Trade & FA 2023-24: Stein-Ingram Trade Inevitable| LAL Want Lebron Back On Any Terms

[KillerLeft]

Patience for the sake of a better deal around the corner is also not a good plan. If we are to get Grant in the offseason with 2 FRPs, upgrading the team and hopefully getting out of playin range using 1 pick now is a good strategy too.

I think we tend to focus on the wrong difference between the two camps in these arguments.

I think what the people in favor of “waiting” or “being patient” are really saying in these situations is pretty simple: they don’t like the players being mentioned as trade targets and are not excited about the deals being discussed.

If you can’t afford to target players you think will help, the sane choice is probably to save up until you can. But again, I just think people disagree about how good these players are. That’s all it is.

[omahen]

Patience for the sake of a better deal around the corner is also not a good plan. If we are to get Grant in the offseason with 2 FRPs, upgrading the team and hopefully getting out of playin range using 1 pick now is a good strategy too.

I think patience is to often mistaken for sitting idle and not doing anything. My expectation is for FO to also work hard on the summer potentials and to have a clear target(s). I want them to create opportunity. Good front offices do that and succeed. Bad ones are trading for meh players. And not succeeding to do a good trade in the summer would mean that this front office didn't do their job.

Making a meh trade just because they are affraid nothing will be around in the summer, is not a sign of a good FO. Meh trade is trading 2027 for anything that is not a clear starter level player, basically third best guy on a team.

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They were rumored to have interest in Williams this summer. Maybe they still believe in him. 

Like the other poster pointed out about PJW status on the hornets. A change of scenery for both could be best for everyone.

Charlotte is not in win now mode. They are in gathering assets mode. I think they would have zero interest in straight up trade. And even if they would think there is hope in GW, why would they admit that loudly? Simple fact is they would be trading a better player.

[ItsGoTime]

I think we tend to focus on the wrong difference between the two camps in these arguments.

I think what the people in favor of “waiting” or “being patient” are really saying in these situations is pretty simple: they don’t like the players being mentioned as trade targets and are not excited about the deals being discussed.

If you can’t afford to target players you think will help, the sane choice is probably to save up until you can. But again, I just think people disagree about how good these players are. That’s all it is.

I don’t disagree with this, I use the word “upgrade” for that purpose. Many opinions out there about what an upgrade is. I just very much disagree on the plan of picking a point in time where everything is perfect for us to spend and calling it plan patience. It’s an upgrade business and the best deals hardly come when you are “prepared”.

[Smitty]

I think patience is to often mistaken for sitting idle and not doing anything. My expectation is for FO to also work hard on the summer potentials and to have a clear target(s). I want them to create opportunity. Good front offices do that and succeed. Bad ones are trading for meh players. And not succeeding to do a good trade in the summer would mean that this front office didn't do their job.

Making a meh trade just because they are affraid nothing will be around in the summer, is not a sign of a good FO. Meh trade is trading 2027 for anything that is not a clear starter level player, basically third best guy on a team.

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Charlotte is not in win now mode. They are in gathering assets mode. I think they would have zero interest in straight up trade. And even if they would think there is hope in GW, why would they admit that loudly? Simple fact is they would be trading a better player.

I think the hornets will make more than one move at the TDL. What they get for Rozier, Bridges, PJW, Richards, Hayward. Tons of cap space in the summer and picks. 

A PJW swap for Gwill is just part of the total rebuild process. (I don’t know what their opinion of Gwill is or their valuation of PJW) all of this is assumption. Maybe the difference is a SRP. Even so, I make the trade. Obviously it’s a no if it’s a FRP or anything crazy.

[ItsGoTime]

I think patience is to often mistaken for sitting idle and not doing anything. My expectation is for FO to also work hard on the summer potentials and to have a clear target(s). I want them to create opportunity. Good front offices do that and succeed. Bad ones are trading for meh players. And not succeeding to do a good trade in the summer would mean that this front office didn't do their job.

Making a meh trade just because they are affraid nothing will be around in the summer, is not a sign of a good FO. Meh trade is trading 2027 for anything that is not a clear starter level player, basically third best guy on a team.

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So, you say you would spend 2 FRPs in the offseason for your favorite 3rd option, but right now, at the TDL we can only use the 27 if it gets a 3rd option? Does not compute. I’m saying, right the other holes on the roster this TDL to make the team better capable of going straight into the playoffs AND in preparation of adding that final 3rd option piece in the offseason.

[omahen]

So, you say you would spend 2 FRPs in the offseason for your favorite 3rd option, but right now, at the TDL we can only use the 27 if it gets a 3rd option? Does not compute. I’m saying, right the other holes on the roster this TDL to make the team better capable of going straight into the playoffs AND in preparation of adding that final 3rd option piece in the offseason.

The list with names was limited, I am not saying Grant is the ideal option. At this point he seems as best one that might be available, but who knows what else can become available and perhaps it would take three picks. I just don't want to waste assets on players that are basically just another iteration of Wright/Richardson/Bullock/Wood or GWill. Most of us was convincing ourselves in all of those moves and how they would improve the team. I have learned my lesson and don't want to groundhog the mistakes. Just because we see the ideal scenario and ignore simple facts that the player might not be any better than he is. 

That is why I am pretty firm in my order of business. Bring the third best player on the team and then work around the edges when you also have a clear picture what is the next biggest need on the team.

[ItsGoTime]

The list with names was limited, I am not saying Grant is the ideal option. At this point he seems as best one that might be available, but who knows what else can become available and perhaps it would take three picks. I just don't want to waste assets on players that are basically just another iteration of Wright/Richardson/Bullock/Wood or GWill. Most of us was convincing ourselves in all of those moves and how they would improve the team. I have learned my lesson and don't want to groundhog the mistakes. Just because we see the ideal scenario and ignore simple facts that the player might not be any better than he is. 

That is why I am pretty firm in my order of business. Bring the third best player on the team and then work around the edges when you also have a clear picture what is the next biggest need on the team.

I just think 2 FRPs is plenty for a non-allstar 3rd option for a championship team and if they cost more, their salary will also be a large hindrance. 

My thought is get an upgrade or 2 at this TDL, finish out the rest of the roster in the offseason and finally let the team marinate for a season or 2.

We are also doing our team a disservice by the constant turnover.

[omahen]

I don’t disagree with this, I use the word “upgrade” for that purpose. Many opinions out there about what an upgrade is. I just very much disagree on the plan of picking a point in time where everything is perfect for us to spend and calling it plan patience. It’s an upgrade business and the best deals hardly come when you are “prepared”.

I can name at least two examples of patience.

NY of the past was always doing deals just for doing deals, always looking for something to be done and all it brought them was mediocrity. New FO changed that totally. They identified what they need on the team - what kind of players for what kind of roles. Than they did everything to make it happen and waited patiently until it happened. Brunson, OG,... They might be just one good player away from being a top team, and they still have plenty of assets to do it. I really admire their recent work.

Lakers. Everyone saw Westbrook deal was a disaster and basically expected them to dump him in the summer two years ago just to move on. They have been patiently waiting until TDL and a move that substantialy improved their team at the time. 

I think Mavs have plenty of role players, but lack the number three guy. I don't think shuffling role players and spending assets doing it will be any serious upgrade for this team. I don't want just an average PF. I want a good one. 

If the deal is available by just shuffling some contracts, I fully support it.

[F Gump]

This trade allows for a path to resign Bridges.

Mavs - Bridges, Hayward, 2 SRP’s
CHA - THJ, Gwill, Maxi, ‘27 FRP

So you think Bridges will re-sign for MLE money? (As we have discussed previously, that's the cap result from such a trade.)
1 I think there are many here who think that's not enough.
2 If that's all it takes, you only have to clear about 10M in room or so, not 40M, so you shouldn't have to do all that (in particular, give up 27 FRP).

[F Gump]

Of course. I just don't think you can make the case that the Mavs have to make a move at the deadline because their offseason moves tend to disappoint when I could just as easily point out that the Mavs burned the majority of tradeable assets in bad deadline trades.

 If both are true (and it's hard to argue they aren't), it sounds like the #1 priority move to make should be "Get a new person in charge of roster-building who is an Expert. Immediately."

[vfromlmf]

My biggest problem with PJ Washington is if he's so good, why is Cody Martin starting over him? I get that PJ averages a few mpg more than Martin, but before the Rozier trade, PJ was 6th in minutes, 6th in scoring, 5th in rebounding on a bad team. If we're talking about who the best players on that team are you have Bridges, Hayward, LaMelo, B Miller, and Rozier before he was traded who are clearly better.

January: Cody Martin 27.6 MPG | PJ Washington 27.9 MPG

[ItsGoTime]

I can name at least two examples of patience.

NY of the past was always doing deals just for doing deals, always looking for something to be done and all it brought them was mediocrity. New FO changed that totally. They identified what they need on the team - what kind of players for what kind of roles. Than they did everything to make it happen and waited patiently until it happened. Brunson, OG,... They might be just one good player away from being a top team, and they still have plenty of assets to do it. I really admire their recent work.

Lakers. Everyone saw Westbrook deal was a disaster and basically expected them to dump him in the summer two years ago just to move on. They have been patiently waiting until TDL and a move that substantialy improved their team at the time. 

I think Mavs have plenty of role players, but lack the number three guy. I don't think shuffling role players and spending assets doing it will be any serious upgrade for this team. I don't want just an average PF. I want a good one. 

If the deal is available by just shuffling some contracts, I fully support it.

If we don’t have Kyrie, I’ve said many times, patience would be easy to come by. Trade Kyrie this offseason to the Lakers for the 3 FRPs they will have, or better yet, a 3 way where we get a younger 2nd option (Lauri comes to mind) and still have assets and more time to finish out the roster. Kyrie fully changes that dynamic because by the time we get our 3rd option, Kyrie’s play has dipped to 3rd option guy and we’re back to square 1.

[F Gump]

 I'd like to add Isaiah Stewart, Gafford or Avdija before someone else grabs them.  I think each would be worth our top-10 protected 2027 pick.

I wouldn't trade FRP for any, but yes as to SRP for each.

If WAS packaged Gafford-Avdija, I'd want to do 2 SRP's, but if the players being sent can be any we wish, then might even do the FRP for both. Maybe. As a last resort. Maybe.

[Smitty]

So you think Bridges will re-sign for MLE money? (As we have discussed previously, that's the cap result from such a trade.)
1 I think there are many here who think that's not enough.
2 If that's all it takes, you only have to clear about 10M in room or so, not 40M, so you shouldn't have to do all that (in particular, give up 27 FRP).

The rest of my post goes into my reasoning for everything and one the Mavs would have to plan for in any Bridges trade. Im not the one interested in Bridges. The Mavs are and I think they will go through the same process on how to resign him.

The Hornets are taking on a lot of salary and PHX can offer a decent package for Bridges so you have to pay to play. Giving up the FRP is painful but a Nico special this offseason was getting back second rounders in the process.

The move to clear space to resign Bridges is trading Holmes (expiring) at the draft/start of new year. That’s where the second round pick(s) come into play.

[omahen]

If we don’t have Kyrie, I’ve said many times, patience would be easy to come by. Trade Kyrie this offseason to the Lakers for the 3 FRPs they will have, or better yet, a 3 way where we get a younger 2nd option (Lauri comes to mind) and still have assets and more time to finish out the roster. Kyrie fully changes that dynamic because by the time we get our 3rd option, Kyrie’s play has dipped to 3rd option guy and we’re back to square 1.

I don't think waiting for half a year marks the end of the Kyrie window.

[Chicagojk]

https://x.com/mavsfilmroom/status/175423...45835?s=46&t=iwQP5yZoJF3Ulzfb9MH7Cg

[ItsGoTime]

I don't think waiting for half a year marks the end of the Kyrie window.

Patience young grasshopper, don’t get the first 3rd option that comes by all because you can.

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https://x.com/mavsfilmroom/status/175423...45835?s=46&t=iwQP5yZoJF3Ulzfb9MH7Cg

Green for PJ and a first? Very well, I accept!

[omahen]

Directly from Stein:

League sources also say that the Hornets have designs on pursuing Josh Green from Dallas if P.J. Washington talks with the Mavericks go anywhere. The Mavericks, you’ll recall, refused to part with Green at the draft last June when Atlanta offered Clint Capela and the No. 15 pick to Dallas for Green and the No. 10 selection. The Mavericks subsequently signed Green to a three-year, $41 million contract extension in October.

Dallas has been frequently mentioned as a potential trade suitor for both Washington’s Kyle Kuzma and Charlotte’s Washington in recent weeks and are still, I’m told, prioritizing power forwards over small forwards in its quest to address the team’s size and defensive shortcomings.

[ItsGoTime]

BTW, someone that has directional say in the organization agrees with upgrading the roster now.

[SleepingHero]

Directly from Stein:

League sources also say that the Hornets have designs on pursuing Josh Green from Dallas if P.J. Washington talks with the Mavericks go anywhere. The Mavericks, you’ll recall, refused to part with Green at the draft last June when Atlanta offered Clint Capela and the No. 15 pick to Dallas for Green and the No. 10 selection. The Mavericks subsequently signed Green to a three-year, $41 million contract extension in October.

Dallas has been frequently mentioned as a potential trade suitor for both Washington’s Kyle Kuzma and Charlotte’s Washington in recent weeks and are still, I’m told, prioritizing power forwards over small forwards in its quest to address the team’s size and defensive shortcomings.

I like PJ. I don't see the sense for the Mavs though. CHA obviously wants a defensive 2 guard next to Lamelo and Green is that.

PJ fills a role, but swapping Green for PJ doesn't make sense to me.