Trade & FA 2023-24: Paul George to Test Free Agency After No Contract Extension

[SleepingHero]

Good catch, it could be easily solved though. Mavs could trade their 24 FRP 11-30 protected; if it doesnt convey by 2024 then Mavs send their unpr 26 FRP to BRK.

We can't trade our 2024 pick because the Knicks own it. Thats whats going to convey this year and finally extinguish the KP deal. If it doesn't convey this year then it becomes 2 2nd round picks. 

But until the draft we can't make any future deal involving picks 24, 25, 26, 28, and 30. Only 2027 is available. In the summer we can potentially use 25, 27, and 31 in a deal.

[Chicagojk]

Evan Sidery (@esidery)
The Hornets will be sellers at the trade deadline, per @JakeLFischer (https://sports.yahoo.com/toronto-appears...33967.html).

LaMelo Ball, Brandon Miller and Mark Williams are the only players not available in trade talks.

Keep an eye on Terry Rozier, PJ Washington, Gordon Hayward and Miles Bridges potentially being on the move.

What is the deal with Bridges?  Obviously the questions with him are off court.  But would a team trade for him?  What type of contract is he going to get this offseason?  Does Charlotte have any interest in bringing him back. 

Again, the main issues are his terrible acts off court.   Just with skillset though, he fits our needs.   Just not sure what franchise is going to take the heat for trading him or signing him.   Unfortunately, teams can have short memories if a guy can play.

[ACMFFL]

We can't trade our 2024 pick because the Knicks own it. Thats whats going to convey this year and finally extinguish the KP deal. If it doesn't convey this year then it becomes 2 2nd round picks. 

But until the draft we can't make any future deal involving picks 24, 25, 26, 28, and 30. Only 2027 is available. In the summer we can potentially use 25, 27, and 31 in a deal.

Technically we could move the 2024 pick with the proper wording by trading the rights on that 1st if it falls in the 1-10 range. 
2024 DAL 1st (1-10 to BRK, 11-30 to NYK; if the pick doesnt convey to the Brooklyn, Mavs will instead send their unprotected 2026 pick)
Yeah you're definitely right, in fact in that proposal Brooklyn got involved in order to allow the Mavs to unlock these 3 FRP (26,28,30)

[F Gump]

Technically we could move the 2024 pick by trading the rights on that 1st if it falls in the 1-10 range.

There is only one scenario for the Mavs to trade their 2024 FRP. And it isn't really usable.

2024 has been conveyed conditionally to NY - they get it if it lands 11-30. So you can't trade 11-30. 

And if it lands 1-10, it can't be traded due to the Stepien rule, since that would leave a scenario in which in 2 consecutive future drafts (2024 and 2025) the Mavs would possibly be without a FRP. So you can't trade 1-10.

There is one workaround, however (although it's not that useful). You can offer a pick swap for a different FRP in 2024, subject to the condition that Mavs have 1-10. So you can offer pick swap of 1-10 for a diff 2024 FRP, conditioned on having 1-10.

In light of where they are in the standings, that has no trade value. It won't push the needle on a trade to include such a nothing.

The Stepien rule also complicates 2026, since the Mavs might have traded 2025.

I would add one observation to the mix -- I don't think the Mavs would be very interested in any deal that leaves them without picks. In fact, I think they are more likely to add picks, or have picks coming back when they go out. The idea that they would be willing to do whatever they can to take them out of the draft for years doesn't feel correct. They need more pieces on the roster like Lively - kids who can make an impact - and I think they know it.

[ACMFFL]

What is the deal with Bridges?  Obviously the questions with him are off court.  But would a team trade for him?  What type of contract is he going to get this offseason?  Does Charlotte have any interest in bringing him back. 

Again, the main issues are his terrible acts off court.   Just with skillset though, he fits our needs.   Just not sure what franchise is going to take the heat for trading him or signing him.   Unfortunately, teams can have short memories if a guy can play.

Problem with Bridges, aside from his off court stuff, is that he has full no-trade clause and any team that trades for him will not receive his Bird Rights.

[ACMFFL]

There is only one scenario for the Mavs to trade their 2024 FRP. And it isn't really usable.

2024 has been conveyed conditionally to NY - they get it if it lands 11-30. So you can't trade 11-30. 

And if it lands 1-10, it can't be traded due to the Stepien rule, since that would leave a scenario in which in 2 consecutive future drafts (2024 and 2025) the Mavs would possibly be without a FRP. So you can't trade 1-10.

There is one workaround, however (although it's not that useful). You can offer a pick swap for a different FRP in 2024, subject to the condition that Mavs have 1-10. So you can offer pick swap of 1-10 for a diff 2024 FRP, conditioned on having 1-10.

In light of where they are in the standings, that has no trade value. It won't push the needle on a trade to include such a nothing.

I didnt think about it, thanks for the correction, appriciate it a lot! Then in order to "unlock" the 2026 pick the only way is to drop the protection on that NY pick giving them 1 SRP to make it happen.

And I agree with you, I didnt even pretend to consider it a serious trade proposal, it was just for the sake of argument.

[F Gump]

I didnt think about it, thanks for the correction, appriciate it a lot! Then in order to "unlock" the 2026 pick the only way is to drop the protection on that NY pick giving them 1 SRP to make it happen.

You're welcome!

As to the other, I don't think there is any realistically possible scenario in which the Mavs would hand another pick to NY, for essentially nothing. The Mavs need more picks, not fewer, and imo it just makes no sense to offer extra value (unprotecting a pick) and then paying to do so as well. FWIW we had these same conversations a year ago, about how the Mavs supposedly needed to pay BKN to turn the 2023 pick unprotected, but wouldn't that be doubly bad if it had happened, losing out on a top 10 pick and also giving up another pick?

I think the path is to simply wait until after the draft for anything that might require multiple picks, until the 2024 is conveyed to NY. Or, like other teams do, just use "pick swap" as one of your picks. But the Mavs need more talent, and the draft can be a path to get it that doesn't require giving up assets.

[Scott41theMavs]

There's discussion in the Discord of the Mavs being interested in Kuzma and Gafford. Folks there have suggested THJ, Holmes, Green, and '27 for those two.

Green is too much, given, as KL would say, "having to watch Kyle Kuzma in a Mavs' uniform." No more solidly does anyone fit in the Venn diagram juncture of "NBA player" and "douche" than Kyle Kuzma. But he would replace THJ's offensive production while being a slightly better fit. I'd be okay with the deal if it were THJ, Holmes, Hardy, and '27 for Kuzma and Gafford. If it's Green, then the Mavs would have to find a way to win the Grimes sweepstakes in their need for a POA defender while no longer having a FRP to trade.

[RasheedsBigWhiteSpot]

I didnt think about it, thanks for the correction, appriciate it a lot! Then in order to "unlock" the 2026 pick the only way is to drop the protection on that NY pick giving them 1 SRP to make it happen.

And I agree with you, I didnt even pretend to consider it a serious trade proposal, it was just for the sake of argument.

For the life of me I don't understand the need to send a positive assets to NY to make 2024 unprotected.  I argued this, ad nauseum, last season by saying that you never know how a season will play out and NY should, at least say "yep, we'll take it", as unprotected picks are ALWAYS more valuable.  In 2023, the Mavs hit an iceberg.  

Had the Knicks done this last year, giving the Mavs a late 2nd to do so, this is how it could've played out: 
A. the Mavs still missed the playoffs and NY got a ticket in the Wemby lotto
B.  the pick still landed NY Lively
C.  At worst, it would've been a very high non-lotto pick

Everyone here keeps negating the fact that NY is ONE SEASON away from that pick potentially converting to a 2nd rounder.  At this point the Knicks should jump at gaining immediate asset certainty and do what it can to gain an unprotected lotto pick this year, especially on a team like the Mavs built on only two players.

[BigDirk41]

There's discussion in the Discord of the Mavs being interested in Kuzma and Gafford. Folks there have suggested THJ, Holmes, Green, and '27 for those two.

Green is too much, given, as KL would say, "having to watch Kyle Kuzma in a Mavs' uniform." No more solidly does anyone fit in the Venn diagram juncture of "NBA player" and "douche" than Kyle Kuzma. But he would replace THJ's offensive production while being a slightly better fit. I'd be okay with the deal if it were THJ, Holmes, Hardy, and '27 for Kuzma and Gafford. If it's Green, then the Mavs would have to find a way to win the Grimes sweepstakes in their need for a POA defender while no longer having a FRP to trade.

I'm really not sure either way so it's probably a fair trade. I'm not sold on Kuzma, but some think he can help. He is probably a better fit as you mentioned. I could see the Mavs making this trade. I'm hoping there's better options though.

[mvossman]

There's discussion in the Discord of the Mavs being interested in Kuzma and Gafford. Folks there have suggested THJ, Holmes, Green, and '27 for those two.

Green is too much, given, as KL would say, "having to watch Kyle Kuzma in a Mavs' uniform." No more solidly does anyone fit in the Venn diagram juncture of "NBA player" and "douche" than Kyle Kuzma. But he would replace THJ's offensive production while being a slightly better fit. I'd be okay with the deal if it were THJ, Holmes, Hardy, and '27 for Kuzma and Gafford. If it's Green, then the Mavs would have to find a way to win the Grimes sweepstakes in their need for a POA defender while no longer having a FRP to trade.

I get the logic behind this, but I don't like Kuz and I really don't like his contract.

[ACMFFL]

You're welcome!

As to the other, I don't think there is any realistically possible scenario in which the Mavs would hand another pick to NY, for essentially nothing. The Mavs need more picks, not fewer, and imo it just makes no sense to offer extra value (unprotecting a pick) and then paying to do so as well. FWIW we had these same conversations a year ago, about how the Mavs supposedly needed to pay BKN to turn the 2023 pick unprotected, but wouldn't that be doubly bad if it had happened, losing out on a top 10 pick and also giving up another pick?

I think the path is to simply wait until after the draft for anything that might require multiple picks, until the 2024 is conveyed to NY. Or, like other teams do, just use "pick swap" as one of your picks. But the Mavs need more talent, and the draft can be a path to get it that doesn't require giving up assets.

Yeah I think they will likely stand pat cause there is nothing out there that's obtainable at a reasonable price.

I love the idea of turning a couple of pick swap into a 1st rounder. Do you think it's fair for both something like this?

DAL: 2024 LAC 1st.
OKC: best of 2026, 2028 DAL/OKC 1sts.

Clips pick is too less valuable? 2 swap aren't worth 1 potential late FRP?

[Mavs2021]

Maxi is a negative contract right now, Curry is neutral at best and Fournier is expiring.  Why would they pay 2 seconds for that deal?  I also doubt a bunch of seconds are enough for Hornets to take on bad contract and give up PJ.

Knicks are a team with a defensive-minded identity. Kleber could a plus defender on a good defensive team again. They need help at back-up PF/C. They also seem un-willing to pay Grimes, so Curry represents a cheap const-controlled replacement. That´s the reason the Knicks do it.

Nobody will give them Hornets a 1st for Washington, otherwise he would not be in Charlotte anymore. They have no real interest in him as a player imho. Otherwise the summer negotations don´t take this long. Washington likely wanted more money. So there is automatically some tension. The team is awful. He´s coming off the bench having a horrible season. The value is five 2nd round picks, of which I´d assess two for Holmes. But if it makes you feel better, we use Grant Williams instead. Buyer´s remorse swap, but then we keep at least Houstan and one of those 2nd round picks.

Atlanta traded Collins for Gay + 2nd. Washington is basically in the same boat. That´s the benchmark here. From that perspective it´s an overpay.

[mvossman]

Knicks are a team with a defensive-minded identity. Kleber could a plus defender on a good defensive team again. They need help at back-up PF/C. They also seem un-willing to pay Grimes, so Curry represents a cheap const-controlled replacement. That´s the reason the Knicks do it.

Nobody will give them Hornets a 1st for Washington, otherwise he would not be in Charlotte anymore. They have no real interest in him as a player imho. Otherwise the summer negotations don´t take this long. Washington likely wanted more money. So there is automatically some tension. The team is awful. He´s coming off the bench having a horrible season. The value is five 2nd round picks, of which I´d assess two for Holmes. But if it makes you feel better, we use Grant Williams instead. Buyer´s remorse swap, but then we keep at least Houstan and one of those 2nd round picks.

Atlanta traded Collins for Gay + 2nd. Washington is basically in the same boat. That´s the benchmark here. From that perspective it´s an overpay.

Maxi's issue is that he can't stay healthy.  Can't see that being any better with Thibodeau running him into the ground.  I doubt they want to take the risk of 3 years for a 32 year old who hasn't been able to stay on the court for two years.  I really don't think they want to pay assets for that gamble.

PJ is making roughly MLE while Collins is making 26 mil, so its not quite apples to apples.  I'm not sure how much he has tanked his value.  Before the season started he had legit value.  I don't think he is at Collins level yet.

And while we are at it, you have Orlando giving up an additional asset in the Timmy for WCJ trade.  My guess is that if anyone is kicking in something extra, its probably us.

[omahen]

Discussion of lifting protection from NY pick made some sense while it could allow Mavs to pay one more pick in a trade for a second star. Last season it would make the ability for Mavs to offer 2025, 2027 and 2029. Of course you only lift protections once you have the deal in place. Other teams have done it before, for example Milwaukee when trading for JRue.

It makes zero sense this season, as lifting protection doesn't give Mavs the ability to trade one more pick.

Washington and Collins situations are not comparable. Atlanta traded Collins for nothing to get out of tax. Charlotte has zero need to do that. I don't see a reason for them to just swap one mediocre player for a player, who is having even worse season (GW). I could see them more willing to do the trade for Holmes and FRP than for GW and SRP.

As for Washington. The rumor is they want (at least) 2 FRP for Kuzma and Gafford can also be seen as a positive contract. So discussions about some contracts, Hardy and one pick make little sense, imho. If you don't like the player, you don't trade for him. Mavs need to make one right move. Shuffling fifth best men will not make much of a difference, imho. If he is the right player, you pay the price.

[omahen]

Everyone here keeps negating the fact that NY is ONE SEASON away from that pick potentially converting to a 2nd rounder.  At this point the Knicks should jump at gaining immediate asset certainty and do what it can to gain an unprotected lotto pick this year, especially on a team like the Mavs built on only two players.

If our pick is not converted this season, it converts to top 10 protected 2025 pick. Only if that pick doesn't convert, it turns into 2025 SRP.

[omahen]

Not sure it makes sense for Mavs. If I understand correctly, team trading for Miles Bridges doesn't get his bird rights, which means Mavs have close to zero chance to resign him in the summer. Without that obstacle and his off the court stuff, he would be almost ideal for what Mavs need.

https://twitter.com/TheDunkCentral/statu...1007861968

[omahen]

Another rumor has NO being open to trade Jones. I find it highly unlikely. He has a decent contract and there are other ways to keep salary down than his MLE level deal. NO problem is that their stars don't really fit together well. Neither is a shooter or a decent defender. Move one of Ingram/Zion for a better fitting star and Jones contract is gold next to them.

I am not even sure, what would NO look for in such a deal. If their motivation is just to save money, they don't want a long term salary back, but a good player on a rookie deal. They already have enough picks.

But, if he was really available, he would be exactly what Mavs need.

https://twitter.com/TheDunkCentral/statu...9651437779

---

I don't understand this rumor about LA being interested in Dinwiddie. He is not better than Russel, basically same guy. Same report says they are looking for a shooter who is a positive defender, which description SD doesn't really fit.

https://twitter.com/TheDunkCentral/statu...2509843580

[ItsGoTime]

Not sure it makes sense for Mavs. If I understand correctly, team trading for Miles Bridges doesn't get his bird rights, which means Mavs have close to zero chance to resign him in the summer. Without that obstacle and his off the court stuff, he would be almost ideal for what Mavs need.

https://twitter.com/TheDunkCentral/statu...1007861968

This is where you trade for Hayward and Bridges and have the money to probably pay both (if we still want Hayward) in the offseason.
Edit:That’ll probably require the 27.

[DanSchwartzgan]

Not sure it makes sense for Mavs. If I understand correctly, team trading for Miles Bridges doesn't get his bird rights, which means Mavs have close to zero chance to resign him in the summer. Without that obstacle and his off the court stuff, he would be almost ideal for what Mavs need.

https://twitter.com/TheDunkCentral/statu...1007861968

Would a rental make sense?  Obviously the outgoing assets matter.  But, if we think OMax is the guy or if we think we are in line for someone better this summer, do you help yourself by winning more with Bridges this season while also helping build his value for Klutch?  They represent Lively and Hardy.

Would you do GWill/Hardy for Bridges/Richards if you knew Bridges was a rental?