at the end of games that aren't within 5 points, but still haven't been decided. 

I usually put the brakes on myself in recommending that Bobi play more, because I'm not sure whether it really would be helpful basket-ball wise, or whether it's just my bias in enjoying watching him play, lol.

Not sure why it's so hard to see when and how this guy should be playing but you're not alone in wondering whether its 'basketball-wise'.  Some NBA coaches struggle with it too although Popovich and Doc Rivers were 2 that were particularly solid in sort of 'playing the odds' on Boban minutes.   
More strict system coaches it seems to me struggle with this.  The other factor is coaches that just don't want to tolerate potential defensive holes. 

As commentators both Derek Harper and Jason Terry have recently said they think he should get more opportunities, he could help the Mavericks. 

Boban has proven to be as efficient or even more than Shaquille O'neal on offense!  What's hard to understand there? 
The problem is on defense, moving his feet fast enough and protecting the rim aggressively.  He can only do so much about foot speed but IMO he should block more shots and register more 'hard fouls' to help his case on defense more.  
His rebounding and scoring though is a proven but over short minutes IF the plays run don't maximize him on offense then you might get a bad +/- . 
More often than not, its working in your favor.  This the way Doc Rivers put it, chances are at least as good that Boban will hurt the opponent on any given stretch more than they hurt you.  Most coaches will definitely go right at trying to exploit him defensively but that doesn't mean their stretch 5 is hot or they're scoring effectively against him.  Many times the Mavericks are just playing poor defensively in the clutch and in runs against no matter who's on the floor.

Meanwhile Bobi is getting up high % shot attempts, rebounds and racking up fouls against the opponent while still being a solid free throw shooter. Of course another problem is having him on the floor but not really taking advantage of his offense.  If you're going to do that you and just have it set up Giant picks 20 feet away from the basket then please by all means go with Maxi, WCS or anyone.

[mavsluvr]

Not sure why it's so hard to see when and how this guy should be playing but you're not alone in wondering whether its 'basketball-wise'.  Some NBA coaches struggle with it too although Popovich and Doc Rivers were 2 that were particularly solid in sort of 'playing the odds' on Boban minutes.   
More strict system coaches it seems to me struggle with this.  The other factor is coaches that just don't want to tolerate potential defensive holes. 

As commentators both Derek Harper and Jason Terry have recently said they think he should get more opportunities, he could help the Mavericks. 

Boban has proven to be as efficient or even more than Shaquille O'neal on offense!  What's hard to understand there? 
The problem is on defense, moving his feet fast enough and protecting the rim aggressively.  He can only do so much about foot speed but IMO he should block more shots and register more 'hard fouls' to help his case on defense more.  
His rebounding and scoring though is a proven but over short minutes IF the plays run don't maximize him on offense then you might get a bad +/- . 
More often than not, its working in your favor.  This the way Doc Rivers put it, chances are at least as good that Boban will hurt the opponent on any given stretch more than they hurt you.  Most coaches will definitely go right at trying to exploit him defensively but that doesn't mean their stretch 5 is hot or they're scoring effectively against him.  Many times the Mavericks are just playing poor defensively in the clutch and in runs against no matter who's on the floor.

Meanwhile Bobi is getting up high % shot attempts, rebounds and racking up fouls against the opponent while still being a solid free throw shooter. Of course another problem is having him on the floor but not really taking advantage of his offense.  If you're going to do that you and just have it set up Giant picks 20 feet away from the basket then please by all means go with Maxi, WCS or anyone

Thanks for your observations. Very thought-provoking. 


I think your last paragraph provides some food for thought. In order to maximize Boban's offense, you have to look for him and play a little differently. Which might well be called for, but maybe Rick is a bit risk-averse with respect to that at high-pressure parts of the game. And you are right, if you're not trying to optimize his offensive strengths, you might as well go with a better defensive player. I will continue to keep an eye on this.