Trade & FA 2023-24: Booker Likes NYK? Vogel Out? Suns Imploding?

[F Gump]

A note about Siakam ....

In looking back at some of the articles about PS in the past 6 months, one note stood out, which I think we need to consider. He said that he didn't want to be traded, and also said that he would definitely refuse to re-sign with any team who traded for him. That likely was related to his desire for a 35% of cap supermax deal.

Obviously he was trying to force TOR to keep him, which would leave the door open for him to get the deal he wants.

There are several relevant takeaways ....
1 His attitude toward any team that trades for him is a big deal. Has it changed?
2 Contract means a lot to him.
3 Is supermax important enough, all by itself, that it offers a creative avenue to an extend-and-trade? 

Outside of Toronto giving him that amount this summer (if he qualifies), he will first hit 35% eligibility after the 2025-26 season.

If he signs a 2-year deal (extension) this summer (or with a trade), his next contract comes in summer 2026, with him eligible for 35%. So his next 4 years starting this summer would be at 30, 30, 35, 35.
If he signs a 4-year deal this summer, his next contract comes in summer 2028, and his next 4 years starting this summer would be at 30, 30, 30, 30.

Is "we have a way to get you a supermax sooner" a feasible way to land an extend-and-trade with PS, if he's on the trade market?

[omahen]

A note about Siakam ....

In looking back at some of the articles about SP in the past 6 months, one note stood out, which I think we need to consider. He said that he didn't want to be traded, and also said that he would definitely refuse to re-sign with any team who traded for him. That likely was related to his desire for a 35% of cap supermax deal.

Obviously he was trying to force TOR to keep him, which would leave the door open for him to get the deal he wants.

There are several relevant takeaways ....
1 His attitude toward any team that trades for him is a big deal. Has it changed?
2 Contract means a lot.
3 Is supermax important enough, all by itself, that it offers a creative avenue to an extend-and-trade? 

Outside of Toronto giving him that amount this summer (if he qualifies), he will first hit 35% eligibility after the 2025-26 season.

If he signs a 2-year deal (extension) this summer (or with a trade), his next contract comes in summer 2026, with him eligible for 35%. So his next 4 years starting this summer would be at 30, 30, 35, 35.
If he signs a 4-year deal this summer, his next contract comes in summer 2028, and his next 4 years starting this summer would be at 30, 30, 30, 30.

Is "we have a way to get you a supermax sooner" a feasible way to land an extend-and-trade with PS, if he's on the trade market?

I don't think Siakam is supermax worth. It would also be a bit problematic after Doncic gets his supermax. But, if Siakam is the one player that makes Mavs a contender, I wouldn't oppose it. Meaning, if Mavs get at least one title after the trade, it was fully worth it. If not, it would be of course a fail. It would take more contracts to make the trade happen, but still doable. Toronto would need to be sure they get at least same level of assets compared to trading him at TDL.

I don't mind waiting for him for half a year, if they would have a "wink, wink" deal with Toronto and Siakam. Mavs still imho need Lively to get a bit of an experience, so I don't think they become a serious contender this season, even if they add Siakam. Sure, they would have a chance if things would go right, but a lot of things would need to go right.

As a final note. I don't think such a wink, wink deal would be realistic. Too risky for all parties as each of them could change their mind, leaving the other two partners with nothing.

[Mapka]

I don't think Siakam is supermax worth. It would also be a bit problematic after Doncic gets his supermax. But, if Siakam is the one player that makes Mavs a contender, I wouldn't oppose it. Meaning, if Mavs get at least one title after the trade, it was fully worth it. If not, it would be of course a fail. It would take more contracts to make the trade happen, but still doable. Toronto would need to be sure they get at least same level of assets compared to trading him at TDL.

I don't mind waiting for him for half a year, if they would have a "wink, wink" deal with Toronto and Siakam. Mavs still imho need Lively to get a bit of an experience, so I don't think they become a serious contender this season, even if they add Siakam. Sure, they would have a chance if things would go right, but a lot of things would need to go right.

As a final note. I don't think such a wink, wink deal would be realistic. Too risky for all parties as each of them could change their mind, leaving the other two partners with nothing.

SnT would be his normal Max, not the Supermax.

[Jason Terry]

Of all the feasible moves out there a Hardaway for Isaac swap makes the most sense. They are polar opposite players. We would get a glimpse of what it’s like to actually play big. There would be a drop in offense. But how much? And would it be worth it net rating for the added defense, length and rebounding. If it works we could double down on adding size in the offseason with all our assets still available. It would be a low risk safe move

Siakam is worth it at the right price point. And if we’re ready to lock into that big 3 then let’s do it. We wouldn’t be totally all in and could still pivot before Luka’s extension. But, it’s possible in a new CBA landscape that the 3 star method is not the way to go and that 2 stars and a ton of elite depth is better with Luka

[omahen]

Of all the feasible moves out there a Hardaway for Isaac swap makes the most sense. They are polar opposite players. We would get a glimpse of what it’s like to actually play big. There would be a drop in offense. But how much? And would it be worth it net rating for the added defense, length and rebounding. If it works we could double down on adding size in the offseason with all our assets still available. It would be a low risk safe move

Siakam is worth it at the right price point. And if we’re ready to lock into that big 3 then let’s do it. We wouldn’t be totally all in and could still pivot before Luka’s extension. But, it’s possible in a new CBA landscape that the 3 star method is not the way to go and that 2 stars and a ton of elite depth is better with Luka

I think Isaac is far worse player than THJ, but I agree he fits to Dallas better positionally and final result could even be better than with THJ. The trade would screw up Orlando cap space for next season - I am not sure what their summer plans are. 

I would be for the trade if Orlando attaches a protected FRP and of course nothing good (like Siakam) is on the table at TDL. It would give Mavs much more flexibility for the summer.

[F Gump]

I don't think Siakam is supermax worth. It would also be a bit problematic after Doncic gets his supermax. But, if Siakam is the one player that makes Mavs a contender, I wouldn't oppose it. Meaning, if Mavs get at least one title after the trade, it was fully worth it. If not, it would be of course a fail. It would take more contracts to make the trade happen, but still doable. Toronto would need to be sure they get at least same level of assets compared to trading him at TDL.

I don't mind waiting for him for half a year, if they would have a "wink, wink" deal with Toronto and Siakam. Mavs still imho need Lively to get a bit of an experience, so I don't think they become a serious contender this season, even if they add Siakam. Sure, they would have a chance if things would go right, but a lot of things would need to go right.

As a final note. I don't think such a wink, wink deal would be realistic. Too risky for all parties as each of them could change their mind, leaving the other two partners with nothing.

I must have written something wrong. I'm talking about a trade now, with the sort of assets already being discussed, that includes an extension. In theory you could give the extension in the summer, after trading for him and risking competitors, but I would not. That choice doesn't solve the problems of "I won't re-sign with you" and of the competitors in FA.

I agree that an under-the-table agreement is not a good idea. I don't even know how that would work.

The dollar value of an extend-and-trade is a tad smaller than a 2-year max as a FA, but not by a big amount, and it puts him in the same dollar vicinity as both Kyrie and Luka. And the 2 years is a quicker route for him getting to 35% eligibility for the next deal.
.... As a side note, that doesn't mean he will get 35% in 2 years, but the point he needs to hear is that it's way more likely to be available for him in 2 years rather than 4. And if he's a good fit with Luka, Kyrie, and Lively, it would raise his market value, thus increasing the likelihood

As for how all those max contracts could possibly fit, this would have the Mavs playing the "jump into over-apron territory with big raises" and then stay a while. It can work if you have enough talent already collected.

[omahen]

I must have written something wrong. I'm talking about a trade now, with the sort of assets already being discussed. I agree that an under-the-table agreement is not a good idea. I don't even know how that would work.

My thought was focused on finding an incentive for him to agree to adding 2 years as he is traded now. The dollar value of an extend-and-trade is a tad smaller than a 2-year max as a FA, but not by a big amount, and it puts him in the same dollar vicinity as both Kyrie and Luka. And the 2 years gets him to 35% eligibility for the next deal.

If you are thinking of a sign-and-trade later, that delays him getting to supermax numbers. Those deals must be for 3 or 4 years, not two. But that was not what I am talking about.

Sorry, I missunderstood. I think Siakam would carry way too much risk if someone would still offer him a supermax at age 31. I think that is why he wants the max deal in the summer, being likely his last really big deal.

[surfpuckmd]

Wonder what it means.  G-league?  Trade?  He's just unhappy about how Kidd is limiting his minutes?

Regardless, his performance this season has been disappointing.  I was so impressed with him at the end of last season that I thought we had a future offensive star on our hands.  Most of my optimism on Hardy has melted.

[omahen]

Dallas mentioned twice in these hypothetical trades:
1. Caruso for Green and 2026 pick (note: Mavs can't trade 2026 pick, but can trade 2027 one)
2. Siakam for GW, JG, Hary, Holmes, 1 FRP and 1 SRP

I would certainly do the Siakam deal. Perhaps also Caruso one, although I don't think he makes us a contender. Mavs could perhaps still do the right deal with remaining assets in the summer.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1010...e-deadline

[KillerLeft]

A note about Siakam ....

In looking back at some of the articles about PS in the past 6 months, one note stood out, which I think we need to consider. He said that he didn't want to be traded, and also said that he would definitely refuse to re-sign with any team who traded for him. That likely was related to his desire for a 35% of cap supermax deal.

Obviously he was trying to force TOR to keep him, which would leave the door open for him to get the deal he wants.

There are several relevant takeaways ....
1 His attitude toward any team that trades for him is a big deal. Has it changed?
2 Contract means a lot to him.
3 Is supermax important enough, all by itself, that it offers a creative avenue to an extend-and-trade? 

Outside of Toronto giving him that amount this summer (if he qualifies), he will first hit 35% eligibility after the 2025-26 season.

If he signs a 2-year deal (extension) this summer (or with a trade), his next contract comes in summer 2026, with him eligible for 35%. So his next 4 years starting this summer would be at 30, 30, 35, 35.
If he signs a 4-year deal this summer, his next contract comes in summer 2028, and his next 4 years starting this summer would be at 30, 30, 30, 30.

Is "we have a way to get you a supermax sooner" a feasible way to land an extend-and-trade with PS, if he's on the trade market?

I believe that is slightly out of date info. I remember the news you're referring to, the obvious motivation at the time being to maintain hope of a supermax from Toronto. 

I don't have time to check around for links right now, and so maybe I'm wrong, but my sense is that his posture has changed since then. My understanding is that he is now resigned to the idea that he's going to be traded, and has leaked that he won't extend. This was stated generally, but my guess is that it was intended as a negotiation-through-the-media response to a specific suitor who was trying what you're suggesting: angling for the extend-and-trade option. 

Past that, there have been recent rumors (I believe) that he has outright said he won't re-sign in ATLANTA, specifically. My interpretation (and some others') is that the other teams negotiating (presumably Philly, Dallas and maybe Sacramento, depending on who you believe) have been purposefully left out of that note, creating the silent implication that he's open to those destinations.

Maybe not, though. I could be way wrong. But, I did see the other day that Dallas is the betting odds-on favorite to get him. I tend to think there are reasons behind money movement like that.

[Scott41theMavs]

I did see the other day that Dallas is the betting odds-on favorite to get him. I tend to think there are reasons behind money movement like that.

If we want Siakam, let's hope it's insider trading.  

[KillerLeft]

If we want Siakam, let's hope it's insider trading.  

Then again, I think they have the best odds to trade for Draymond Green, too, so maybe Vegas just thinks Dallas is desperate for a trade. 

Personally, I am not desperate for a trade, though I admit I'm getting kind of excited for this Siakam thing.

[Mavs2021]

I would hate to trade Kyrie for Reaves and Hachimura and a first.  That would be almost as bad as the Porzingis trade.

Which one.

[KillerLeft]

Which one.

The FIRST one was the mistake, not the second. 

They're STILL paying down the first one.

[surfpuckmd]

The FIRST one was the mistake, not the second. 

They're STILL paying down the first one.

I must disagree violently.

The Wizards stole him from us then the Celtics stole him from the Wizards.

Porzingis is scoring 20 ppg on the league's best team on tremendous efficiency.  He rebounds and blocks shots.  He's the Celtics 2nd-best player on EPM and top-15 in the entire NBA on EPM.  He was pretty great last season on a bad team and now is even better on the league's best team.  The problem was us.  

We traded him for a pile of crap.  I think that remains one of the worst trades in Mavericks history.

I believe we traded him because he didn't fit well with Luka and Luka probably didn't like him personally.   

I think a more mature Luka could make it work.  In fact, if we could somehow magically add him to this roster, we'd be a top-5 contender in the NBA.

[KillerLeft]

I must disagree violently.

The Wizards stole him from us then the Celtics stole him from the Wizards.

He's the worst. I'm glad he's gone.

I miss Dinwiddie (whom I never wanted) much more than I miss Porzingis, and he will be the reason that Boston team fails, I promise. Too slow. Too soft. Couldn't guard the pick and roll if his life depended on it.

[SleepingHero]

NBACentral (@TheDunkCentral)
The Toronto Raptors are expected to trade Pascal Siakam before the trade deadline, per @TimBontemps

“League sources expect Toronto to move on from two-time All-Star forward Pascal Siakam before the trade deadline.”

[SleepingHero]

From Jake Fischer

“Other teams mentioned, such as Dallas and Philadelphia, don’t appear as viable destinations at this juncture, although Toronto officials have suggested to inquiring front offices as many as 10 teams hold legitimate interest in Siakam, sources said.”
“Dallas has long rebuffed inquiries for Josh Green, sources said, fresh off a 3-year, $41 million extension that begins in 2024-25.”

---

The Sacramento Kings have made Harrison Barnes, Kevin Huerter and Davion Mitchell available for trade, per @JakeLFischer

---

“Of late, Atlanta has informed numerous teams the only untouchable players on the Hawks’ roster are Young and rising third-year forward Jalen Johnson, sources said.”

[F Gump]

The conversation about KP reminds me of a truth which I'm not sure has been mentioned, and I certainly have not been considering it, but that is very relevant.

Which is, Cuban's bias is to trade for star-level players who could fit the Mavs roster, if he thinks they are available and can be bought at a reasonable price. (And sometimes, even if the price is somewhat ridiculous.)

PS certainly seems to fit all those boxes.

[Chicagojk]

https://x.com/shamscharania/status/17433...01078?s=46&t=iwQP5yZoJF3Ulzfb9MH7Cg

Would be a strong lynchpin in a Siakam trade. Question what else would GS need to offer?