Trade & FA 2023-24: Booker Likes NYK? Vogel Out? Suns Imploding?

[F Gump]

Stupid question here...

IF they can waive this year + Stretch waive next year (didn't know it was possible, thanks for the education!), are they locked into a simple waive for this year or can they change it to a SW later if the extra cap space is needed?

Deadline for payroll stretch for this season on a waiver is Sep 1.

Once designated, the stretch will apply to this season and all that follow.

Miss the deadline for this season and this season can't be stretched. But next season's can, any time before Sep 1 of next season. Again, once designated, the stretch will apply to that season and all that follow (if any).

Hope that helps.

[DallasMaverick]

Deadline for payroll stretch for this season on a waiver is Sep 1.

Once designated, the stretch will apply to this season and all that follow.

Miss the deadline for this season and this season can't be stretched. But next season's can, any time before Sep 1 of next season. Again, once designated, the stretch will apply to that season and all that follow (if any).

Hope that helps.

Sure feels like they have something specific lined up, if indeed the report that he’s being S/W this year. Otherwise they’d just keep him, or waive.

[KillerLeft]

Sure feels like they have something specific lined up, if indeed the report that he’s being S/W this year. Otherwise they’d just keep him, or waive.

That’s the only thing that makes sense to me, too.

[surfpuckmd]

Given that the difference between paying the most we can and avoiding tax is only 6-7 million, and there are significant penalties for repeater tax I can live with it.  I mean if the only decision regarding avoiding tax is to stretch waive McGee, then I have no problem with it.

I believe the serious penalties only occur when above the 2nd apron.  We are nowhere near that.  Paying the luxury tax would only affect Mark Cuban's personal take from the Mavericks.  There would be no restrictions on player acquisitions/movement by moving into the luxury tax.

[surfpuckmd]

Sure feels like they have something specific lined up, if indeed the report that he’s being S/W this year. Otherwise they’d just keep him, or waive.

There's no benefit to announcing the McGee stretch waive prior to announcing a trade to justify it.  If the Mavericks do anticipate a trade, they should have waited to tell the world about the McGee stretch.  Otherwise, it simply hurts our leverage. 

I think this is likely Mark Cuban buying magic beans again and proudly displaying them to the world.  Only he's traded one of them already for a turd (Markieff Morris).

[Mapka]

There's no benefit to announcing the McGee stretch waive prior to announcing a trade to justify it.  If the Mavericks do anticipate a trade, they should have waited to tell the world about the McGee stretch.  Otherwise, it simply hurts our leverage. 

I think this is likely Mark Cuban buying magic beans again and proudly displaying them to the world.  Only he's traded one of them already for a turd (Markieff Morris).

Or it is putting pressure on a trade, where McGees salary is needed.
Assuming everything that happens is a fail by Cuban must be a darf place.

[mvossman]

I believe the serious penalties only occur when above the 2nd apron.  We are nowhere near that.  Paying the luxury tax would only affect Mark Cuban's personal take from the Mavericks.  There would be no restrictions on player acquisitions/movement by moving into the luxury tax.

There are guys on here way more knowledgeable than me on this, but my understanding is that when you become a tax repeater there are restrictions on player acquisitions/movement.  We paid tax last season so by not paying tax this season we can push out becoming a repeater at least 2 years.

Cuban has already shown a willingness to pay the tax this season if its worth it (Thybulle offer).  Stretching McGee does not save him any money, it just potentially advantageously alters when then cap/tax hits.

[Ghost of Podkolzin]

In S/W'ing McGee, can his contract be traded?

[surfpuckmd]

In S/W'ing McGee, can his contract be traded?

No.  

That's one of the reasons this is a losing move.  

That contract may have had some value next summer for salary matching.  Now it does not.

It also defers part of McGee's salary over an additional three years.  Those future years will presumably also include big salary increases to retain Josh Green and Jaden Hardy.  This will potentially affect other player acquisitions for the next four off-seasons.  

There would be more logic to just waiving this season's salary then stretch waiving his last year's salary next off-season.  Instead, they've apparently chosen to stretch waive this summer.  

There is no upside to this move.  They could have simply asked McGee to stay at home for two years or negotiated a buyout.

This remains a good season of progress overall but this particular move is peculiar and full of nonsense.

[KillerLeft]

No.  

That's one of the reasons this is a losing move.  

That contract may have had some value next summer for salary matching.  Now it does not.

It also defers part of McGee's salary over an additional three years.  Those future years will presumably also include big salary increases to retain Josh Green and Jaden Hardy.  This will potentially affect other player acquisitions for the next four off-seasons.  

There would be more logic to just waiving this season's salary then stretch waiving his last year's salary next off-season.  Instead, they've apparently chosen to stretch waive this summer.  

There is no upside to this move.  They could have simply asked McGee to stay at home for two years or negotiated a buyout.

This remains a good season of progress overall but this particular move is peculiar and full of nonsense.

...unless there's a reason the extra room (under the tax line) is needed. 

As cheap as I sometimes think Cuban is becoming, I can't imagine he'd put the team through this hardship for two extra years just to save a few million dollars immediately. I can see him making that choice if it's the difference between paying the tax and not paying it, but that isn't the case here. I think the obvious conclusion to draw is that either they have another move in mind for the near future that will bring in more money than they send out, or at the very least they're hoping to find such a move and wanted to give themselves the option. And honestly, I think it's kind of most likely that it's the former, not the latter.

[surfpuckmd]

...unless there's a reason the extra room (under the tax line) is needed. 

As cheap as I sometimes think Cuban is becoming, I can't imagine he'd put the team through this hardship for two extra years just to save a few million dollars immediately. I can see him making that choice if it's the difference between paying the tax and not paying it, but that isn't the case here. I think the obvious conclusion to draw is that either they have another move in mind for the near future that will bring in more money than they send out, or at the very least they're hoping to find such a move and wanted to give themselves the option. And honestly, I think it's kind of most likely that it's the former, not the latter.

Maybe so.

I think it's more likely though that someone on the Mavericks just insisted that Javale no longer be a Maverick.  I think the Mavs have a history of breaking up badly with players and I don't think that is typical in the NBA.  I am concerned that they tend to scapegoat certain players publicly.  This off-season it's been Christian Wood and Javale McGee.   It didn't work out with Javale but he was a useful rotation player on multiple winning teams prior to coming here as a free agent.  I don't see the advantage of the Mavericks publicly shaming him all summer.   Even more concerning, I don't like how they released to the media that they wanted to trade Tim Hardaway Jr.  That guy has certainly not been the problem with the Mavericks over the past few years.  Mark Cuban has aimed to be a player-friendly owner throughout his reign.   However, the Mavs often don't treat their players with much respect.

I think the other reason they're stretch-waiving McGee is because they wanted a tough guy on the team.  I think Cuban likes the idea of having a player on the Mavericks who is reckless with a history of violence.  Markieff Morris has that reputation and I think Mark wants him on the bench as a threat to retaliate for anyone taking cheap shots at Luka.  Markieff Morris the basketball player has declined but his reputation as a brawler remains.  

I think these moves are pure Mark Cuban because these are the kind of moves that we were making prior to Nico and Dennis Lindsay.  

These moves probably won't have much effect on our team this season but they were unnecessary and overall a small step backward.  It's just discouraging because this off-season was the best we have had in a long time.

[KillerLeft]

Maybe so.

I think it's more likely though that someone on the Mavericks just insisted that Javale no longer be a Maverick.  I think the Mavs have a history of breaking up badly with players and I don't think that is typical in the NBA.  I am concerned that they tend to scapegoat certain players publicly.  This off-season it's been Christian Wood and Javale McGee.   It didn't work out with Javale but he was a useful rotation player on multiple winning teams prior to coming here as a free agent.  I don't see the advantage of the Mavericks publicly shaming him all summer.   Even more concerning, I don't like how they released to the media that they wanted to trade Tim Hardaway Jr.  That guy has certainly not been the problem with the Mavericks over the past few years.  Mark Cuban has aimed to be a player-friendly owner throughout his reign.   However, the Mavs often don't treat their players with much respect.

I think the other reason they're stretch-waiving McGee is because they wanted a tough guy on the team.  I think Cuban likes the idea of having a player on the Mavericks who is reckless with a history of violence.  Markieff Morris has that reputation and I think Mark wants him on the bench as a threat to retaliate for anyone taking cheap shots at Luka.  Markieff Morris the basketball player has declined but his reputation as a brawler remains.  

I think these moves are pure Mark Cuban because these are the kind of moves that we were making prior to Nico and Dennis Lindsay.  

These moves probably won't have much effect on our team this season but they were unnecessary and overall a small step backward.  It's just discouraging because this off-season was the best we have had in a long time.

All I’m saying is that a stretch-waive, ANY stretch-waive, is quite atypical of the Mavs during the Cuban era. It’s really not like him to make the team less flexible for no reason. Heck, it’s not like him to make the team less flexible for a GOOD reason, lately. 

Maybe this is about McGee being ultra-undesirable, as you suggest, but it just feels like we’d have heard SOMETHING during the season if he had been that hated.

[Ghost of Podkolzin]

...unless there's a reason the extra room (under the tax line) is needed. 

As cheap as I sometimes think Cuban is becoming, I can't imagine he'd put the team through this hardship for two extra years just to save a few million dollars immediately. I can see him making that choice if it's the difference between paying the tax and not paying it, but that isn't the case here. I think the obvious conclusion to draw is that either they have another move in mind for the near future that will bring in more money than they send out, or at the very least they're hoping to find such a move and wanted to give themselves the option. And honestly, I think it's kind of most likely that it's the former, not the latter.

OK.  That was the silverlining I was looking for.  That's the only thing that makes sense.

[Moviemavguy]

All I’m saying is that a stretch-waive, ANY stretch-waive, is quite atypical of the Mavs during the Cuban era. It’s really not like him to make the team less flexible for no reason. Heck, it’s not like him to make the team less flexible for a GOOD reason, lately. 

Maybe this is about McGee being ultra-undesirable, as you suggest, but it just feels like we’d have heard SOMETHING during the season if he had been that hated.

I feel the hope that something will happen is that we just signed Derrick Jones jr.  Mavs are usually pretty up front about being done with the offseason, but multiple rumors have us trying hard to get a starting center.

But they absolutely 100% with no excuses need to get that done IMO.

[MarkAguirreWrathofGod]

Someone mentioned Phoenix above. I keep going back to Luka& DeAndre sharing an agent in Duffy and a mutual respect/friendship. There has been rumored interest. Phoenix needs depth. Ayton is still seemingly unhappy in Phoenix. THJ, and Holmes could help them. Holmes isn’t eligible to be traded until Sept.6. 

I just wonder what other compensation would be going back their way. Personally, the two rookies, Josh Green and Jaden Hardy are off limits. I’m sure every team is asking about them. Is Maxi in the table? What else is there to offer? A pick? Do we even have one to send that isn’t unprotected? No way I’m giving up a first for Ayton that isn’t AT LEAST lottery protected.

[F Gump]

...unless there's a reason the extra room (under the tax line) is needed. 

As cheap as I sometimes think Cuban is becoming, I can't imagine he'd put the team through this hardship for two extra years just to save a few million dollars immediately.

To keep the record straight....

This would not be about Cuban's pocket. Cuban doesn't save a penny by stretching the cap hit. The payment stays the same either way. The only diff is in the cap accounting.

[Jym]

To keep the record straight....

This would not be about Cuban's pocket. Cuban doesn't save a penny by stretching the cap hit. The payment stays the same either way. The only diff is in the cap accounting.

Maybe he sells the team before the 5 years is up

[Halfnir]

Cuban doesn't save a penny by stretching the cap hit. The payment stays the same either way. The only diff is in the cap accounting.

That is not 100% correct. The payment to McGee is exactly the same. But the different cap acounting means less money to spend in future years and this is the money that could be saved (by not giving it to other players)

However, as the stretched years fall into Luka's prime, maybe Cuban intends to pay tax then anyway. Then the additional money does not matter much to roster building but Cuban could actually end up paying more money for (but not to) McGee (2,3M+tax)

[surfpuckmd]

Dante Exum looked good against Finland.  Giddey got into foul trouble in the third and Exum took over at point and seemed capable.  He was able to get to the rim multiple times.  He hit both his threes and the form looked nice.  He scored 10 points on 5 shots.   Had a nice assist on a drive and dish.  He might serve as our emergency third point guard.  I think he’ll be in our rotation and we’ll be grateful to have a team option on him next offseason.

[DanSchwartzgan]

Dante Exum looked good against Finland.  Giddey got into foul trouble in the third and Exum took over at point and seemed capable.  He was able to get to the rim multiple times.  He hit both his threes and the form looked nice.  He scored 10 points on 5 shots.   Had a nice assist on a drive and dish.  He might serve as our emergency third point guard.  I think he’ll be in our rotation and we’ll be grateful to have a team option on him next offseason.

Give me 10 points/4 assists and +6 every night for the Mav's.  I'm hopeful he can secure more than the 'emergency' role and be the third PG.  This idea that he's a wing and not a PG doesn't look the least bit true based on what I've seen in his games with Australia.  He may be exactly what we need next to either Hardy or Curry.

The question I have about Exum is can he and Hardy or he and Curry run the show successfully without Luka or Kyrie for a few minutes.  It would be nice to have lineups that work without one of them so we wouldn't have to necessarily stagger Luka and Kyrie as much.