Trade & FA 2023-24: Stein-Ingram Trade Inevitable| LAL Want Lebron Back On Any Terms

[Smitty]

I don't know that I'd read too much into Thybulle starting.  He'd be on the floor when Luka/Kyrie were out there together, so having a lock down on-ball defender makes a lot of sense.  Green is a good defender, but he's not on Thybulle's level.  Still plenty of minutes for Green and Hardy coming off the bench in that scenario.  It's also possible that the Mavs saw Green as a valuable trade piece if Portland hadn't matched.  Either way, I'm not sure it reflects all that much on how the Mavs view Green as a player.

Also, I wouldn’t take anything TMac says as gospel. He contradicts himself in almost every “report” so that he can be right eventually.

Like saying the front office whispered that the benefit of trading Bullock was so Kidd couldn’t play him over Green.

Also saying the Mavs might trade Green because he could command 20M dollars next year. If he can command 20M dollars next year then how is he not a starter??

[KillerLeft]

It’s not that a high pick equals ready to play. It’s that the Mavs chose him (literally instead of trading for Ayton) when they needed help at center.

We can think they were wrong to do so, but you’ll never, ever convince me they decided to do that thinking he wouldn’t play for two years. That’s nut bar factor 9.

And, for the record, if we’re still wondering if Lively can contribute two years in, that’s a bad pick. Period. It’s very possible that’s how it will play out. I like what I’ve seen, so far.

[Scott41theMavs]

I agree with you.  I dont see this is as a successful summer if we go into the season with

maybe Holmes was just terrible because of his family situation
maybe Lively can be ready two years sooner than anyone thinks
maybe Maxi will be actually be healthy

Too many maybes for a team that wants to at least be a playoff team right now.  

We also haven't seen much discussion about the McMahon nugget about Thybulle would have started over Josh Green if Portland had let him go.  I'm still not sure the Mavs are as high on Josh Green as everyone assumes.  Grant Williams might be your third best starter or at least in the running and he was an 8th man/out of the rotation for an actual good team.

The maneuvering the Mavs have done this summer has been pretty nice but the product on the floor still looks quite underwhelming.

This roster was complete garbage outside of Luka, Kyrie, and Hardy and Green's upside at the end of last season. They had to start somewhere to rebuild things, and it seems to me they started off really well. 

Going into the year, yes, of course, GW is their third best starter (presuming no further moves). At least they were able to get him, which is a giant step up from past years.

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It’s not that a high pick equals ready to play. It’s that the Mavs chose him (literally instead of trading for Ayton) when they needed help at center.

We can think they were wrong to do so, but you’ll never, ever convince me they decided to do that thinking he wouldn’t play for two years. That’s nut bar factor 9.

And, for the record, if we’re still wondering if Lively can contribute two years in, that’s a bad pick. Period. It’s very possible that’s how it will play out. I like what I’ve seen, so far.

It's pretty obvious that you and Roy have much different evaluations of DL2's SL play. I'm far more on your side of things. Once more, it's the kid's intelligence (combined with his athletic gifts, of course) that gives me hope. Furthermore, I think it goes beyond their need for a center. Given how abominable the talent quotient outside of our two stars was, the Mavs absolutely had to do BPA. I think it's pretty clear they believed Lively was that guy. I'd say that if they're wrong, that would indicate that our talent evaluation hasn't improved as much as we hoped.

[KillerLeft]

It's pretty obvious that you and Roy have much different evaluations of DL2's SL play. I'm far more on your side of things. Once more, it's the kid's intelligence (combined with his athletic gifts, of course) that give me hope.

I think he has been one of the 3-4 best players on the court in all three games, so far. Each one better than the last.

In some ways, I think he has looked less “raw” than Hardy, tbh.

[Scott41theMavs]

I think he has been one of the 3-4 best players on the court in all three games, so far. Each one better than the last.

In some ways, I think he has looked less “raw” than Hardy, tbh.

I have no clue where Roy's "even more raw than I feared" evaluation is coming from given what I saw in the games, unless he expected Lively to be prime Hakeem on both ends of the floor from day one.

I have to hope that Hardy's struggles are a very temporary thing, or he's about to become DSJ II.

[Chicagojk]

https://twitter.com/YossiGozlan/status/1...59104?s=20

If the Atlanta Hawks acquire Pascal Siakam, there’s a good chance they have to move one of Clint Capela or Onyeka Okongwu for salary matching.

That possibility may have played into the decision to guarantee Bruno Fernando earlier this week, in case they can’t get another big.

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Well if it is OO, Massai will just keep him and take on other bad salary imo.

[Jason Terry]

Lively is fast enough with the motor and work ethic to be able to become a switch everything big. This is something the interviews mentioned with the mavs in pre draft workouts. I think this is part of the plan. Have him mostly in drop coverage to start

Maybe have him go to the G league for a few stints throughout the year to work on his game. With the goal of him being ready by the end of the year

[KillerLeft]

I mean, maybe he gets out there in real games and looks awful. Soooooo tough to judge summer league. All I know is that a year from now, I want him pushing for the starting job if I’m the Mavs. Scaring it to death, at least.

I’m not paying A FIRST to put someone in his way. A good veteran with 1-2 years on his deal left, in exchange for Hardaway, sure! If you can’t find that guy, you go to war with Powell, Holmes and the most important one in any near future scenario: KLEBER.

[Scott41theMavs]

https://twitter.com/YossiGozlan/status/1...59104?s=20

If the Atlanta Hawks acquire Pascal Siakam, there’s a good chance they have to move one of Clint Capela or Onyeka Okongwu for salary matching.

That possibility may have played into the decision to guarantee Bruno Fernando earlier this week, in case they can’t get another big.

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Well if it is OO, Massai will just keep him and take on other bad salary imo.

They can have McGee for another big if they give us Capela.

[KillerLeft]

https://twitter.com/YossiGozlan/status/1...59104?s=20

If the Atlanta Hawks acquire Pascal Siakam, there’s a good chance they have to move one of Clint Capela or Onyeka Okongwu for salary matching.

That possibility may have played into the decision to guarantee Bruno Fernando earlier this week, in case they can’t get another big.

********************
Well if it is OO, Massai will just keep him and take on other bad salary imo.

I don’t think they’re moving OO. I haven’t read even a hint of that. Their fans would lose it though, so it would be hilarious. 

I just feel like Capela is gonna be a Maverick. Makes so much sense to me.

[mvossman]

You can say the exact same things about Josh Green.  Same age coming into the league.  Great athlete.  Great makeup. Underwhelming performance his one year in college.  Considered raw.  

People are acting like since the 12th pick is a "lottery" pick, he should contribute a lot sooner than the 18th pick.  I don't see much difference.  I also don't have the same read that the Mavs expect him to contribute right away since they spent such a high pick on him.  He was the only defensive center left on the board where the Mavs were picking.  No other options if you wanted a young big man to develop.

I expect a similar developmental timeline for Lively as Josh.

I would argue that Lively was significantly better in college than Green in his last 2 months after he had gotten over his calf issues.  He was arguably the most impactful defensive player in college.  He was definitely a higher rated prosect projected as a lottery pick where as green was projected late first.  I also think Green lost nearly a full season of development due to the covid situation.  Between those two things, I think you can expect Lively to progress quicker than Green did, but you never know.

[Kidnova]

I don’t think they’re moving OO. I haven’t read even a hint of that. Their fans would lose it though, so it would be hilarious. 

I just feel like Capela is gonna be a Maverick. Makes so much sense to me.

Yeah, I agree.  There's been a lot of smoke there for a long time, and the timeline for the Mavs works out great.  Bring him in for a year or two to start and mentor Lively, then he can be moved or they can let him walk after his contract expires.

[Jakeospikez]

Draft position doesn't really matter too much for how long it should take someone to be ready to play. There's raw prospects taken in the top 5. Players with more years of experience in college taken late in the draft. Lively's offense is definitely raw. Defense he definitely has a chance to be effective year 1. Kessler 22nd pick, 2 years of college 1 as a starter and is already an elite nba rim protector in year 1.

Hardy destroyed the G League last season and summer league isn't really that different. The OKC team is not normal but Philly/GSW are pretty much full on G League rosters. He'll be fine.

[DanSchwartzgan]

I don’t think they’re moving OO. I haven’t read even a hint of that. Their fans would lose it though, so it would be hilarious. 

Speaking of OO and the conversation about Lively and his time table.  OO, IF (IF) he gets to become the “starter” following a Capela trade, he will be right at 23 years old and beginning his 4th year.  He was the 6th overall pick.  He went from 12 minutes his rookie season to 20 to 23 last season.  Any reason to expect more from Lively?

[KillerLeft]

Speaking of OO and the conversation about Lively and his time table.  OO, IF (IF) he gets to become the “starter” following a Capela trade, he will be right at 23 years old and beginning his 4th year.  He was the 6th overall pick.  He went from 12 minutes his rookie season to 20 to 23 last season.  Any reason to expect more from Lively?

Personally, I say yes. 

Took a while for the world to figure out OO’s best position was the 5.

He had Capela in front of him. 

Call me crazy, but I feel like Lively knows EXACTLY what he is - a defensive 5 who needs to master the screen/roll game on offense. I don’t think it’s impossible that he could get there before age 23.

[Okstate819]

Speaking of OO and the conversation about Lively and his time table.  OO, IF (IF) he gets to become the “starter” following a Capela trade, he will be right at 23 years old and beginning his 4th year.  He was the 6th overall pick.  He went from 12 minutes his rookie season to 20 to 23 last season.  Any reason to expect more from Lively?

I’d argue he could’ve replaced Capela by mid way through his second season. His defense versatility is on another level.

[KillerLeft]

I’d argue he could’ve replaced Capela by mid way through his second season. His defense versatility is on another level.

And THAT is why no Ayton. Don’t want to be stuck with a big contract attached to someone you have to play.

[BigDirk41]

Lively is going to me in the rotation this year and playing a lot more than most think imo. The Mavs didn't draft the guy to hope he pans out in 2 years. He's getting thrown into the fire.

[ItsGoTime]

Lively is going to me in the rotation this year and playing a lot more than most think imo. The Mavs didn't draft the guy to hope he pans out in 2 years. He's getting thrown into the fire.

The reports say they will bring him along slowly. That doesn’t scream “thrown into the fire” to me.

[Jason Terry]

Speaking of OO and the conversation about Lively and his time table.  OO, IF (IF) he gets to become the “starter” following a Capela trade, he will be right at 23 years old and beginning his 4th year.  He was the 6th overall pick.  He went from 12 minutes his rookie season to 20 to 23 last season.  Any reason to expect more from Lively?

This is a realistic take and probably how it plays out. 12-15min as the 3rd big plus some G league 

There’s a world though where Maxi gets hurt and Lively is the only real rim protector. Something like this is how Lively could play 25 min a game

As it stands I think we give Holmes a chance to start to begin the year and use him as an innings eater. Maxi plays the important minutes. Powell fills in whenever needed. Lively is brought along at his own pace earning minutes