Trade & FA 2023-24: Stein-Ingram Trade Inevitable| LAL Want Lebron Back On Any Terms

[mvossman]

I know I look like number 1 Siakam fan here, due to all the posts. I actually said several times he might not be perfect (and I would prefer Grant), but no number three guy is. My main argument is - if you can get such a good player for so few assets that Mavs have, there is imho really nothing to think about but make it happen.

Is Grant a better option than Siakam?  He doesn't rebound.  He doesn't create much for others.  He used to be known as a versatile defensive player, but his defensive advanced stats have been bad for years.  I realize some of that is due to being on a bad team, but he seems like a guy more concerned with getting his than being a high level defender.  

Siakam is turning 30 this season.  Is all of our current assets and a full max the right move?  Will it greatly increase our chances of winning it all in the next couple of years, or will it be another KP disaster?

[KillerLeft]

Is Grant a better option than Siakam?  He doesn't rebound.  He doesn't create much for others.  He used to be known as a versatile defensive player, but his defensive advanced stats have been bad for years.  I realize some of that is due to being on a bad team, but he seems like a guy more concerned with getting his than being a high level defender.  

Siakam is turning 30 this season.  Is all of our current assets and a full max the right move?  Will it greatly increase our chances of winning it all in the next couple of years, or will it be another KP disaster?

I think so, but it's kind of a guess. 

In theory he's a much better defender - IF he accepts the role. 
And he's clearly the better shooter off the catch. 

Those two things, alone, make him more attractive to me. But, like I said - you just don't know how it will work until they get here.

[DanSchwartzgan]

I don't think GSW with Paul makes much sense. They would still have Draymong at PF. Word from GSW is that they are looking to move Wiggins, as him and Kuminga don't work.

I”m not sure Wiggins works with Barrett either, so would Toronto rather have him or the expiring Paul (since you just talked about their financial situation).

I think if I were Toronto I’d want Kuminga and an expiring and a pick and call it a day.  Kuminga is a step back from Siakam (for now), but better fits the timeline of the rest of their better players.

I do agree with you from GS’s standpoint.  They need to send out real salary and let Paul’s expiring help their LT situation next season.

[ItsGoTime]

Another thing about Siakam and Toronto. They can pay him more than anyone else, but they would have huge cap problems doing that in two years. Giving Siakam a full max (42) and lets say 20 mil to Quickley would put them at 150 mil for just 10 player. This means letting Trent Jr walk. A season later Barnes will get max extension (only Schroeder and Boucher expire) and they will be at 160 mil for just 8 players. For a team that is not likely to be a contender. So, it is possible Toronto is not interested in giving Siakam a max deal, making it very likely he walks in the summer.

Sure, now do that same exercise with him here. The 3 contracts would be $125M to start next year. That leaves $47M under tax to add at least 11 players. All depends on the trade as far as what contracts we have going forward. Imagine having Maxi as 1 of those. I’m sure they will look to try and be right at the 1st or 2nd apron, but those paths are horribly tricky.

[omahen]

I think so, but it's kind of a guess. 

In theory he's a much better defender - IF he accepts the role. 
And he's clearly the better shooter off the catch. 

Those two things, alone, make him more attractive to me. But, like I said - you just don't know how it will work until they get here.

All of that plus he is also much cheaper and on a year shorter deal.

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I”m not sure Wiggins works with Barrett either, so would Toronto rather have him or the expiring Paul (since you just talked about their financial situation).

I think if I were Toronto I’d want Kuminga and an expiring and a pick and call it a day.  Kuminga is a step back from Siakam (for now), but better fits the timeline of the rest of their better players.

I do agree with you from GS’s standpoint.  They need to send out real salary and let Paul’s expiring help their LT situation next season.

We didn't understand eachother. I said Siakam is not a fit as long GSW has Draymond. And they seem to be committed to him

[MarkAguirreWrathofGod]

I think so, but it's kind of a guess. 

In theory he's a much better defender - IF he accepts the role. 
And he's clearly the better shooter off the catch. 

Those two things, alone, make him more attractive to me. But, like I said - you just don't know how it will work until they get here.

Put me in the camp of “yes” for Siakam if the price is right and we get the signal he will re-sign in the 40m range. I like what Dan mentioned about him also being a good small ball 5 option, especially in the playoffs. 

Jerami Grant is where the scouting and personal connection part of the league would come into play. I know he is well-liked as a person. But how is he viewed as a competitor. I’ve watched him since college and my impression is he’s a nice guy, everything has always come easily to him. He has put in the work to improve as a shooter. His contract runs to 2027-2028 (age 33) and increases each season to 36m. I like that he shoots well from the corner. He certainly has the athleticism to guard 3/4 and can also play a smidge of small ball 5. Just need larger guys around him in that case. 

Does anyone think 2027 unprotected for Jerami gets it done? No Green, Omax or Hardy. Would we be re-routing THJ in this scenario? Or try to do it with other contracts.

[KillerLeft]

Sure, now do that same exercise with him here. The 3 contracts would be $125M to start next year. That leaves $47M under tax to add at least 11 players. All depends on the trade as far as what contracts we have going forward. Imagine having Maxi as 1 of those. I’m sure they will look to try and be right at the 1st or 2nd apron, but those paths are horribly tricky.

Definitely a commitment to add ANY new player at a salary point like this. Mavs need to be pretty confident (more than I) that it's going to work before they do it, that's for sure.

[omahen]

Sure, now do that same exercise with him here. The 3 contracts would be $125M to start next year. That leaves $47M under tax to add at least 11 players. All depends on the trade as far as what contracts we have going forward. Imagine having Maxi as 1 of those. I’m sure they will look to try and be right at the 1st or 2nd apron, but those paths are horribly tricky.

I would say remaining under the second apron is a goal salary wise for a contender, that means 180 mil or 55 mil for remaining roster. Salary wise, if Dallas is moving 3 players, we are basically moving same salary as Siakam will get next season. So I think, there is plenty of room left. It really helps that two playoff rotation players (Exum, Lively) cost 8 mil combined. Lets say 4 end of bench players cost 10 mil. That means Mavs would have 37 mil for remaining 5 players. I have posted a couple of times - all big three of every contender costs roughly 125 mil. Mavs would not be anything special. Mavs will have tougher time once Luka super max kicks in.

[MarkAguirreWrathofGod]

Put me in the camp of “yes” for Siakam if the price is right and we get the signal he will re-sign in the 40m range. I like what Dan mentioned about him also being a good small ball 5 option, especially in the playoffs. 

Jerami Grant is where the scouting and personal connection part of the league would come into play. I know he is well-liked as a person. But how is he viewed as a competitor. I’ve watched him since college and my impression is he’s a nice guy, everything has always come easily to him. He has put in the work to improve as a shooter. His contract runs to 2027-2028 (age 33) and increases each season to 36m. I like that he shoots well from the corner. He certainly has the athleticism to guard 3/4 and can also play a smidge of small ball 5. Just need larger guys around him in that case. 

Does anyone think 2027 unprotected for Jerami gets it done? No Green, Omax or Hardy. Would we be re-routing THJ in this scenario? Or try to do it with other contracts.

Also wanted to add that Jerami Grant or Siakam raise our skill level and athleticism at the same time. I know everyone poo-poo’s the need for better offensive players, but having guys that can shoot, get to the hoop off the bounce AND switch in defense is hugely important in the playoffs. 

The more I think about it, price and contracts (and shooting) included, the more I like Jerami Grants fit.

[omahen]

Does anyone think 2027 unprotected for Jerami gets it done? No Green, Omax or Hardy. Would we be re-routing THJ in this scenario? Or try to do it with other contracts.

I am affraid not, as we don't have expiring salary to offer. Plus, every team has same accounting idea - trade for Siakam who will cost 42 mil or trade for a very similar quality player in Grant, who is 10 mil per year cheaper. While he might have got a big contract, a lot of teams could use a player like him and Portland is not in a hurry to do a trade for a poo poo platter.

[ItsGoTime]

I would say remaining under the second apron is a goal salary wise for a contender, that means 180 mil or 55 mil for remaining roster. Salary wise, if Dallas is moving 3 players, we are basically moving same salary as Siakam will get next season. So I think, there is plenty of room left. It really helps that two playoff rotation players (Exum, Lively) cost 8 mil combined. Lets say 4 end of bench players cost 10 mil. That means Mavs would have 37 mil for remaining 5 players. I have posted a couple of times - all big three of every contender costs roughly 125 mil. Mavs would not be anything special. Mavs will have tougher time once Luka super max kicks in.

For sure, but what’s the path to actually even get to that $180M salary (sportrac says $190M next year for supertax apron) with all the restrictions on acquiring players. Seems after we hit the 1st apron, the only way to add salary is vet min and resigning with early-Bird and Bird rights. In the offseason we would pretty much have to operate as a 1st apron team.

[MarkAguirreWrathofGod]

For sure, but what’s the path to actually even get to that $180M salary (sportrac says $190M next year for supertax apron) with all the restrictions on acquiring players. Seems after we hit the 1st apron, the only way to add salary is vet min and resigning with early-Bird and Bird rights. In the offseason we would pretty much have to operate as a 1st apron team.

We don’t have Bird Rights for Exum, correct? Since he signed for two years. We will be able to overpay our own youngsters their second contracts relative to other teams though.

[omahen]

Is all of our current assets and a full max the right move?  Will it greatly increase our chances of winning it all in the next couple of years, or will it be another KP disaster?

You never know. But, at some point you have to pull the trigger or you always remain middle of the pack. Imho, players like Grant and Siakam should in theory work with Mavs. If Shams report is to be believed, Mavs might share this opinion.

[MarkAguirreWrathofGod]

I am affraid not, as we don't have expiring salary to offer. Plus, every team has same accounting idea - trade for Siakam who will cost 42 mil or trade for a very similar quality player in Grant, who is 10 mil per year cheaper. While he might have got a big contract, a lot of teams could use a player like him and Portland is not in a hurry to do a trade for a poo poo platter.

You’re probably right. If they dump Brogdon first for a 1st and expiring maybe it wouldn’t matter as much? Or we send THJ to Orlando who sends Isaac and a small expiring? I think there are ways to be creative. I think Jerami would have to want to be here vs. other options too. He’s a Klutch guy. They tend to get players where they want to be, though that place hasn’t ever been here in my recollection. Is Hardy our only Klutch guy? One more reason not to play Seth Curry over him.

[Scott41theMavs]

You’re probably right. If they dump Brogdon first for a 1st and expiring maybe it wouldn’t matter as much? Or we send THJ to Orlando who sends Isaac and a small expiring? I think there are ways to be creative. I think Jerami would have to want to be here vs. other options too. He’s a Klutch guy. They tend to get players where they want to be, though that place hasn’t ever been here in my recollection. Is Hardy our only Klutch guy? One more reason not to play Seth Curry over him.

At least LeBron likes Luka.

[omahen]

For sure, but what’s the path to actually even get to that $180M salary (sportrac says $190M next year for supertax apron) with all the restrictions on acquiring players. Seems after we hit the 1st apron, the only way to add salary is vet min and resigning with early-Bird and Bird rights. In the offseason we would pretty much have to operate as a 1st apron team.

When you are over the first apron, you can take in 110 % of outgoing salary, compared to 125 % when under. You can't do SnT. 

Mavs have 172 mil committed to 13 players next season. Lets say THJ, Green and GW (or Holmes or Maxi) are the outgoing salary. This is roughly same money as Siakam will get with max deal. Mavs will have two more MLE level deals in the summer and still possibility to resign DJJ, if they dump at least one of those deals. 

These players will be under contract after the deal in the summer, assuming THJ, Green and GW are gone:
Luka,
Kyrie, Hardy, Seth (not guaranteed)
Exum,
Siakam, Omax
Lively, Powell, Holmes, Maxi

Add three min salary guys. You have Holmes and Maxi plus 2 picks to play around the edges.

[ItsGoTime]

We don’t have Bird Rights for Exum, correct? Since he signed for two years. We will be able to overpay our own youngsters their second contracts relative to other teams though.

Because of the 2 year contract we will have early-Bird rights which I think I saw someone say we can resign him to a contract close to MLE money.

[omahen]

You’re probably right. If they dump Brogdon first for a 1st and expiring maybe it wouldn’t matter as much? Or we send THJ to Orlando who sends Isaac and a small expiring? I think there are ways to be creative. I think Jerami would have to want to be here vs. other options too. He’s a Klutch guy. They tend to get players where they want to be, though that place hasn’t ever been here in my recollection. Is Hardy our only Klutch guy? One more reason not to play Seth Curry over him.

Orlando could be a good fit. They could use THJ and they have Isaac and Harris expiring. Perhaps they eat Holmes as a price to get THJ for two lesser players. Or perhaps we trade GW instead of Holmes to replace them the loss of Isaac. Although that move would ruin their cap space plans for the summer, whatever they might be.

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Mavs should have the assets to trade for Grant in the summer, if they wish so.

[mvossman]

Because of the 2 year contract we will have early-Bird rights which I think I saw someone say we can resign him to a contract close to MLE money.

Yep.  If we are competing against 20 mil free agency offers we are in trouble, but I think there is good chance he is willing to take small pay cut to sign early bird with Mavs vs MLE somewhere else.  I don't think we can extend him this offseason, but that would be the ideal situation.

[ItsGoTime]

When you are over the first apron, you can take in 110 % of outgoing salary, compared to 125 % when under. You can't do SnT. 

Mavs have 172 mil committed to 13 players next season. Lets say THJ, Green and GW (or Holmes or Maxi) are the outgoing salary. This is roughly same money as Siakam will get with max deal. Mavs will have two more MLE level deals in the summer and still possibility to resign DJJ, if they dump at least one of those deals. 

These players will be under contract after the deal in the summer, assuming THJ, Green and GW are gone:
Luka,
Kyrie, Hardy, Seth (not guaranteed)
Exum,
Siakam, Omax
Lively, Powell, Holmes, Maxi

Add three min salary guys. You have Holmes and Maxi plus 2 picks to play around the edges.

So, the inclusion of Green for sure helps the case of the salary being equal because without him, THJ salary declines, Holmes only goes up $800k while Siakam would get a $4M+ bump. 

As is, your leftover team listed is at $173Mish and is not a very well balanced roster. Yes, Holmes expiring, Maxi’s negative 2 years, Powell, Hardy and a couple FRPs might retrieve a decent package to go all in on. I had forgotten about the 110% trade spread as an avenue to adding salary, so there is a possibility of getting there, just very tricky as I said.