Trade & FA 2023-24: Stein-Ingram Trade Inevitable| LAL Want Lebron Back On Any Terms

[SleepingHero]

https://twitter.com/mavs_ffl/status/1671...78565?s=46&t=bBRvvEZPYFLF-T5n-yNj2w

Report: There is a feeling in the league that Deandre Ayton could be traded for a matching salary and no draft picks, per Stein

[Scott41theMavs]

https://twitter.com/mavs_ffl/status/1671...78565?s=46&t=bBRvvEZPYFLF-T5n-yNj2w

I don't care for the idea of us getting him at all, but if it's for our garbage, then I can stomach it.

[Mavs2021]

https://twitter.com/mavs_ffl/status/1671...78565?s=46&t=bBRvvEZPYFLF-T5n-yNj2w

Mavs leaking via Stein: Ayrton market is trash. We keep the pick.

This screams: Here is THJ + McGee + Bullock and bye.



Is there hope after all for this front office?

[KillerLeft]

Mavs leaking via Stein: Ayrton market is trash. We keep the pick.

This screams: Here is THJ + McGee + Bullock and bye.



Is there hope after all for this front office?

I’m typing the following statement with a straight face, and stand behind it: THJ is a better player than Ayton. Mavs lose that trade.

[StrandedOnBeauboisHill]

I’m typing the following statement with a straight face, and stand behind it: THJ is a better player than Ayton. Mavs lose that trade.

Do you think he's a better fit for this team?  I am kind of with you that Ayton is overrated on this board but he would still be the best center we've had since Tyson and Hardaway's role is shrinking by the minute.  If you can leverage your pick and non core assets to get a starting 4 and 5 (and it makes sense on paper and the court), I would consider this offseason a win and that's essentially what's being presented.

[Mavs2021]

I’m typing the following statement with a straight face, and stand behind it: THJ is a better player than Ayton. Mavs lose that trade.

Ayton is the perfect trade target, because he has been the latest young talent that has been put in the gutter by a mass media assault.
Other recent examples include Wiggins, Randle, Markkanen or Lavine. Ayton is lazy. Ayton disappears in big games. Blah Blah Blah. He was a 16/12 NBA finals center in his rookie season. Lauri Markkanen was also a 19/9 PF/C in his 2nd season, then his performance started to tail off a bit and he was made the scapegoat for the Bulls decline. Ayton is 24 years old. He´s a good player with upside. He´s friends with Luka. He is certainly better than any center we had in the last decade and if he is available for as little as THJ/Bullock/McGee it would be foolish to not acquire him.

[Scott41theMavs]

Ayton is the perfect trade target, because he has been the latest young talent that has been put in the gutter by a mass media assault.
Other recent examples include Wiggins, Randle, Markkanen or Lavine. Ayton is lazy. Ayton disappears in big games. Blah Blah Blah. He was a 16/12 NBA finals center in his rookie season. Lauri Markkanen was also a 19/9 PF/C in his 2nd season, then his performance started to tail off a bit and he was made the scapegoat for the Bulls decline. Ayton is 24 years old. He´s a good player with upside. He´s friends with Luka. He is certainly better than any center we had in the last decade and if he is available for as little as THJ/Bullock/McGee it would be foolish to not acquire him.

He'd still be an albatross contract. I need some 2nds back as well.

[Mavs2021]

Do you think he's a better fit for this team?  I am kind of with you that Ayton is overrated on this board but he would still be the best center we've had since Tyson and Hardaway's role is shrinking by the minute.  If you can leverage your pick and non core assets to get a starting 4 and 5 (and it makes sense on paper and the court), I would consider this offseason a win and that's essentially what's being presented.

..and you free the rotation for Hardy and Green. Hardy will be ready for the 6th man role imho and with Green it´s time to sink or swim. He tends to hide, when the roster is at full strength. With Bullock out of the equation, it´s time to stabilize your performance and earn that contract extension, Can´t pay him, if he has the skills (which he has teased regularly now), but doesn´t have the mindset to display them by standing up for himself and get his.

---

He'd still be an albatross contract. I need some 2nds back as well.

Only if the landscape on contracts changes completely with the new CBA, which is possible. Could also be a lot of trade posturing right now, where teams try to leverage the new CBA to make some smart early trades.

[StrandedOnBeauboisHill]

..and you free the rotation for Hardy and Green. Hardy will be ready for the 6th man role imho and with Green it´s time to sink or swim. He tends to hide, when the roster is at full strength. With Bullock out of the equation, it´s time to stabilize your performance and earn that contract extension, Can´t pay him, if he has the skills (which he has teased regularly now), but doesn´t have the mindset to display them by standing up for himself and get his.

Ya I agree with this.  My only concern is if you move Hardaway AND Bullock you really need another wing now.  I'm all for Hardy moving into Hardaway's role and getting those looks moving forward and all for Green moving into a full time starter role alongside Kyrie and Luka but I would like to hold onto Bullock simply to play those minutes behind Green.  If there is a way to use all those assets to get a new starting frontcourt AND a backup wing then I have no problem parting ways with Bullock.

[cow]

I don't care for the idea of us getting him at all, but if it's for our garbage, then I can stomach it.

Sigh.  Agreed.

[Mavs2021]

Ya I agree with this.  My only concern is if you move Hardaway AND Bullock you really need another wing now.  I'm all for Hardy moving into Hardaway's role and getting those looks moving forward and all for Green moving into a full time starter role alongside Kyrie and Luka but I would like to hold onto Bullock simply to play those minutes behind Green.  If there is a way to use all those assets to get a new starting frontcourt AND a backup wing then I have no problem parting ways with Bullock.

If we assume that trade goes through it would be difficult to stay under the luxuy tax apron of 169.0 to keep the full MLE and BAE.

It would certainly be possible, if Kyrie is working with the Mavs to sign a reasonable starting salary.

Doncic 40
Irving 40
Ayton 33
Barnes 12 MLE (doubt it, but let´s assume that for a second)
Kleber 11
Bertans 5.4 s/w
Green 4.8
Mo. Wagner 4.4 BAE
Hendricks 4.0
Hardy 1.8
156.4

Fill rest with Powell, Morris, Lawson, Pinson, Ntilikina and some 2nd round talent.

Doncic/Hardy/Pinson
Irving/Lawson/Ntilikina
Green/Hendricks/2nd round pick
Barnes/Kleber/Morris
Ayton/Wagner/Powell

I think that would be as good as it gets for this off-season and positionally very flexible.

[Jym]

If we assume that trade goes through it would be difficult to stay under the luxuy tax apron of 169.0 to keep the full MLE and BAE.

It would certainly be possible, if Kyrie is working with the Mavs to sign a reasonable starting salary.

Doncic 40
Irving 40
Ayton 33
Barnes 12 MLE (doubt it, but let´s assume that for a second)
Kleber 11
Bertans 5.4 s/w
Green 4.8
Mo. Wagner 4.4 BAE
Hendricks 4.0
Hardy 1.8
156.4

Fill rest with Powell, Morris, Lawson, Pinson, Ntilikina and some 2nd round talent.

Doncic/Hardy/Pinson
Irving/Lawson/Ntilikina
Green/Hendricks/2nd round pick
Barnes/Kleber/Morris
Ayton/Wagner/Powell

I think that would be as good as it gets for this off-season and positionally very flexible.

Probably not happening but it'd be nice if going with the that 5th year could get him to go lower in year 1
A hypothetical 5 year deal worth $200 million could start at around $34.5 mil. He'd make $45.6 mil in year 5

[Luka77]

Why not just say, you are not making the deal? No way SA accepts that  . If they really, really, really like the guy at #10, you might squeeze some minor draft assets in addition to Johnson, but no way they include Vassel. Vassel and Bilal could easily play as SG and SF. At least this is how I see it.

Johnson is 20ppg wing on a below 20 per contract for four more years. High energy guy. His shooting has been good when they still had a good PG, dropped last year when he had to create more by himself. Improved each year so far. He is definitely worth #10 pick on the market. It is just a question if you see him as a fit on Mavs or not.

Vassell and Bilal are redundant.  Almost the same player, although I think Bilal is more athletic and has better ball handling skills.

SAS are light years ahead of the Mavs in evaluating, drafting and developing talent.  That much has been shown year after year for at least the last two decades. 

If they want a talent and to trade a young vet for a talent the Mavs should think about taking that talent themselves.  Last time SAS traded away a young vet for a draft pick they ended up with Kawhi while the other team got George Hill.

If SAS likes someone that the Mavs are unsure about they better demand a premium.

[DanSchwartzgan]

156.4

Fill rest with Powell, Morris, Lawson, Pinson, Ntilikina and some 2nd round talent.

Doncic/Hardy/Pinson
Irving/Lawson/Ntilikina
Green/Hendricks/2nd round pick
Barnes/Kleber/Morris
Ayton/Wagner/Powell

This brings up an interesting question.  Do you try to stay under the $169mm and get access to the MLE/BAE (but probably needing to S/W Bertans to do it)?  Or, do you forego S&T’s and the full MLE and give yourself more room to work financially.  

Personally, I no longer see them doing a Bertans S/W.  I think he’s too valuable as matching salary.  I tend to lean more toward trade matching up to the second apron instead of the MLE and being limited to staying under the first apron (but it isn’t my money).

I see Hendricks as a PF.  I’d probably start Maxi and use the Morris minutes to bring Hendricks along at the right pace so by the end of season he’s getting a consistent run every game.

Powell is a perfectly fine backup C and Maxi could take some minutes there also.  I don’t see spending anything more than a minimum 3rd string C.

I think the open spot on the roster would be a backup wing behind or ahead of Green.  Accomplish that and you’ve filled C, PF and wing.  The key of course is trading for Ayton without giving up draft capital.  If a package of players who doesn’t include the pick gets that done, then great.

[cow]

Pinning your hopes on a Kyrie/Ayton combo seems like a recipe for disappointment.

[DanSchwartzgan]

https://twitter.com/mavs_ffl/status/1671...78565?s=46&t=bBRvvEZPYFLF-T5n-yNj2w

Quote:
Report: There is a feeling in the league that Deandre Ayton could be traded for a matching salary and no draft picks, per Stein

I heard Chris Haynes today saying Washington was offered Ayton and instead selected expiring CP3.  It supports the argument others have made that Ayton isn’t worth draft capital and Phoenix should just take rotation players on better contracts.  

By the transitive property, if Ayton is worth less than an expiring contract and there is thought that there might be an Ayton/Collins swap, then Collins is also worth less than an expiring contract.

[DanSchwartzgan]

Rafael Barlow was on This League podcast today with Haynes and Stein.  He said he heard Siakam to Portand for 3 was a serious possibility.  With Portland now possibly in on a PGeorge deal, which way are they going to go?  Then you have Miami passing on Beal in order to get Dame.  Some think that means Miami has good intel that Dame will move (which then kills any PG or Siakam deal).

There is reporting now that Phoenix reached out to Dallas about a S&T for Irving before the Beal deal went down.  Dallas said no.  PG to Houston for #4 and KPJ would be scary.  Adds $30mm salary to Houston leaving them over $40mm in space for a PG to play with PG and the kids.  Rut Row

[Scott41theMavs]

PG to Houston for #4 and KPJ would be scary.  Adds $30mm salary to Houston leaving them over $40mm in space for a PG to play with PG and the kids.  Rut Row

Not sure PG is a draw on his own.

[SleepingHero]

I heard Chris Haynes today saying Washington was offered Ayton and instead selected expiring CP3.  It supports the argument others have made that Ayton isn’t worth draft capital and Phoenix should just take rotation players on better contracts.  

By the transitive property, if Ayton is worth less than an expiring contract and there is thought that there might be an Ayton/Collins swap, then Collins is also worth less than an expiring contract.

Its funny because I saw the exact opposite report where Washington asked for Ayton but it was the Suns that refused to add him.

In any case, there is a LOT of posturing regarding Ayton. Stein saying he has no market. PHX reporters are hinting at keeping him and are wanting a starting center at least for any trade.

[SleepingHero]

There is reporting now that Phoenix reached out to Dallas about a S&T for Irving before the Beal deal went down.  Dallas said no.  PG to Houston for #4 and KPJ would be scary.  Adds $30mm salary to Houston leaving them over $40mm in space for a PG to play with PG and the kids.  Rut Row

I won't be surprised if HOU makes a big swing. But the thing is, all the smoke regarding Harden going there has died down, with him instead opting to stay in Philly. Why would the Harden rumors not intensify especially if these new PG rumors are to be believed? 

I don't think HOU is realistically offering #4 for PG nor do I think he's worth that personally given his injury history. His shoulder is really bad. It's always something. 

Whether or not Kyrie would go there... well we all called it in March. I won't be surprised if HOU tried. Once again its up to the Mavs to show they aren't the worst front office of all time. 

If they lose Kyrie for nothing to a division rival what does that say to Luka and their ability to actually put a good team around him?