Trade & FA 2023-24: OKC The Favorite For Nic Claxton Should He Leave BRK

[mvossman]

Actually, the way I’d do this is this:

LAL:  Rui/JHS/Unprotected 2027 out…Murray in
DAL:  THJ/Holmes/Top 3 protected 2027 out…Rui/Capela in
ATL:  Murray/Capela out…THJ/Holmes/JHS/2027-LAL/2027-DAL in

Capela and Rui are both Wasserman.  Murray puts another Klutch guy in LA.  Reeves stays out of the deal, but LA’s pick is unprotected and JHS has more size than someone like Hardy.  Dallas has all sorts of wings in Rui, OMax, GWill, DJJ, Exum and Green to mix and match with 48 minutes of center and 70 minutes of Luka/Kyrie.

And we are still basically sending out a first and spending over 20 mil of cap on a backup center.

If we are involved in a deal like this with Murray going out, I would rather send Kyrie to LA and land Murray ourselves.  Then maybe there would be less pressure to make win now moves and we could let this team grow a little bit.

[KillerLeft]

Then maybe there would be less pressure to make win now moves and we could let this team grow a little bit.

Totally agree with your post, and I'm honestly not sure the pressure exists anywhere but in the minds of some fans, even now.

[rocky164]

In theory sending out Kyrie to LAL and landing Murray makes a lot of sense and expands our timeline. However we have a functional locker room now compared to last year’s disaster. How much of that harmony will be lost if we lose Kyrie? Also, what would Luka think of such a deal? My guess is he’d rather have Kyrie. In my opinion any deal sending out Kyrie MUST have Luka’s full support or it is a non-starter.

[mvossman]

In theory sending out Kyrie to LAL and landing Murray makes a lot of sense and expands our timeline.  However we have a functional locker room now compared to last year’s disaster.  How much of that harmony will be lost if we lose Kyrie?  Also, what would Luka think of such a deal?  My guess is he’d rather have Kyrie.  In my opinion any deal sending out Kyrie MUST have Luka’s full support or it is a non-starter.

Agree with this.  As much as I think it would make sense to make that move, it needs to have Luka approval.  They clearly made a focused effort to make a better locker room for Luka and I think you can tell the difference.  Its why I would also be concerned with sending out GWill even though in a lot of these trades it would make sense.

[DanSchwartzgan]

And we are still basically sending out a first and spending over 20 mil of cap on a backup center.

If we are involved in a deal like this with Murray going out, I would rather send Kyrie to LA and land Murray ourselves.  Then maybe there would be less pressure to make win now moves and we could let this team grow a little bit.

I thought the Rui vs THJ “upgrade” was worth something more.  I’m not married to Top 3 vs. Top 10 or Lottery or whatever.  I try to think in terms of worst I’d do to see if it makes sense for the other team.  Most put in the least they want to do, but I often think the other team wouldn’t do that.  None of us ever nail these exactly, so hard to critique one approach over the other.

I agree with others.  Murray would be preferable from a timeline standpoint, but it would all depend on Luka’s opinion.  I did think Kyrie’s comment the other night about not holding back and coming out aggressive was kind of saying that deferring to Luka in Q1 makes if difficult for him to get going.  Truth doesn’t have to be a shot at someone or a sign of a worsening relationship.  It could just be truth.  It probably is difficult to hold back and pick your spots.  I imagine it is difficult for all sorts of players.

[Scott41theMavs]

I thought the Rui vs THJ “upgrade” was worth something more.  I’m not married to Top 3 vs. Top 10 or Lottery or whatever.  I try to think in terms of worst I’d do to see if it makes sense for the other team.  Most put in the least they want to do, but I often think the other team wouldn’t do that.  None of us ever nail these exactly, so hard to critique one approach over the other.

I agree with others.  Murray would be preferable from a timeline standpoint, but it would all depend on Luka’s opinion.  I did think Kyrie’s comment the other night about not holding back and coming out aggressive was kind of saying that deferring to Luka in Q1 makes if difficult for him to get going.  Truth doesn’t have to be a shot at someone or a sign of a worsening relationship.  It could just be truth.  It probably is difficult to hold back and pick your spots.  I imagine it is difficult for all sorts of players.

Rocky's observation above was spot on. I love the idea of swapping Ky for Murray, especially for defense and timeline. However, it's not just the locker room - and 1000% agree that Ky and GWill are the lynchpins of this year's locker room - but also panache and free agent attraction. Free agents seem to love Kyrie in spite of his repeated flakiness in off-court matters. Luka and Murray don't seem to have that - at all. As a matter of fact, it would behoove the Mavs to have Luka and Kyrie sit down for a beer or two and discuss roles. The mantra last year was "get Luka some help." Thanks to DP, it's the mantra this year too. But when Kyrie is healthy, Luka has to learn to let Kyrie help Luka shoulder some of the burden - even when they're both on the court. If Luka would simply knock off the heliocentric horseshit, that kills several birds with one stone: 1) gives Luka far more energy for the defensive end, on which he has shown great strides this year, to the extent that he can even become something of a difference-maker, 2) makes the rest of his teammates happy and gives them more active and exciting roles, 3) wins more games, since it's simply winning basketball, and 4) makes the Mavericks far more attractive to free agents.

A coach with half a brain cell would have sussed this a long time ago.

[dirkfansince1998]

Just cannot imagine that the Mavs are willing to move on from Kyrie. Maybe if he asks out (without publically ruining his value). Probably a pipe dream but like the Murray idea because it creates more flexibility on top of the obvious age/timeline advantage.
When we discussed forwards in the other thread one of the most common takes was that it has to be a plus defender. With someone like Murray instead of Kyrie I wouldn't feel as bad about some of the mentioned names with questionable defense (T.Harris, Bogdanovic, Markkanen).
Looking at the suggested Hawks trades I don't really understand why the Mavs would target Capela over someone like Hunter or Bey. Investing big money/assets in a backup big (would hate nothing more than benching Lively) instead of going after a potential starting SF/PF?

[Scott41theMavs]

Just cannot imagine that the Mavs are willing to move on from Kyrie. Maybe if he asks out (without publically ruining his value). Probably a pipe dream but like the Murray idea because it creates more flexibility on top of the obvious age/timeline advantage.
When we discussed forwards in the other thread one of the most common takes was that it has to be a plus defender. With someone like Murray instead of Kyrie I wouldn't feel as bad about some of the mentioned names with questionable defense (T.Harris, Bogdanovic, Markkanen).
Looking at the suggested Hawks trades I don't really understand why the Mavs would target Capela over someone like Hunter or Bey. Investing big money/assets in a backup big (would hate nothing more than benching Lively) instead of going after a potential starting SF/PF?

I understand that starting four is a greater need than backup five, but Dan (one of the smartest of us, tbh) has done well in outlining that his thought process is that the Mavs are 48-minutes-of-center-per-game-instead-of-24-minutes-of-center-per-game away from contention. I think they're still a step or two away from that, myself, but I understand the thought process. I also believe that we're far more likely to be able to trade for a starter next year, with two drafts picks instead of one, and with expiring contracts instead of contract deadweight, whereas what we can offer this year is more likely to be enough for a backup center.

[dirkfansince1998]

I understand that starting four is a greater need than backup five, but Dan (one of the smartest of us, tbh) has done well in outlining that his thought process is that the Mavs are 48-minutes-of-center-per-game-instead-of-24-minutes-of-center-per-game away from contention. I think they're still a step or two away from that, myself, but I understand the thought process. I also believe that we're far more likely to be able to trade for a starter next year, with two drafts picks instead of one, and with expiring contracts instead of contract deadweight, whereas what we can offer this year is more likely to be enough for a backup center.

Not sure if 48 minutes of rim running is enough to put the Mavs over the top. I have seen enough of Capela and similar bigs to have my doubts. Maybe a good move if the goal is to win 50 regular season games but come playoff time I can easily imagine that one of them is a DNP-schemed out of the game (I hope it won't be Lively). Leaving the Mavs with Maxi (if he ever returns) or Grant (super small).
If center minutes are what the Mavs need it has to be someone that can survive in the playoffs. Someone like Maxi. Just younger and healthy. Not easy to find. Maybe Stewart if Detroit still wants to add a couple of vets to right the ship. But it seems like the front office would prefer to move Bagley/Wiseman.

[omahen]

Rocky's observation above was spot on. I love the idea of swapping Ky for Murray, especially for defense and timeline. However, it's not just the locker room - and 1000% agree that Ky and GWill are the lynchpins of this year's locker room - but also panache and free agent attraction. Free agents seem to love Kyrie in spite of his repeated flakiness in off-court matters. Luka and Murray don't seem to have that - at all. As a matter of fact, it would behoove the Mavs to have Luka and Kyrie sit down for a beer or two and discuss roles. The mantra last year was "get Luka some help." Thanks to DP, it's the mantra this year too. But when Kyrie is healthy, Luka has to learn to let Kyrie help Luka shoulder some of the burden - even when they're both on the court. If Luka would simply knock off the heliocentric horseshit, that kills several birds with one stone: 1) gives Luka far more energy for the defensive end, on which he has shown great strides this year, to the extent that he can even become something of a difference-maker, 2) makes the rest of his teammates happy and gives them more active and exciting roles, 3) wins more games, since it's simply winning basketball, and 4) makes the Mavericks far more attractive to free agents.

A coach with half a brain cell would have sussed this a long time ago.

Don't you think you are very unfair? Luka and Mavs adjusted a lot this season. They are playing much faster and Luka reduced his usage rate significantly in the first part of the season, when Kyrie was healthy. They played exactly two gamea together after Kyrie injury and after Luka had to carry a team for 12 games. One game was a blowout loss and the other a blowout victory. Perhaps a couple of games are needed to adjust back...

---

Not sure if 48 minutes of rim running is enough to put the Mavs over the top. I have seen enough of Capela and similar bigs to have my doubts. Maybe a good move if the goal is to win 50 regular season games but come playoff time I can easily imagine that one of them is a DNP-schemed out of the game (I hope it won't be Lively). Leaving the Mavs with Maxi (if he ever returns) or Grant (super small).
If center minutes are what the Mavs need it has to be someone that can survive in the playoffs. Someone like Maxi. Just younger and healthy. Not easy to find. Maybe Stewart if Detroit still wants to add a couple of vets to right the ship. But it seems like the front office would prefer to move Bagley/Wiseman.

At least on my part I was clear that I don't want the Capela trade to reduce Mavs chances of getting the starting PF. Hunter or Bey are not that and trading for any of them would be a much bigger obstacle for that than trading for a center that Mavs also need.

[mvossman]

I thought the Rui vs THJ “upgrade” was worth something more.  

Is Rui an upgrade over THJ?  I think Timmy is the better player on a better contract.  Rui is younger and bigger so I can see the interest in a swap, but honestly I don't have a lot of interest in taking on that contract.

[RGP1981]

I think this would be a great roster.

1-5: Dejounte, Grimes, Luka, Kuzma or Avdija, Lively
6-10: Exum, THJ, DJJ/O-Max, Kleber/G-Will, Sims/Kleber

- Dejounte and Grimes give the team two excellent POA and perimeter defenders at both guard positions.
- Grimes ability to move off-ball and shoot the three is needed to balance out Murray.
- 4 players in the starting 5 (except Lively) can put the ball on the floor and do things.
- Kuzma or Avdija are better fits at PF than G-Will or DJJ because of length.
- Luka can be more easily hid on defense at all times.
- Sims is a more natural replacement or backup for Lively than Powell.
- Keep Kleber in case he returns to form. If not, G-Will and Sims can play instead of him at PF and C.

So to make this roster, these guys are available to use in trades: Kyrie, Josh Green, Holmes, Hardy, Powell, Curry, Morris.

[juanc]

Can we please stop with the idea of swapping Kyrie with Murray. Kyrie is a far superior player to Dejounte, we finally got a second star to pair with Luka and now we want to trade him... WHY!?

[Jason Terry]

Kyrie is the leader of this team. Luka loves Kyrie. Nico and Kyrie have a long deep relationship. NBA players in general unarguably love Kyrie. Kyrie is not going anywhere. Luka and Kyrie believe we can win a championship this season

Holmes never really had a chance here. There must be some sort of work ethic issue or something else behind the scenes preventing him from playing. It’s a disappointment because we really need another option at center. Regardless, he needs to go and we need another option

Holmes and a 2nd for Olynyk

I don’t think the Jazz do this. They should be able to get better offers. I’m having a hard time finding any Holmes-for-a-big deals that make sense

If Siakam only wants Philly and we can’t find a good swap using Hardaway, then there may not be a good move out there for us. May be we waive Morris and sign a bought out Biyombo type player. We have a good squad as it stands

[KillerLeft]

Not sure if 48 minutes of rim running is enough to put the Mavs over the top. I have seen enough of Capela and similar bigs to have my doubts. Maybe a good move if the goal is to win 50 regular season games but come playoff time I can easily imagine that one of them is a DNP-schemed out of the game (I hope it won't be Lively). Leaving the Mavs with Maxi (if he ever returns) or Grant (super small).
If center minutes are what the Mavs need it has to be someone that can survive in the playoffs. Someone like Maxi. Just younger and healthy. Not easy to find. Maybe Stewart if Detroit still wants to add a couple of vets to right the ship. But it seems like the front office would prefer to move Bagley/Wiseman.

I love you.

[StrandedOnBeauboisHill]

Shams just said on FanDuel TV that the Mavs have done their due diligence on both Siakam and Jerami Grant and determined the price tags were too high for them but still determined to upgrade PF.

[Mavs2021]

Shams just said on FanDuel TV that the Mavs have done their due diligence on both Siakam and Jerami Grant and determined the price tags were too high for them but still determined to upgrade PF.

Good decision. I think we can do with a combination like PJ Washington/Capela. We need a PF that can put the ball on the floor a little, score for himself and be sufficient on (help) defense. Imho that fits Washington perfectly. And we desperately need a rebounding back-up big more than a rim-rolling big. Capela is 3rd in REB/36.

Imho they could make us a viable play-off threat at full strength without selling the house. Of course it all depends how reasonable going nowhere Charlotte and Atlanta are.

[RoyTarpleysGhost]

Dejounte Murray quit playing defense years ago. Still has that reputation among some people. Yeah he’s younger and taller than Kyrie but not really worth the organizational shakeup.

I have the same question about Jerami Grant. Is he willing to go back to playing defense? Seems like once guys hit 20 points per game, most of them forget about the other end.

Nuggets had three guys in Aaron Gordon, KCP, and Brown that didn’t fancy themselves as stars and bought into their roles.

[StrandedOnBeauboisHill]

Terrified that we’ll start hearing Draymond/Mavs rumblings soon.

[HAguiar95]

IMO the PF is probably DFS/Collins. With us using THJ/Holmes as fillers and Hardy/O-Max as incentive.