Trade & FA 2023-24: NOP Will Not Give Ingram an Extension

[DanSchwartzgan]

Are we sure?
I mean it seems they want better player and in such case they will give something more for him.
In Dallas case, we are giving them inferior player so they get something. 
I mean the article they would like to make a trade for Siakam, I would argue that he is worth trading pick for.

I think so.  I’m not sure who on Brooklyn is the superior player.  Bridges won’t go for Collins and they don’t control Cam Johnson.  Who then?  All Brooklyn really has is an inferior player and a lesser pick.  Here is the line in question:

Maybe the Hawks end up trading down from No. 15 — as opposed to the aforementioned scenario with Dallas — in order to move Collins

[HoosierDaddyKid]

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_...amelo-ball




Here are 5 trade recommendations for Zion.

[HoosierDaddyKid]

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/3785...zz-reports

[Scott41theMavs]

For a team who's trying to get win now players, the Mavs neither has a win now coach or a win now GM.

You're 100% correct on the coach. I was about to spring to the defense of Nico, Lindsay, and Finley, then I remembered who's really in charge. That isn't fixable until he sells the team, tbh.

[SleepingHero]

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_...amelo-ball




Here are 5 trade recommendations for Zion.

Charlotte Hornets get: Williamson, Bucks' 2025 first-round pick (if 1-4)
New Orleans Pelicans get: Gordon Hayward, No. 2 pick


Portland Trail Blazers get: Williamson
New Orleans Pelicans get: No. 3 pick, Patty Mills, Royce O'Neale and Dorian Finney-Smith
Brooklyn Nets get: Anfernee Simons and Keon Johnson


Detroit Pistons get: Williamson
New Orleans Pelicans get: No. 2 overall pick in 2023 draft, Bojan Bogdanovic, Isaiah Stewart
Charlotte Hornets get: No. 5 and 14


Atlanta Hawks get: Williamson, Jaxson Hayes
New Orleans Pelicans get: John Collins, Onyeka Okongwu, 2023 first-round pick, 2024 first-round pick (from SAC)

Zion and the Beard trade places
Philadelphia 76ers get: Williamson ($33M this year), Larry Nance Jr. ($10M this year), Garrett Temple ($5M), Trey Murphy III ($3M)
New Orleans Pelicans get: James Harden (currently $33M before opt out; Harden must agree to sign-and-trade), P.J. Tucker ($10.5M), Mac McClung (qualifying offer), two 2024 second-round picks (76ers' and Knicks' picks)

[Jym]

You're 100% correct on the coach. I was about to spring to the defense of Nico, Lindsay, and Finley, then I remembered who's really in charge. That isn't fixable until he sells the team, tbh.

Yeah I have very little hope at the moment
I'm most curious about what they'll get for Luka in a year or 2 when he forces himself out of here

[ItsGoTime]

It’s about that time for Lindsey to decide it isn’t worth it to even consult MC isn’t it?

[F Gump]

For some reason (probably aggregation) we spent a whole day on Collins based on reporting from Jake Fischer.  But if you read what he actually wrote (below), it is pretty clear Dallas is the team saying no to Collins.  Not only do they prefer Capela, but it would take Capela’s inclusion for them to even “consider” such a scenario.  I interpret that to mean a 10 for 15 swap might require Atlanta to put up another asset.

In “Atlanta, the Hawks will continue to explore trade scenarios for Collins. That has so far included preliminary talks with Dallas about swapping Collins and the No. 15 pick in the draft with the Mavericks for the No. 10 pick and Dāvis Bertāns. Those talks did not develop very far, sources said, and Dallas indicated it would be more willing to consider that deal if Hawks center Clint Capela was the returning player from Atlanta


The article goes on to say Atlanta might consider trading down to move Collins.  So, not only is Collins not worth a move up, Atlanta might have to give something to move him.  That aligns with previous reporting that it would take less than a first to get Collins.  Brooklyn is mentioned as a trade down candidate for Atlanta.  It also mentions that Atlanta might combine a bunch of its assets in a deal for Siakam.  In both cases, there might be an opportunity for Dallas to get involved in a 3 way that gives up 10 and yields more than just Capela.  Even if it is “just” Capela, adding a quality center and moving on from Bertans has value.  All of this is a far cry from Givony’s deal with Detroit.  Fischer in the past has had some stuff in advance of it actually happening, so I like where this appears to be heading.

This sounds like the real climate for Collins. Thanks for sharing.

Collins contract, compared to his actual usefulness on the court, is a real problem for ATL. They have been shopping him, but haven't been able to find a taker, because no one else wants to have to eat the bad contract for them. The idea that they will have to ADD side value in order to get a taker seems right. A lot of the discussion in this forum fantasizes about Collins and how he would be great to have, but those ideas gloss right over how he plays and imagines him to be something he hasn't been for quite some time.

Like you, I do think Capela is way more desirable in DAL than Collins, and would hope for a deal that looks something like this:
DAL gets Capella, 15, Johnson
ATL gets Bertans, 10, McGee

[StepBackJay]

Like you, I do think Capela is way more desirable in DAL than Collins, and would hope for a deal that looks something like this:
DAL gets Capella, 15, Johnson
ATL gets Bertans, 10, McGee

Co-sign, I love this trade

[ItsGoTime]

If moving up 5 spots in the draft is worth a starting C and a young player with potential all while dumping 2 undesirable contracts, count me in. Put me down as skeptical that it’s close to a workable deal though.

[Jym]

If moving up 5 spots in the draft is worth a starting C and a young player with potential all while dumping 2 undesirable contracts, count me in. Put me down as skeptical that it’s close to a workable deal though.

Yeah I wonder if something like THJ + 10 for Capela + 15 would be more likely

[RasheedsBigWhiteSpot]

Yeah I wonder if something like THJ + 10 for Capela + 15 would be more likely

I think THJ=Capela.  Or at least the difference is more like a SRP to Atlanta (I know, I know.  The Mavs don't...).  But it's definitely not worth 5 early picks spots.

[DanSchwartzgan]

This sounds like the real climate for Collins. Thanks for sharing.

Collins contract, compared to his actual usefulness on the court, is a real problem for ATL. They have been shopping him, but haven't been able to find a taker, because no one else wants to have to eat the bad contract for them. The idea that they will have to ADD side value in order to get a taker seems right. A lot of the discussion in this forum fantasizes about Collins and how he would be great to have, but those ideas gloss right over how he plays and imagines him to be something he hasn't been for quite some time.

Like you, I do think Capela is way more desirable in DAL than Collins, and would hope for a deal that looks something like this:
DAL gets Capella, 15, Johnson
ATL gets Bertans, 10, McGee

Yeah, I had this trade of yours echoing in my head as I wrote that.  It feels a little heavy toward Dallas to me.  Johnson is kind of the Powell to Rondo in this deal as Johnson will likely be around long after Capela is gone.  Getting rid of McGee AND Bertans seems too good to be true (at least for Capela).  

Of course, Fischer isn’t in the room, so no telling what is being thrown around.  Lots of mix and match possibilities here.   Atlanta is a hair under the tax, so that has to be considered in a June trade.

[SleepingHero]

Like you, I do think Capela is way more desirable in DAL than Collins, and would hope for a deal that looks something like this:
DAL gets Capella, 15, Johnson
ATL gets Bertans, 10, McGee

I'd actually throw in Bey vs. Johnson. 

Bey has shown that he can score in spurts. Johnson is more raw with higher upside. Still that framework is right in line with what I was imagining with a Collins trade. Although never discount my ability to somehow turn it into a 3-teamer for either Deandre Ayton or Buddy Hield. 

---

https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status...LLva0uAAAA

Developing: Washington is in serious talks with two finalists – Miami and Phoenix – on a Bradley Beal trade, sources tell
@TheAthletic @Stadium. The Suns have emerged as a serious threat for Beal, who holds a no-trade clause.

[ItsGoTime]

Yeah I wonder if something like THJ + 10 for Capela + 15 would be more likely

It all depends on what Atl values more. Murray should be getting a huge pay increase next year. Okongwu and Bey might be as well (huge, compared to their current salary). Doing that takes money and in the new CBA environment, money is king (well, we’ll see I guess). In addition, THJ plays a position that they are very set in. Lots to take into account.

Bertans makes much more sense when put in that light. Now, Bullock, Maxi and 10 for Capela, Bey and 15? That may have some legs seeing their roster issues, especially if Collins is gone too.

[Knutsen]

I'd actually throw in Bey vs. Johnson. 

Bey has shown that he can score in spurts. Johnson is more raw with higher upside. Still that framework is right in line with what I was imagining with a Collins trade. Although never discount my ability to somehow turn it into a 3-teamer for either Deandre Ayton or Buddy Hield. 

---

https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status...LLva0uAAAA

Wonder what the Suns could possibly offer to be a finalist for Beal, with the Heat. Must be a package around Ayton, wouldn’t it? 

Porzingis and Ayton on the Wizards, I don‘t know. 

And the Suns are one of the few teams with a better shooting guard than Beal in Booker, or do they want Booker to play point guard…? Strange from all perspectives, but what do I know.

[SleepingHero]

So how does PHX afford Beal?

Its either centered around Paul+Shamet, or Ayton+Shamet.

Either deal doesn't make much sense for Washington if they're trying to clean their books. CP3 definitely helps clean their sheet, but there is literally no value there for Washington and they're trading the superstar here.

Ayton is a young center to build around, but he isn't cheap. There were rumors (on Bill Simmons podcast) that KP is going to opt into his 36mil option. If that's the case then Washington would be paying almost 70 mil for 2 centers. That doesn't make much sense either in terms of money saving.

With that in mind, it almost has to be a 3-team deal. Especially a team that has picks.

You all know where I'm going with this:

Bertans+Bullock+10+CP3 to WAS

Ayton to DAL

Beal+Morris to PHX.

Should Washington S/W all 3 of these guys, they'd be about 12 mil of dead money each year for 5 years, but they reduce their payroll nearly 38 mil, and their cap sheet is clean as early as 2024 (if they lose Kuzma they get about 25 mil under the cap). Essentially they're taking 1 year of Beal's money and dividing it over 5 years. They also get a lottery pick and whatever else PHX throws their way.

Dallas obviously gets their starting center. They are also providing the most value in this deal in terms of the lotto pick and further cap relief. Bertans+Bullock+10 for Ayton seems a bit high, but if Dallas goes to IND and spins THJ into 26+29+Theis (or McConnell) their own cap sheet all of a sudden looks seriously well balanced and they stay in the draft.

[F Gump]

DAL gets Capella, 15, Johnson
ATL gets Bertans, 10, McGee

Yeah, I had this trade of yours echoing in my head as I wrote that.  It feels a little heavy toward Dallas to me.  Johnson is kind of the Powell to Rondo in this deal as Johnson will likely be around long after Capela is gone.  Getting rid of McGee AND Bertans seems too good to be true (at least for Capela).  
Of course, Fischer isn’t in the room, so no telling what is being thrown around.  Lots of mix and match possibilities here.   Atlanta is a hair under the tax, so that has to be considered in a June trade.

1 What I like about that trade is that it can be massaged slightly in various directions. For example, pop in THJ instead of DB?
2 And it can be done in June. That means the way the draft falls can shift the value of pick 10 vs pick 15.
3 And it is basically salary-neutral. In the version I posted, ATL adds an extra $1M in cap room (plus more, if they s-w DB).

[Side note about pick 15: I know the thought is to trade down and then get Lively a bit lower, but I think Lively is over-rated in this forum by a lot. If I had pick 21/22 and he was there, I'd take him. But certainly not at 10, and hesitant at 15. I think he'll be a project with a useful ceiling but a very low floor, and would have benefited a lot by another year or two vs NCAA players.]

[SleepingHero]

https://twitter.com/JWeinbachNBA/status/...79680?s=20

The Pacers, Raptors, and Mavs could engage in a three-team deal that would send OG Anunoby to Indiana, multiple first-round picks that would include the No. 7 overall pick to Toronto, and Buddy Hield to Dallas.

Toronto is actively exploring options to move up in the draft.

[Mavs2021]

Wonder what the Suns could possibly offer to be a finalist for Beal, with the Heat. Must be a package around Ayton, wouldn’t it? 

Porzingis and Ayton on the Wizards, I don‘t know. 

And the Suns are one of the few teams with a better shooting guard than Beal in Booker, or do they want Booker to play point guard…? Strange from all perspectives, but what do I know.

Told you. New owners syndrome. They only care about big names. Whether the interest will be legit or not by new owners in Houston and Charlotte, I´m sure it will be the justification for Cuban why he had to give Kyrie the five year max. That was the only point of the Houston has interest in Kyrie leaks. Probably get one for Charlotte in the next week, too.