Trade & FA 2023-24: Stein-Ingram Trade Inevitable| LAL Want Lebron Back On Any Terms

[RoyTarpleysGhost]

Me too.  i think that's exactly the guy I would target.  I'm not sure what would be enough.  2027 unprotected, 2028 pick swap and Jaden Hardy?  Is that enough?

GS needs to win now with Steph. I doubt they care about picks or Hardy

[surfpuckmd]

This. I can't believe we're still having to talk about this. 

They were MISERABLE while he was here. They weren't a good team, and it was obviously his fault. I don't really care if it could've gone down a different way (I don't think it could have) because it went down the way it did. It was obvious since the freaking bubble that it wasn't going to work with him, and they traded him a full year after they should have. The whole ordeal was wheel-spinning of the highest order and the primary reason they find themselves having to soft rebuild now. 

It was CLEARLY a mistake to bring Porzingis here. A very, very costly one. Getting him out of here was not the mistake. That was wisdom.

It may have been a mistake in retrospect to trade for him but it was a bigger mistake to trade him for the bag of shit we acquired for him.  If that was the best we could do, then we should have just held onto him and tried to make it work.  The current iteration of Porzingis would have worked well with this current roster.  I honestly don't know if Porzingis would have evolved into the same player had he stayed in Dallas but it's possible he might have.  Better to hold onto an asset that has lost some value than to set it on fire.

[KillerLeft]

GS needs to win now with Steph. I doubt they care about picks or Hardy

They might care about THJ quite a bit though. Williams, too. Both of those guys fit there, imo. 

Can Kuminga shoot? He's the right type of athlete, that's for sure.

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It may have been a mistake in retrospect to trade for him but it was a bigger mistake to trade him for the bag of shit we acquired for him.  

Yeah, we're just not going to agree. I was BEGGING them to get rid of Porzingis for months and months before they did, and would've been happy with bellybutton lint by the time the trade went down. 

I wasn't a fan of Dinwiddie's before he played here, but I would prefer him on the Mavs than Porzingis. Straight up. I believe Dinwiddie is a better player.

The things I don't like about Porzingis are getting worse with every minute that passes.

[surfpuckmd]

I mean, I'm sure Luka didn't handle it perfectly, but the bottom line is that he should have been a spot up shooter, pick and pop, pick and roll guy and he didn't want to do that here.  He didn't want to set picks and instead wanted to ISO.  That wasn't necessary to play with Luka, it was necessary for him to be most effective, a concept that both Rick and Kidd tried to convince him of.  He is doing in Boston what we needed him to do here.  I'm not sure how its Luka's fault that KP didn't want to set picks.

I'm assuming that Luka asked that Porzingis be traded.  That's where I would assume some blame on Luka.  I think Rick deserves some blame as well for trying to use Porzingis as a decoy and having him just stand in the corner on offense too often.  I agree that the iso and post-ups didn't work well.  I have no doubt that Porzingis is a big reason why Porzingis didn't work out in Dallas.  

My biggest issue with the dynamic though is just how little we acquired when we traded him out.  The logic Cuban provided was that it was better for us to split the salary into two separate players.  That is the stupidest explanation ever provided for one of the stupidest trades in history.  If that was all Porzingis was worth, then we simply should have kept him and tried to rehab him.  

It's difficult to acquire talented players in the NBA.  Sending off Porzingis for less than nothing and letting Brunson walk were both really powerful examples of organizational failure.  

We're so dependent on two minimum salary players this season because of the Porzingis and Brunson catastrophes.

[omahen]

They might care about THJ quite a bit though. Williams, too. Both of those guys fit there, imo. 

Can Kuminga shoot? He's the right type of athlete, that's for sure.

Kuminga is a weak shooter. 28 % this year on 33 % career average. I like him, but I would much rather have a sure thing like Siakam. 

I think GSW needs to go for a serious upgrade, they will not be interested in guys like THJ. The only way for Kuminga could be imho a three way, where our pick would be considered as more valuable than Kuminga.

[surfpuckmd]

They might care about THJ quite a bit though. Williams, too. Both of those guys fit there, imo. 

Can Kuminga shoot? He's the right type of athlete, that's for sure.

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Yeah, we're just not going to agree. I was BEGGING them to get rid of Porzingis for months and months before they did, and would've been happy with bellybutton lint by the time the trade went down. 

I wasn't a fan of Dinwiddie's before he played here, but I would prefer him on the Mavs than Porzingis. Straight up. I believe Dinwiddie is a better player.

The things I don't like about Porzingis are getting worse with every minute that passes.

I'm not sure if I'm willing to agree to disagree.  

Just kidding.  

We should all probably return to the Siakam fantasy.

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GS needs to win now with Steph. I doubt they care about picks or Hardy

I'm they don't care about picks.  My presumption is it would be as part of a 3-way deal with the Raptors.  The reality is though that I think the Raptors would rather just keep Kuminga.  

IQ is looking like a good pickup for them.  A core of Scottie Barnes, IQ, Kuminga, RJ Barrett and Poetl is a pretty good start to a roster.

[StrandedOnBeauboisHill]

Kuminga is a weak shooter. 28 % this year on 33 % career average. I like him, but I would much rather have a sure thing like Siakam. 

I think GSW needs to go for a serious upgrade, they will not be interested in guys like THJ. The only way for Kuminga could be imho a three way, where our pick would be considered as more valuable than Kuminga.

Siakam is also 29% on the year and 32% on his career on a much larger sample size but I agree he's a much more proven talent overall.  It honestly makes his fit here concerning to me because the time he's on the floor with Luka he will be shoved in a corner and he's not super affective from there.  He will absolutely help defensively and with the rebounding and non Luka minutes.

Honestly, just bringing in a bigger body who has shown a knack to defend and has a little more talent than the players we have now will be an upgrade because bringing in a bad shooter won't bring our shooting around Luka down because it's already been very down for a while now (which will be an even bigger problem if THJ is the outgoing piece for a PF).  

I'm not surprised that folks have started souring on GWill because his ability to get to the rim is pretty crappy so when his shot isn't falling his negative impact is a lot more noticeable than other players BUT I am surprised that folks haven't begun to sour on DJJ more.  I think the reality is starting to set in that we can't space the floor properly with him (in my opinion).  He attacks closeouts off the dribble well so it's helpful but playoff defenses are going to ignore him completely and just pack the paint so he can't just take off over them and dare him to shoot.  He's quietly shot under 25% from deep for basically an entire month and I'm surprised that hasn't bothered many posters here yet.

Overall point is that is that we already have pretty crappy spacing as it is so bringing in a Siakam or Kuminga will not make that worse, depending on who is outgoing.

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Want to add for context that PJ Washington is 32% on the year and 36% on his career and Jerami Grant is 42% on the year and 36% on the year. I personally think they would both be better fits on this roster when you consider that plus the money you will have to spend on Siakam. Any one of those three would help the team though.

[Scott41theMavs]

Siakam is also 29% on the year and 32% on his career on a much larger sample size but I agree he's a much more proven talent overall.  It honestly makes his fit here concerning to me because the time he's on the floor with Luka he will be shoved in a corner and he's not super affective from there.  He will absolutely help defensively and with the rebounding and non Luka minutes.

Honestly, just bringing in a bigger body who has shown a knack to defend and has a little more talent than the players we have now will be an upgrade because bringing in a bad shooter won't bring our shooting around Luka down because it's already been very down for a while now (which will be an even bigger problem if THJ is the outgoing piece for a PF).  

I'm not surprised that folks have started souring on GWill because his ability to get to the rim is pretty crappy so when his shot isn't falling his negative impact is a lot more noticeable than other players BUT I am surprised that folks haven't begun to sour on DJJ more.  I think the reality is starting to set in that we can't space the floor properly with him (in my opinion).  He attacks closeouts off the dribble well so it's helpful but playoff defenses are going to ignore him completely and just pack the paint so he can't just take off over them and dare him to shoot.  He's quietly shot under 25% from deep for basically an entire month and I'm surprised that hasn't bothered many posters here yet.

Overall point is that is that we already have pretty crappy spacing as it is so bringing in a Siakam or Kuminga will not make that worse, depending on who is outgoing.

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Want to add for context that PJ Washington is 32% on the year and 36% on his career and Jerami Grant is 42% on the year and 36% on the year.  I personally think they would both be better fits on this roster when you consider that plus the money you will have to spend on Siakam.  Any one of those three would help the team though.

At least DJJ's descent to earth will make it a lot easier to re-sign him.

[StrandedOnBeauboisHill]

At least DJJ's descent to earth will make it a lot easier to re-sign him.

Been curious if other GMs saw DJJ's hot start as something real and consider him a decent basketball asset in a trade.  Someone who would be in a better position to resign him.  

I really like DJJ as a bench piece but just want to point out that the asset management is about selling high...

[HoosierDaddyKidd]

At least DJJ's descent to earth will make it a lot easier to re-sign him.

I wasn't expecting him to overachieve for a whole season. That's not who he's been throughout his career. He's a good 8th-9th man for the bench on a contending team with more talent than the Mavs.

[DanSchwartzgan]

Here was my round number analysis look:
1 RIGHT NOW - Mavs are already at or near tax line next year, which puts them about 7M below the apron. OKAY.
2 Trade result - Trade away $41M in salaries, bring in Siakam (max is a bit over 42M), is about a wash (as you put it, "keeps us around the tax give or take a million or two depending on what Siakam signs for). YES. BUT - that does not account for two empty roster slots added, at a total cap hit of more than $4M.
3 SW Holmes - Adds 8M in room ("he can be stretched to save another $8mm or so"). YES. BUT - that does not account for one empty roster slot added, at a total cap hit of more than $2M.

So the NT-MLE room for DJJ (about $12M) is reduced by about $6M (to around the Txp-MLE of $5.2M).



Like I said, I wasn't trying to shoot AT you, but rather get some better numbers in the conversational mix. That is, we need another $6M, in addition to all that. No offense intended, and apologies if I didn't say it properly. 

Is there some other avenue to DJJ money I don't see? Or alternately, is $6M or so enough?

Thanks for the explanation.  I’d still say $6-$9mm depending on whether you carry a 15th player or not and whether one of the 14 is a second round pick or not.  I do think $9mm is in the neighborhood, but who knows what happens between now and then.  He could go on a killer run in the playoffs and make all sorts of money or shoot 25% off the bench because we traded for someone to start in front of him.  Those scenarios would paint a wide variation of salary outcomes in my mind.

Also, I think it is much more realistic to ask Siakam to take Kyrie money or even $40mm flat as a starting number than to ask him to do the 30-30-35-35…as others have pointed out.  All probably mute as Jake F. Has  joined Stein in poo-pooing Mav interest in Siakam.

[surfpuckmd]

I wasn't expecting him to overachieve for a whole season. That's not who he's been throughout his career. He's a good 8th-9th man for the bench on a contending team with more talent than the Mavs.

Agreed.  He's been really good this season.  His value shouldn't be defined by his 3-point percentage.  His defense has been really good and much better than Grant Williams and Josh Green.  On offense, he's still elite and finishing lobs and finishing in transition.  He's actually showed some surprising ability to take the ball to the rim as well.

He's been our 5th-best player thus far.  If Grant Williams and Josh Green lived up to expectations, we'd be a really great team.

[KillerLeft]

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Want to add for context that PJ Washington is 32% on the year and 36% on his career and Jerami Grant is 42% on the year and 36% on the year.  I personally think they would both be better fits on this roster when you consider that plus the money you will have to spend on Siakam.  Any one of those three would help the team though.

I would love Washington.

[Scott41theMavs]

I would love Washington.

Has Washington improved defensively this year? I saw lots of advanced stats last summer that his defense was problematic.

[KillerLeft]

He's been our 5th-best player thus far.  If Grant Williams and Josh Green lived up to expectations, we'd be a really great team.

Agree with the above, and would add that Kyrie has been a little underwhelming, too.

[DanSchwartzgan]

Chris Haynes is saying GSW is interested in Siakam.  Haynes probably had to pull his arm out of CP3’s ass to write that, so I expect the sourcing to be pretty strong.

Toronto native Wiggins to Toronto?  He really seems to duplicate RJ Barrett.  Kuminga fits the timeline better?  Both?  The salary match has to be pretty tight with GS.  Is there a way Dallas gets involved.

Interesting fact…Kuminga and DJJ share the same agent (I don’t see that as a positive to any Kuminga to Dallas thoughts).  GSW fans think the team that gets Wiggins also GETS an asset (Moody?)

[SleepingHero]

Shams Charania (@ShamsCharania)
After sitting the final 18 minutes of Nuggets loss, Warriors forward Jonathan Kuminga has lost faith in Steve Kerr and no longer believes that Kerr will allow him to reach his full potential, sources say.

Story at @TheAthletic with @anthonyVslater:

[SleepingHero]

NBACentral (@TheDunkCentral)
Chris Haynes expects Dejounte Murray to be traded

“I do believe Dejounte Murray will likely be traded by the deadline. That’s my belief.”

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NBACentral (@TheDunkCentral)
The Golden State Warriors are a team to watch for Pascal Siakam, per @ChrisBHaynes

“There’s a wild horse team out there that I’ve been told to look out for by rival executives…The Golden State Warriors… I do think ultimately, this will be the trade deadline where Pascal is eventually moved.”

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NBACentral (@TheDunkCentral)
The Detroit Pistons are expected to trade for a few veterans to ‘right the ship,’ per @JLEdwardsIII

“Detroit will make a trade before Feb. 8. I’d bet good money on it. My feeling is that the Pistons will bring in a veteran or two in an attempt to try and right the ship down the final stretch, but I haven’t heard about anything being close to done or on the table as of now.”

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NBACentral (@TheDunkCentral)
Malik Beasley says he turned down $3-6 million offers from the Mavericks and Lakers and decided to choose Milwaukee for a starting role and championship potential

[SleepingHero]

NBACentral (@TheDunkCentral)
The Knicks have shown interest in Malcolm Brogdon, per @krispursiainen

[omahen]

Chris Haynes is saying GSW is interested in Siakam.  Haynes probably had to pull his arm out of CP3’s ass to write that, so I expect the sourcing to be pretty strong.

Toronto native Wiggins to Toronto?  He really seems to duplicate RJ Barrett.  Kuminga fits the timeline better?  Both?  The salary match has to be pretty tight with GS.  Is there a way Dallas gets involved.

Interesting fact…Kuminga and DJJ share the same agent (I don’t see that as a positive to any Kuminga to Dallas thoughts).  GSW fans think the team that gets Wiggins also GETS an asset (Moody?)

If Siakam would be going to GSW, there is another player that would make most sense for GSW to head the other way, as it would be very difficult to play him next to Siakam. Of course Toronto would hold very little interest in that guy, especially if Kuminga is also part of the deal. So a third team would most likely be needed.

And here our worries start

btw: Just a day or two ago I saw some opinions about that guys value and at least one FRP was mentioned. Not to take his contract, but pay for him. Don't remember where, but a credible publication.