Trade & FA 2023-24: Paul George to Test Free Agency After No Contract Extension

[SleepingHero]

If he could be had for cheap, I would be on board.  Most of the proposals regarding him involve adding a first.  Are you willing to go there?

No I wouldn't be going there. Very few role players are worth a 1st alone. Especially not bench guys. I'd be fine for 2 2nds.

Holmes+2 2nds for Stewart feels fair. Probably could even get away with one 2nd. 

If DET wants the 2027 first, they'd have to throw in Thompson. I'd give them Green+Hardy and the unprotected 2027 first for that addition.

Of course that's unrealistic. But that's the value I'm pegging our 2027 1st with.

[dirkfansince1998]

No I wouldn't be going there. Very few role players are worth a 1st alone. Especially not bench guys. I'd be fine for 2 2nds.

Holmes+2 2nds for Stewart feels fair. Probably could even get away with one 2nd. 

If DET wants the 2027 first, they'd have to throw in Thompson. I'd give them Green+Hardy and the unprotected 2027 first for that addition.

Of course that's unrealistic. But that's the value I'm pegging our 2027 1st with.

Would anyone consider Stewart/Hayes for Holmes/Hardy/2nds. Both players could benefit from a change of scenery. Hardy would be free to chuck away on a bad team. Hayes wouldn't have to carry as big of a playmaking load on offense. Focus on point of attack defense. Make some easy reads as a secondary playmaker.

[mvossman]

Would anyone consider Stewart/Hayes for Holmes/Hardy/2nds. Both players could benefit from a change of scenery. Hardy would be free to chuck away on a bad team. Hayes wouldn't have to carry as big of a playmaking load on offense. Focus on point of attack defense. Make some easy reads as a secondary playmaker.

If Hayes doesn't work out (the most likely scenario) you let him walk, which takes care of most the extra cap from Stewart's extension.  So its basically a Hardy for Stewart trade.  I probably don't do that a couple of days ago, but folks on here are turning me around on Stewart.

[DanSchwartzgan]

If Hayes doesn't work out (the most likely scenario) you let him walk, which takes care of most the extra cap from Stewart's extension.  So its basically a Hardy for Stewart trade.  I probably don't do that a couple of days ago, but folks on here are turning me around on Stewart.

That's how I look at it also.  Hardy and a second for Stewart (with next year's money largely a wash with Holmes and Hardy gone and presuming you don't keep Hayes...or sign him to a minimum).  With the emergence of Exum, Hardy's path is difficult here behind Exum, Green and THJ.  Also who is the higher priority for developmental minutes....OMax or Hardy?  There are only so many of those types of minutes to go around.  Hardy for Stewart moves assets from a position of abundance to a position of need.

Hayes is one of the worst offensive players in the league.  He has no right hand and no outside shot.  He moves the ball well and plays decent D.  Lots of similarities to Frankie Smokes (who is now a minimum wage guy).  I don't have an issue giving him a tryout for a few months, but expectations are low.  I do think something I mentioned in a previous post is kind of cool...Hayes's dad and Lively's mom were at Penn State at the same time for a good bit of their collegiate careers.

[DallasMaverick]

If Hayes doesn't work out (the most likely scenario) you let him walk, which takes care of most the extra cap from Stewart's extension.  So its basically a Hardy for Stewart trade.  I probably don't do that a couple of days ago, but folks on here are turning me around on Stewart.

It's kinda fascinating how we casually talk about trying out a player, but letting him walk if he doesn't work out.

...but, oh!, the moaning and complaining that went on when we tried out Christian Wood, he didn't work out, and we let him walk!

[Chicagojk]

That's how I look at it also.  Hardy and a second for Stewart (with next year's money largely a wash with Holmes and Hardy gone and presuming you don't keep Hayes...or sign him to a minimum).  With the emergence of Exum, Hardy's path is difficult here behind Exum, Green and THJ.  Also who is the higher priority for developmental minutes....OMax or Hardy?  There are only so many of those types of minutes to go around.  Hardy for Stewart moves assets from a position of abundance to a position of need.

Hayes is one of the worst offensive players in the league.  He has no right hand and no outside shot.  He moves the ball well and plays decent D.  Lots of similarities to Frankie Smokes (who is now a minimum wage guy).  I don't have an issue giving him a tryout for a few months, but expectations are low.  I do think something I mentioned in a previous post is kind of cool...Hayes's dad and Lively's mom were at Penn State at the same time for a good bit of their collegiate careers.

It is interesting to think about.  I have been disappointed in Hardy so far this year.  I knew there would be a minutes crunch for him but I thought he would make a stronger case that he deserves minutes.  I hope is the typical up and downs of a young player.  Never really is it a straight line.  I am a little concerned.  My hope for Hardy was eventually in the Hardaway role and also Kyrie insurance for down the road.   

If you were to move Hardy for Stewart, it isn't like you are trading for a 30 year old player.  Stewart is still young.   I really liked Stewart in the draft but to be honest have not really watched much of the Pistons.   Can he impact games when he doesn't have any plays called for him?  It is easy to look good in highlights but those don't tell the full story.   I would be really interested to know what his market is with the other teams.

[mvossman]

It's kinda fascinating how we casually talk about trying out a player, but letting him walk if he doesn't work out.

...but, oh!, the moaning and complaining that went on when we tried out Christian Wood, he didn't work out, and we let him walk!

The difference is that we spent a first round pick on Wood.  It was a late first, and we did clear a lot of junk contracts, and we probably got the guy we would have drafted at the cost of two seconds, but we still gave up draft capital.  In this case its more of a salary filler move.

[omahen]

Not sure where it was written that Detroit is looking to move Stewart. The news I posted stated that some teams, Mavs included, showed great interest in Stewart. But, perhaps I overlooked something.

Detroit has a very low payroll and very clean payroll moving forward. Zero necessity to dump salary. Stewart is their starter, so is Hayes, both of course starters on worst team in the league. I think there is little chance they would consider moving them for a negative contract like Holmes (third centre at best on Mavs), prospect like Hardy and a couple of second rounders. The move makes them worse in the short term and gives them very little hope (assets) to improve moving forward. If it is available, I would make the deal for sure. Just don't see it.

Personally, I don't have interest in the package if the cost is 2027 pick. Stewart is ok, young and can develop and I always liked his style of play (lots of energy, aggresive). But, I think he is a fringe starter at best. Mavs imho need third best player, not another fringe starter. Mavs goals should be set at better players, if they want to build a contender. So, be patient and save assets for the right move. I don't think this is it.

[loki]

Not sure where it was written that Detroit is looking to move Stewart. The news I posted stated that some teams, Mavs included, showed great interest in Stewart. But, perhaps I overlooked something.

Detroit has a very low payroll and very clean payroll moving forward. Zero necessity to dump salary. Stewart is their starter, so is Hayes, both of course starters on worst team in the league. I think there is little chance they would consider moving them for a negative contract like Holmes (third centre at best on Mavs), prospect like Hardy and a couple of second rounders. The move makes them worse in the short term and gives them very little hope (assets) to improve moving forward. If it is available, I would make the deal for sure. Just don't see it.

Personally, I don't have interest in the package if the cost is 2027 pick. Stewart is ok, young and can develop and I always liked his style of play (lots of energy, aggresive). But, I think he is a fringe starter at best. Mavs imho need third best player, not another fringe starter. Mavs goals should be set at better players, if they want to build a contender. So, be patient and save assets for the right move. I don't think this is it.

Agreed on Stewart's value. There's no reason for Detroit to dump him unless a meaningful asset is coming back. 

I'm kind of torn on whether he would be worth the 2027 1st. I realize he's just a complimentary piece, but I might gouge my eyes out if I have to continue watching THJ play PF. It might be worth it (depending on how much money you can dump on Detroit) if the Mavs FO really feels he can be the Naz Reid-like backup big they need.

Another thing I'm not sure of is whether it's realistic for the Mavs to land a third best player with the 2027 1st + some combo of Green/Hardy/Omax. At some point they may have to set their sights lower. If they do end up dealing the pick, they would still have the 2031 1st coming available to trade in the offseason, which should be even more valuable.

[Winter]

I went through several news articles about Stewart. While several teams have expressed interest, there's no indication the Detroit wants to move Stewart. And while Detroit may need to do something, competition for Stewart seems to indicate the price would be pretty high.

My guess is that the Detroit losing streak has prompted several teams to inquire about players - which in turn has generated rumors.

[ItsGoTime]

Those that won’t pay $15M for their backup C are looking at it wrong. Would you pay $8M for your backup C? Cool. Then you’re paying $7M for your backup (maybe starting) PF.

Savings.

It’s also a flat $15M which will be below MLE by the end of the contract.

[loki]

After some very detailed analysis (watching a few highlight videos) it seems that Stewart has absolutely no touch around the basket. He's only shooting 54% within 5 ft of the rim so far this year. Not sure that's going to cut it with Luka.

Some pretty ugly misses here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRZpcXmjgqQ

[ItsGoTime]

If he could be had for cheap, I would be on board.  Most of the proposals regarding him involve adding a first.  Are you willing to go there?

The proposal I made did not have any picks attached, leaving it up to the reader to finish out the remainder of the compensation. Dan and I agreed that WE would be willing to give up the 27, before that conversation though I said 2 SRPs would be too little, but maybe 1 or 2 pick swaps does it.

Like I said, you guys go CRAZY once the 27 is a glimmer of a thought. It’s mine, my precious.

[MarkAguirreWrathofGod]

The proposal I made did not have any picks attached, leaving it up to the reader to finish out the remainder of the compensation. Dan and I agreed that WE would be willing to give up the 27, before that conversation though I said 2 SRPs would be too little, but maybe 1 or 2 pick swaps does it.

Like I said, you guys go CRAZY once the 27 is a glimmer of a thought. It’s mine, my precious.

Why is it going CRAZY to say you wouldn’t trade the pick for Stewart? There are some people that would, and some who wouldn’t. For me, it would depend on the parameters (what protections on the pick, what salary and how much we are dumping) but I would lean towards “no.” Essentially because I want us to save assets for the elusive 3rd best player— preferably a big wing aka our very own Aaron Gordon. And I’d like to keep Omax (especially) and Green while doing that, if possible.

It’s not a non-starter for me to deal the ‘27. And I like Stewart. But would probably want someone more skilled to include ‘27, unless the protections were quite favorable or the savings created allowed for more maneuvering. Or some combination of both.

[ItsGoTime]

Why is it going CRAZY to say you wouldn’t trade the pick for Stewart? There are some people that would, and some who wouldn’t. For me, it would depend on the parameters (what protections on the pick, what salary and how much we are dumping) but I would lean towards “no.” Essentially because I want us to save assets for the elusive 3rd best player— preferably a big wing aka our very own Aaron Gordon. And I’d like to keep Omax (especially) and Green while doing that, if possible.

It’s not a non-starter for me to deal the ‘27. And I like Stewart. But would probably want someone more skilled to include ‘27, unless the protections were quite favorable or the savings created allowed for more maneuvering. Or some combination of both.

Because of all the hyperbole and attacks that ensue after the mention. The person I quoted on multiple occasions talks about the trade proposed as being the first for Stewart, which is hardly the case.

I proposed THJ/Maxi for Bojan/Stewart. I then agreed with Dan about including the first in the deal. Here’s why:

Getting THJ off the roster reopens the possibility of making another WCF run (like it did last time). Getting off Maxi’s 3 injury prone years of contract is a plus as well. We then add Bojan who while I am not a big fan of, he brings so much more than THJ, namely being a bigger body to help make up for our lack of size on top of his much more versatile offense.

Our defense has to become one that protects the paint since having Kyrie and Luka makes it neigh impossible to defend the perimeter well. Bojan makes the paint more “tree-like” as opposed to THJ.

The benefits of getting Stewart has been covered fairly well.

[SleepingHero]

After some very detailed analysis (watching a few highlight videos) it seems that Stewart has absolutely no touch around the basket. He's only shooting 54% within 5 ft of the rim so far this year. Not sure that's going to cut it with Luka.

Some pretty ugly misses here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRZpcXmjgqQ

You could also try and project that his looks around the basket will become much easier with a guy like Luka around. Powell, Lively, Jordan, Wood, all had close to career highs close or above 70% shooting at the rim (Powell: 77.8%* Lively: 83.0%*  Jordan: 70.7% Wood: 69.7%) with Luka feeding them.

Hard to imagine a burly guy like Stewart not benefitting from that.

[SleepingHero]

Would anyone consider Stewart/Hayes for Holmes/Hardy/2nds. Both players could benefit from a change of scenery. Hardy would be free to chuck away on a bad team. Hayes wouldn't have to carry as big of a playmaking load on offense. Focus on point of attack defense. Make some easy reads as a secondary playmaker.

This feels like something that makes sense taking into account this past offseason's rumors. 

But boy is it hard to stomach cutting loose on Hardy after a rough couple of months. Hayes is not an NBA basketball player the same way Franky Smokes isn't one.  He has some good defensive metrics and can play an ancillary role, but like others have said this is basically a Stewart for Hardy trade straight up. 

In this sort of trade I don't think the 2nds are necessary as Hardy has shown a higher peak than Stewart at this point. If anything DET should be the one throwing in a couple of 2nds since the Mavs are the one's taking the biggest contract, solving their backcourt glut, and resolving their reluctance to give Hayes an extension.

[mvossman]

Because of all the hyperbole and attacks that ensue after the mention. The person I quoted on multiple occasions talks about the trade proposed as being the first for Stewart, which is hardly the case.

I proposed THJ/Maxi for Bojan/Stewart. I then agreed with Dan about including the first in the deal. Here’s why:

Getting THJ off the roster reopens the possibility of making another WCF run (like it did last time). Getting off Maxi’s 3 injury prone years of contract is a plus as well. We then add Bojan who while I am not a big fan of, he brings so much more than THJ, namely being a bigger body to help make up for our lack of size on top of his much more versatile offense.

Our defense has to become one that protects the paint since having Kyrie and Luka makes it neigh impossible to defend the perimeter well. Bojan makes the paint more “tree-like” as opposed to THJ.

The benefits of getting Stewart has been covered fairly well.

What attacks and Hyperbole?  I thought we were having an intelligent discussion regarding the merits of Stweart on this team and what he is worth?  

I made the comment that many of the suggested trade proposals "involving" Stewart included an unprotected first, a comment you have quoted/responded to multiple times.  I did not say it was a straight swap for a first, although I can how that could be inferred.

I have also clarified that I don't put a lot of value in a short term THJ for Bojan swap, so to me the majority of the value of the first would be Stewart.  I could be wrong, but I feel like most folks would agree that trading THJ+Holmes/Maxi + unprotected first for Bojan + Stewart is much more expensive than Holmes + 2 seconds for Stewart.  I think his value is somewhere in the middle.  Possibly for Hardy.  You may feel different.  I'm ok if we disagree.

EDIT: actually I reread my comment. My intent was to say trades involving him, but it looks I worded it poorly and said involving a first. Maybe thats what triggered. Not my intent to trigger. I do most of these posts while working and sometimes not the most thorough.

[SleepingHero]

Would you guys do this trade along with the 2027 first? 

Claxton is right in that sweet spot of big man that isn't too good to usurp Lively and still lets us do the things we want to do for 48 minutes. DFS coming back home playing his old role just makes sense and gives us more size.

Luka-Kyrie-DFS-DJJ-Lively gives us more dynamic defending and size without sacrificing the 3. 

Bench rotation 1 when Kyrie along with Lively exits at 7 mins: Luka-Exum-DFS-Grant-Claxton. 

Bench rotation 2 when Luka rests: Kyrie-THJ-Exum-DJJ-Claxton

We basically fix all of our rotation issues and size with this 1 trade.

[ThisIStheYear]

Of course. Why would the Nets? Claxton has been one of the most efficient players in the league and he can rebound and defend. He’s an outstanding player. I’d give all that up just for him. But can’t see why the Nets would take it.