Trade & FA 2023-24: Booker Likes NYK? Vogel Out? Suns Imploding?

[mvossman]

I'm 100% for this. I love Caruso. He's a winning player. As to packages I'm also coming up short on a realistic deal that doesn't involve the '27 first but I'm not sure Caruso alone is worth that given his injury history and general offensive production.

So I'm leaning more towards an overpay for Lavine+Caruso to make it worth.

Lavine+Caruso+Drummond for THJ+Maxi+Holmes+Hardy+Morris+2027 1st and 2031 first.

Saves the Bulls 10 mil this year and they get 2 firsts for Lavine.

Long shot but who knows?

I'm having a hard time seeing how Luka/Kyrie/Lavine is supposed to work, especially defensively.  Also, I don't think we can trade 31 yet?

[SleepingHero]

I'm having a hard time seeing how Luka/Kyrie/Lavine is supposed to work, especially defensively.  Also, I don't think we can trade 31 yet?

Can trade a 1st 7 years out. So I suppose this deal would have to wait till 2024? 

I also agree the defense would be an issue with that trio. But is it any worse than Luka/Kyrie/THJ? 

They're also getting Caruso in that deal who is a fantastic defender. 

To be honest I think the only issue with the deal is that it's pretty unrealistic for the Bulls to accept

[sterlingmallory]

The Legends drafted Jack White so he'll be playing for the Mavericks' G-league affiliate.  There is some talent there.  Very athletic wing who rebounds and plays defense.  He has been a below-average shooter in college and internationally but hit 41% last year in limited G-league games last season.   He also averaged almost 10 rebounds per game last year in G-league.  He was the Thunder's final cut on their roster.  They cut Usman Garuba and traded Jeremiah Robinson Earl before they cut Jack White.  The Thunder roster is stocked with talent and I am fine with taking their leftovers.

He's already 26 years but if the 3-point shot can improve, there's a poor-man's Josh Hart in there.  I like how the Mavs are filling the Legends with athletic wings who have the potential to become decent NBA role players.  I think there's a good chance Jack White earns a two-way contract shortly.  Also, he's Australian.  The Mavs seem to like Australians.  Small but smart move.

The Legends traded the rights for Jack White on draft day, unfortunately.

https://texas.gleague.nba.com/news/legen...erall-pick

[Mapka]

I'm having a hard time seeing how Luka/Kyrie/Lavine is supposed to work, especially defensively.  Also, I don't think we can trade 31 yet?

The bigger problem is, we can't take on so much money.

[SleepingHero]

The bigger problem is, we can't take on so much money.

That trade leaves the Mavs total roster salary of 169 mil, well below the 172 mil limit they have to stay under this season.

[RGP1981]

Yuck, do not want Lavine with Kyrie on the roster.

It's early days but Rui Hachimura and Max Christie have not seen much playing time on the Lakers. They are two good young players with a well-rounded skill set. The Lakers look like they need a shooter, which THJ is.

THJ and DJJ out ($17,897,728 + $2,019,706)... Rui and Max in ($15,740,741 + $1,719,864).

1-5: Kyrie, Green, Luka, Hachimura, Lively
6-10: Exum, Christie, O-Max, G-Will, Kleber
11-15: Seth, Hardy, Morris, Powell, Holmes

[SkenfromLMF]

Yuck, do not want Lavine with Kyrie on the roster.

It's early days but Rui Hachimura and Max Christie have not seen much playing time on the Lakers. They are two good young players with a well-rounded skill set. The Lakers look like they need a shooter, which THJ is.

THJ and DJJ out ($17,897,728 + $2,019,706)... Rui and Max in ($15,740,741 + $1,719,864).

1-5: Kyrie, Green, Luka, Hachimura, Lively
6-10: Exum, Christie, O-Max, G-Will, Kleber
11-15: Seth, Hardy, Morris, Powell, Holmes

December before you can trade DJJ...

[SleepingHero]

Lakers only want 1 guy on the Mavs roster and he's named after a city here.

I really do wonder if the Pacers would be interested in a Buddy for THJ swap just so they can avoid his upcoming extension...?

As an aside, we really do have a glut of guards burning a hole on our bench. Luka+Kyrie are going to get their 35 mpg.

Between Green, THJ, Curry, Hardy, and Exum, I think we got to move at least 2 and shore up PF/SF.

[ItsGoTime]

Lakers only want 1 guy on the Mavs roster and he's named after a city here.

I really do wonder if the Pacers would be interested in a Buddy for THJ swap just so they can avoid his upcoming extension...?

As an aside, we really do have a glut of guards burning a hole on our bench. Luka+Kyrie are going to get their 35 mpg.

Between Green, THJ, Curry, Hardy, and Exum, I think we got to move at least 2 and shore up PF/SF.

YES. I would say, I think with GWill, Maxi, DJJ and OMax we have little reason for another PF and think the C and SF spots are the real need. Lively’s play just solidifies my want to have the C minutes shored up. With GWill and DJJ we have 2 good candidates for small ball C (probably even Maxi, but he has looked rooooough for 2 games too).

I’ve got to say, with Luka and Kyrie, we really need a defense that is less about switching and more about protecting the rim. Luka has moved his feet well the first 2 games, but it’s hard to imagine that keeping up all season. With that probably being the case, the more height we can get to close in on a player driving might make a better case than Green. I’m not saying fully give up on the perimeter, but the hand we’re dealt is one that that is kinda happening anyway (not that we’re fully giving up on the perimeter, but we’ll never have the starting personnel to fully cover it with our 2 starting G’s). Stop something is basically what I’m saying.

[Chicagojk]

The Legends traded the rights for Jack White on draft day, unfortunately.

https://texas.gleague.nba.com/news/legen...erall-pick

I actually recognize names on our G-league team.    May be pretty decent with some veterans who have played with each other before (Jackson, Bradley and Theo all played on the UNC Championship team).   I found it interesting that Mike Miles is on the G-league team.   Sort of weird.  Did we know what happened there?  I would think if you lose your two way spot that you would look somewhere else.    I actually would like to see more of him.

[KillerLeft]

Sorry if this has been covered, but I'm interested in Toronto's situation. One or both of Siakim and Annunoby are going to be on the market this year. That seems inevitable. Now, the main obstacle there is the insane sticker price Ujiri tends to place on his talent, but let's assume for a second that those prices drop down into the Mavs' price range at some point soon (far, far from a given): which one do we want?

Siakim is the better player and the bigger name. He also represents a lot more near-future risk for Toronto, contract wise, so I think he's the most likely to get moved in a world where Toronto doesn't love the offers they're getting. He also satisfies Dan's itch of acquiring someone who pushes Grant Williams to the bench. I think that's a premature selling short of Williams, but I can kind of see where he's coming from and can't deny that Siakim is a better player than GWill (at least in some ways), despite my suspicion that the things people find limiting in Williams' game are the things that make him an ideal fit with Luka. He DOES have the mentality of a role player, so he WILL focus on defense, and he IS "just" a shooter from to a certain extent, but that IS what makes him ideal with Luka and a pick and roll big like Lively. I actually think the coming months will teach us that Williams has more potential than we think, but I can't deny that Siakim has more offensive variety and agency in his bag. Just not sure that's necessarily a step forward. Synergy is so, so important.

OG CAN play the 4, certainly, but can also play a little 3. I think it's super clear that if he were here right now, he'd take the starting spot currently occupied by DJJ, and probably the closing spot currently held by Green. I continue to believe they wanted O-Max to win DJJ's part of that and so in a very real way, THAT is where I believe THE MAVS think their current biggest hole is. But, what does that acquisition do to Green? What does it do to O-Max? Does it stifle progress for either of them? Do we care? Is there room for all three to thrive, and is it possible that OG could eventually be the starting 4, if Dan is ultimately correct that Williams, not Green, will be the weakest link in the closing 5?

I have been on the Siakim to Dallas bandwagon for years, but I think given where things are right now I'm finally leaning OG. Not 100% sure though. Obviously, neither will be a Maverick because the Mavericks haven't learned to collect picks in a big pile to have available for times like this, but it's still fun to think about.

Discuss.

[omahen]

I would prefer OG than Siakam. Both are expiring and their prices should go down. Mavs weakness is, they don't have expiring salary to offer.

From the minutes perspective, I think it is very simple. THJ would be the outgoing salary, so incoming player (assume OG) would get those 30 minutes. Green keeps his and DJJ minutes can be passed to Omax in a limited bench role. Minutes are available, they would just need to rework the rotations.

[StrandedOnBeauboisHill]

He also satisfies Dan's itch of acquiring someone who pushes Grant Williams to the bench.

Wasn't most of this based on the assumption that Green would be starting?  Feels like (after only 3 games mind you) that replacing DJJ is quickly becoming the priority because the Mavs plan to use Green as a high level bench piece which the board I think is starting to come around to (I am at least).

I think Siakim's next contract is going to be too insane to be worth it so I certainly lean OG.  I think having Williams/OG/Green on the roster allows you to deploy multiple two-way(ish) wings that you can size up or down however you please given that Williams can really play 3/4 and even 5 in a pinch the same way DFS did, OG feels like a 3/4 tweener and Josh is more of a 2/3 tweener.  I think OG brings a lot more on defense than Siakim does and given that offense is never an issue with Luka on the floor (I know we get complaints on how we score on this board from time to time but I've always thought those are really nitpicky given that we always are putting up crazy ORating numbers year in and year out), I would certainly think he's the better play at this time.

The problem is cost.  I've mentioned before but I would say what the Mavs are hoping to use as trade assets would be some combo of Hardaway/Holmes/Maxi/Hardy/OMax/draft capital and I would assume DJJ is not off limits as well assuming we're targeting a wing.  I do feel that OG is going to have enough of a market that the price will require OMax/Hardy/2027 just to get into the discussion.  Philly and the Knicks are going to be shopping their draft capital hard this February so it's going to be incredibly difficult to compete with their warchests.

[KillerLeft]

I would prefer OG than Siakam. Both are expiring and their prices should go down. Mavs weakness is, they don't have expiring salary to offer.

From the minutes perspective, I think it is very simple. THJ would be the outgoing salary, so incoming player (assume OG) would get those 30 minutes. Green keeps his and DJJ minutes can be passed to Omax in a limited bench role. Minutes are available, they would just need to rework the rotations.

Do you agree with my point that OG's immediate fit is a little easier to envision than Siakim's?

[F Gump]

Sorry if this has been covered, but I'm interested in Toronto's situation. One or both of Siakim and Annunoby are going to be on the market this year. That seems inevitable.

[....]

I have been on the Siakim to Dallas bandwagon for years, but I think given where things are right now I'm finally leaning OG. Not 100% sure though. Obviously, neither will be a Maverick because the Mavericks haven't learned to collect picks in a big pile to have available for times like this, but it's still fun to think about.

Discuss.

1 Not convinced either will be moved.
2 Doubt Mavs would want either. Not saying they are bad players, but rather that they aren't good enough to justify the massive trade price, plus the massive contracts it will take to keep them.
.... Neither can shoot the 3 very well, which is a problem in a Luka-led offense
.... Both will be looking for 40M+ per year
.... TOR will also want a massive haul in prospects
3 To me the fact they are lead players on a team that continues to be mediocre is a red flag as to their value - I think their price will be too high for what they bring to WINNING

[StrandedOnBeauboisHill]

Mavs weakness is, they don't have expiring salary to offer.

This is why I have a feeling the plan is to wait until this offseason when Holmes and Hardaway becoming expiring AND we have an additional first rounder to shop.  I just don't think we can compete in the market this year with what we currently have but then again I thought the same thing last season (really hope we don't give up that much of actual current on court talent again this season).

[The Jom]

Killer, isn’t it way, way too early to expend assets trying to fill the role you drafted Omax for? He’s not a typical late first rounder. They took on 24 mil just for the right to pay him another 3 per year. That’s a hefty investment.

[KillerLeft]

1 Not convinced either will be moved.
2 Doubt Mavs would want either. Not saying they are bad players, but rather that they aren't good enough to justify the massive trade price, plus the massive contracts it will take to keep them.
.... Neither can shoot the 3 very well, which is a problem in a Luka-led offense
.... Both will be looking for 40M+ per year
.... TOR will also want a massive haul in prospects
3 To me the fact they are lead players on a team that continues to be mediocre is a red flag as to their value - I think their price will be too high for what they bring to WINNING

Good thoughts here. I think the high price tag (not in trade, but on next contract) is a very valid argument, particularly for Siakim, who spent the summer trying to kill any rumored trade specifically to hold onto his dream of getting the super max that only Toronto can offer (yuck). I'm not saying you're wrong about OG being similarly ambitious for his next deal, but I don't know that we've seen evidence of it. 

But again, good thoughts!

[StrandedOnBeauboisHill]

1 Not convinced either will be moved.
2 Doubt Mavs would want either. Not saying they are bad players, but rather that they aren't good enough to justify the massive trade price, plus the massive contracts it will take to keep them.
.... Neither can shoot the 3 very well, which is a problem in a Luka-led offense
.... Both will be looking for 40M+ per year
.... TOR will also want a massive haul in prospects
3 To me the fact they are lead players on a team that continues to be mediocre is a red flag as to their value - I think their price will be too high for what they bring to WINNING

I agree with the overall sentiment but OG shot 39% on 5.5 attempts a game from deep.  Defenses aren't leaving him open out there.

I have been operating under the assumption that OG is much closer to a 30M player.  He certainly (barely) plays to that level.  I know that you and I tend to agree that he's a tad overrated here but he would absolutely elevate the ceiling of this roster.  Having said that, it's not worth 40M.  I'd rather continue to accumulate assets and go after a player more worthy of that price tag if that's actually what OG will be getting.

---

Killer, isn’t it way, way too early to expend assets trying to fill the role you drafted Omax for? He’s not a typical late first rounder. They took on 24 mil just for the right to pay him another 3 per year. That’s a hefty investment.

I understand where you're coming from but if you paid 24 mil for a player who becomes what you need or paid 24 mil for an asset you can trade for that player who is closer to your prime, does it make that much of a difference?  I think it's all dependent on how the front office defines what this rosters current "prime" timeline looks like vs where they want it to be.

[omahen]

Do you agree with my point that OG's immediate fit is a little easier to envision than Siakim's?

Yes. I don't think Grant and Siakam really fit together well next to Luka and Kyrie. But, Siakam is an upgrade over GW, I think. 

There is another target that could be more getable for our asset chest - Jerami Grant. Very likely he will be traded. He got a big contract, that will lower his market value. But that contract is still not such an obstacle to build around, still manageable. THJ+Holmes is approximately similar money, but Grant is a huge talent upgrade. Similar issue as with Siakam though - he overlaps a lot with GW. 

I just can't think of a realistic point of attack defender we could bring in to start. Someone that would be really decisively better than Green. Smart, White or Jrue would be ideal, but none of them will be available. Caruso is already more of a role player. I would like to have him, but I think Mavs need a bit bigger swing to really become a contender.