Trade & FA 2023-24: Booker Likes NYK? Vogel Out? Suns Imploding?

[Mapka]

They need more consistency in developing players. Their player development pipeline is way too sporadic and infrequent.

DFS 2016
Maxi 2017
Brunson 2018
2019 - none
2020- none [they did draft a 1st rounder here, Green]
2021 - none
Hardy 2022
2023 - none [they did draft two 1st rounders here, Lively and Prosper]

You can see the deep development area in 2019-2021 was not very aggressive or effective. So nothing was really added, And if you don't find and develop some projects every year to create an ongoing pipeline, where you can have some ready to replace those who will inevitably leave, in time you run dry. The most cap-friendly replacements are internal, and rarely other teams' free agents or players made available in trade.

Your acting like they didn't try.
They had a lot of fallen angels/secondrounders/undrafted projects that just didn't work out for a lot of reasons.
And you can't have more than two to four projects on a non-tanking team.

[Chicagojk]

Some Christian Wood talk/speculation

https://www.latimes.com/sports/lakers/ne...ter-lakers

[omahen]

Some Christian Wood talk/speculation

https://www.latimes.com/sports/lakers/ne...ter-lakers

Doesn't look like Lakers are considering SnT at all

[mvossman]

Some Christian Wood talk/speculation

https://www.latimes.com/sports/lakers/ne...ter-lakers

For all the folks wondering why we are not bringing Wood back, this is a really good outside perspective.

[ItsGoTime]

At this point, we’ve kinda met our quota on potential guys as well as mostly defensive guys. Adding another guy like Ayo Dosunmu who is a good defender with developing offense (bad right now) tips the scales too far the other direction. This team IMO, is Clint Capela (or someone akin) fitting exactly how he should away from another WCF appearance, if not more.

[ItsGoTime]

For all the folks wondering why we are not bringing Wood back, this is a really good outside perspective.

This debate doesn’t need a restart, but there was little in that article that suggested anything more needed to be added to it.

[Chicagojk]

Doesn't look like Lakers are considering SnT at all

Makes sense.  Vanderbilt may be in a minutes crunch but Lebron and AD do have injury issues.    He is also a cheap contract that can greatly outproduce his contract.  Could be used in a trade too.    

I hadn't thought about Chicago.  That was sort of interesting.  Last year, I was wondering if there could be a potential Vuc for Wood trade.    That obviously was not in the cards and Chicago has a much higher opinion on Vuc than Wood probably.

---

Jaden Hardy for Max Christie swap... Who says no?

https://www.silverscreenandroll.com/2023...s-analysis

After having watched some of the summer league games, I would like to make this move. The Lakers probably say no but it doesn't hurt to ask. Christie is the sort of two-way player that I think is needed alongside Luka, while the Lakers might feel they want a scorer like Hardy.

Won't happen, but that is a very interesting trade.   Both are young kids.   Christie was billed as a shooter entering college but didn't shoot well.  But he has all the traits you look for to be a starting caliber player.   Lakers have a lot of success developing late firsts/second round picks and he may be the next.  Supposedly he looked really good in summer league too.   Minutes may be tight for him, but it wouldn't surprise me to see him develop into a good player.   I believe him and Hardy went back to back.

[michaeltex]

Your question about the overlap involved with Luka and Kyrie is an interesting one. There are times when I wonder if Luka will even be a PG for his entire NBA career. He’ll always be great with the ball in his hands, both scoring and passing, but he has been wearing down a bit at the end of seasons, recently, especially last year. He also seems incapable of doing anything but walking the ball up the court every time. The way he uses pace in his 1-on-1 play is second to none, but he doesn’t seem to get how advantageous it would be for the pace of the TEAM’s play to be unpredictable. Or, he has to conserve so much energy that he CAN’T play any other way.

Now, we’re hearing that he’s trying to get back in bubble shape. That’s encouraging, I think, if he’s going to be the main PG. But, if weight continues to be a problem as he ages (relatively, it’s not like he’s Zion) I wonder if it doesn’t ultimately make sense to have another guy be the PG who brings the ball up, assesses the scene, looking for a way to press or a mismatch somewhere before setting Luka up to go to work. In other words, make him a forward on BOTH ends, albeit an exceptionally great playmaking forward.

Also, the Mavs have slowly but surely been turning into the Harden Rockets, a team on which 4-6 players are asked to play defense and then make shots when Luka creates them. Great on paper, but that’s a difficult rhythm for players to thrive in, and the best teams always seem to understand that when everyone touches the ball, good things happen.

Kyrie understands all of that. I don’t know how well they’ll fit, but one training camp will be enough. We should know by Christmas if it’s a promising fit, I think. What I’ll be looking for is something more synergetic than “my turn, your turn” where both of them are engaged when they’re off-ball, rather than resting. It’s obviously Luka’s team, but if I’m being honest I have a little more faith in Kyrie’s understanding of how to do that off-ball thing right now.

This is kind of what was running through my head when asking the question. Does it continue with taking turns on offense? Kyrie isn't really big enough, IMO, to play anything but PG, which he has shown is a great position for his skill set. 

So where does this leave Luka when they are both on court? Does Luka move to the SF position and play a Larry Bird role of being able to attack without worrying about the energy required to advance the ball? Can Kidd design a movement offense that creates off-ball mis-matches that take advantage of Luka and Kyrie's abilities? Does Luka accept not being the superhero any more? Does Kyrie?

At least it's something to think about during the summer doldrums and another "Excessive Heat Warning" day in TX.

[michaeltex]

Doesn't look like Lakers are considering SnT at all

Looks like vet min or bust for Wood in LA. Interesting that there may be competition from CHI. Possibly force LA into a SnT, but the article didn't mention that as a possibility. Kinda wonder if the writer did his homework before pumping out the story, but that seems to be the norm for online journalism these days.

[StrandedOnBeauboisHill]

Some Christian Wood talk/speculation

https://www.latimes.com/sports/lakers/ne...ter-lakers

From the article:

While teams love Wood’s talent and offensive skills, there are reasons why he’s available.

“If LeBron [James] can get him to toe the line, it cements LeBron as the greatest player of all time,” one NBA source said. “That’s how hard it is.”



...ouch

[michaeltex]

They need more consistency in developing players. Their player development pipeline is way too sporadic and infrequent.

DFS 2016
Maxi 2017
Brunson 2018
2019 - none
2020- none [they did draft a 1st rounder here, Green]
2021 - none
Hardy 2022
2023 - none [they did draft two 1st rounders here, Lively and Prosper]

You can see the deep development area in 2019-2021 was not very aggressive or effective. So nothing was really added, And if you don't find and develop some projects every year to create an ongoing pipeline, where you can have some ready to replace those who will inevitably leave, in time you run dry. The most cap-friendly replacements are internal, and rarely other teams' free agents or players made available in trade.

I'll agree with needing more consistency. I would point out that the 19-21 gap is the Porzingis Effect (PE). Would have continued in 23 except for an eleventh hour mini-tank and luck with the lottery balls. Green's first two years were screwed up due to the COVID Vortex, but he seems ready to contribute now. To me, Hardy is TBD. The rookies are giving us pre-season thrills, but we need to see if they hold up in league play.

So we have 4 main team guys and a couple on 2-ways that are worth watching. I'd say that's a decent development pipeline given the special events noted above.

[SleepingHero]

Some Christian Wood talk/speculation

https://www.latimes.com/sports/lakers/ne...ter-lakers

[SleepingHero]

https://twitter.com/keithsmithnba/status...51584?s=12&t=40R2DnShDlW6MCVGNB2h

@KeithSmithNBA
I talked to two different teams this morning and both independently mentioned that they are monitoring the Thunder and what happens with the roster.

One exec told me "Some good players are going to get cut from OKC and we all need to be ready to jump when that happens."

[Reunion Mav]

I think multiple playmaker/all star types is probably a necessary thing if they want to contend. Even Dirk always had someone else, despite the Mavs taking grief for how little talent they put around him. First, there was Nash and Finley (how dumb were they to break that group up) and the truth is that Terry ran the pick and roll with Dirk amazingly. They made art together - probably one of the 5 best pick and roll duos in the history of the league. 

We might not think so much of Jamal Murray, but this past year he was probably more effective than a lot of names that ring out more. This exercise could go on and on. In a general sense, I’m sure we’re all on the same page about needing multiple creators of offense.

Your question about the overlap involved with Luka and Kyrie is an interesting one. There are times when I wonder if Luka will even be a PG for his entire NBA career. He’ll always be great with the ball in his hands, both scoring and passing, but he has been wearing down a bit at the end of seasons, recently, especially last year. He also seems incapable of doing anything but walking the ball up the court every time. The way he uses pace in his 1-on-1 play is second to none, but he doesn’t seem to get how advantageous it would be for the pace of the TEAM’s play to be unpredictable. Or, he has to conserve so much energy that he CAN’T play any other way.

Now, we’re hearing that he’s trying to get back in bubble shape. That’s encouraging, I think, if he’s going to be the main PG. But, if weight continues to be a problem as he ages (relatively, it’s not like he’s Zion) I wonder if it doesn’t ultimately make sense to have another guy be the PG who brings the ball up, assesses the scene, looking for a way to press or a mismatch somewhere before setting Luka up to go to work. In other words, make him a forward on BOTH ends, albeit an exceptionally great playmaking forward.

Also, the Mavs have slowly but surely been turning into the Harden Rockets, a team on which 4-6 players are asked to play defense and then make shots when Luka creates them. Great on paper, but that’s a difficult rhythm for players to thrive in, and the best teams always seem to understand that when everyone touches the ball, good things happen.

Kyrie understands all of that. I don’t know how well they’ll fit, but one training camp will be enough. We should know by Christmas if it’s a promising fit, I think. What I’ll be looking for is something more synergetic than “my turn, your turn” where both of them are engaged when they’re off-ball, rather than resting. It’s obviously Luka’s team, but if I’m being honest I have a little more faith in Kyrie’s understanding of how to do that off-ball thing right now.

Very well stated. I’ve had very similar thoughts for some time and now that Kyrie has signed we will get to watch. If these two mesh the rest of the guys will have easy jobs and could look better than they ever have….or not.

[SleepingHero]

Doesn't look like Lakers are considering SnT at all

Well since Chicago appears to be interested with their disabled player exception at 10.1 mil, perhaps that might motivate the Lakers to commit to a SnT to try and match the money. It all depends on how bad the Lakers want/need Wood. 

If I remember the rules correct, the SnT just has to be a contract length of 3 years minimum, but the money doesn't have to be guaranteed after the 1st year. So the Lakers could structure it where Wood gets 11 mil the first year (beating out CHI's offer) and then add in some non guarantee's to keep their risks low.

[SleepingHero]

https://twitter.com/thenbacentral/status...97080?s=46&t=Fmdr94oXagcEyy75KJqaFg

NBACentral (@TheNBACentral)
The Bulls and Heat are potential suitors for Christian Wood, per @DanWoikeSports

[DallasMaverick]

https://twitter.com/thenbacentral/status...97080?s=46&t=Fmdr94oXagcEyy75KJqaFg

NBACentral (@TheNBACentral)
The Bulls and Heat are potential suitors for Christian Wood, per @DanWoikeSports

It's a little bit like when you saw a really pretty girl with a couple of annoying personality traits, and thought "She's salvageable!".

[Mavs2021]

https://twitter.com/keithsmithnba/status...51584?s=12&t=40R2DnShDlW6MCVGNB2h

@KeithSmithNBA
I talked to two different teams this morning and both independently mentioned that they are monitoring the Thunder and what happens with the roster.

One exec told me "Some good players are going to get cut from OKC and we all need to be ready to jump when that happens."

 
21 PLAYERS under contract. 21.

Even if we assume they just waive Bertans, Oladipo and Gay, they´d still have 18 players under contract, which means three of

Pokusevski (very likely)
Dieng (unlikely)
Mann (unlikely)
Garuba (unlikely)
Washington (likely)
I. Joe (likely)
Robinson (unlikely)
Wiggins (unlikely)

If they keep all the veterans it´s going to be a bloodbath.

I wonder how many 2nd rounders we´d have to pay for a McGee Deluxe package: Buy a Pokusevki + get two players for free. 

Wiggins shot almost 50/40/90 last year.  Washington and Garuba are two first rounders that have barely gotten a shot yet. Everybody knows Joe can be a flamethrower on a good day.

[F Gump]

Well since Chicago appears to be interested with their disabled player exception at 10.1 mil, perhaps that might motivate the Lakers to commit to a SnT to try and match the money. It all depends on how bad the Lakers want/need Wood. 

If I remember the rules correct, the SnT just has to be a contract length of 3 years minimum, but the money doesn't have to be guaranteed after the 1st year. So the Lakers could structure it where Wood gets 11 mil the first year (beating out CHI's offer) and then add in some non guarantee's to keep their risks low.

The fact that the Bulls have a 10M DPE, and might have some interest in Wood, doesn't mean they'd be willing to pay him a number anywhere like that. It was just a statement that they could outbid LA if they want to.

And I read LAs interest as being in "Wood the minimum salary possibility" since they plan to fill their last spot at that price. The idea they'd get into a bidding war, and try to trade for him, doesn't fit at all. If he wants more, he needs to find a different buyer.

[KillerLeft]

The fact that the Bulls have a 10M DPE, and might have some interest in Wood, doesn't mean they'd be willing to pay him a number anywhere like that. It was just a statement that they could outbid LA if they want to.

And I read LAs interest as being in "Wood the minimum salary possibility" since they plan to fill their last spot at that price. The idea they'd get into a bidding war, and try to trade for him, doesn't fit at all. If he wants more, he needs to find a different buyer.

Yeah, I don’t think Chicago will give him anything close to $10M, but it’s interesting that they can pay more than the minimum. 

Let’s say they offer double the vet min: like $5-6M…it would greatly behoove Wood, imo, to take the minimum from either MIA or LAL where he can easily earn a rotation spot on a good team that people actually care about. The best thing he can do is show that he can exist on a contender without being a disappointment in some way. Is that what we expect him to do, or do we think he’ll take the bigger offer from CHI (assuming one exists)? That will tell us something about him.