Trade & FA 2023-24: Paul George to Test Free Agency After No Contract Extension

[ItsGoTime]

I don't know for sure without going back and looking, but I think I proposed THJ/Holmes last week...which also works and leaves Dallas just under the tax.

I'm a fan of the Bojan for THJ swap in terms of putting another offensive creator on the floor.  It will cost something to make that swap.  If we have to pay something for that, then I'd rather pay more and do the Stewart/Holmes swap too.  That gets you someone who can play two positions and hit 3's at a much younger age on top of the THJ/Bojan part.

Ya, I started to put THJ/Maxi or Holmes, then realized how many C’s they have on roster, but if they’d rather have Holmes (shorter term contract) I’m all for it.

[DanSchwartzgan]

That’s why I said it works money-wise. I think the difference all around is worth a FRP, but I know saying that around here brings out the boo birds.  

Agreed.  That is why I nuance the issue with words like "draft compensation" now as I'm tired of dealing with that every time it comes up.  But, if you can get the benefit of moving from THJ to Bojan and also get a long term piece (even if he's just a good two position backup), I'm willing to do 2027 in that deal.

[ItsGoTime]

Agreed.  That is why I nuance the issue with words like "draft compensation" now as I'm tired of dealing with that every time it comes up.  But, if you can get the benefit of moving from THJ to Bojan and also get a long term piece (even if he's just a good two position backup), I'm willing to do 2027 in that deal.

Oh ya, especially when you add the word “unprotected”, people go ape-____ over that word. I honestly prefer unprotected as opposed to the protections that tie up draft capital for years on end like we’re seeing with the last NYK pick. Just extract the value out of the word and walk away!

[Winter]

The Bogan vs THj concept has Bogan winning most statistical metrics. It's really the 3-year age difference that closes the gap. The fact that Bojan can create, as Dan said, is a pretty important plus.

The draft pick is not as troublesome to me if that gets in the mix. It's not likely that we get a better player that Stewart in the draft. Stewart is young, tough, and has had some good games as a Piston. The Mavs may not get another shot at that kind of player... one who is just coming into his own looks NBA-ready. He's athletic enough to be moved around and is still pretty darn scary under the basket.

[mvossman]

I'm struggling a bit with the Stuart fit. He seems like a tweener to me. He does not protect the rim and he is not a plus perimeter defender. He is not a rim runner, and historically he has been a 33% shooter from three on moderate volume, with an uptick in the small sample of quarter season. Is the plan for him to be a backup center? Will he truly provide enough spacing for 5 out? Can he play next to Lively? Does he make sense as the backup PF? I can see the argument that he has versatility to play all of those roles, and the argument that he doesn't really fit in any of them very well.

[mvossman]

The Bogan vs THj concept has Bogan winning most statistical metrics. It's really the 3-year age difference that closes the gap. The fact that Bojan can create, as Dan said, is a pretty important plus.

The draft pick is not as troublesome to me if that gets in the mix. It's not likely that we get a better player that Stewart in the draft. Stewart is young, tough, and has had some good games as a Piston. The Mavs may not get another shot at that kind of player... one who is just coming into his own looks NBA-ready. He's athletic enough to be moved around and is still pretty darn scary under the basket.

I mean we signed two guys to min deals that I would rather have than Stewart, so the opportunities are out there.  He is making 15 mil a year.  I'm not sure he is worth that yet, let alone an unprotected first on top.  It does not help that (as mentioned above) I struggle to see his fit.

[Chicagojk]

https://x.com/johnhollinger/status/17368...77983?s=46&t=iwQP5yZoJF3Ulzfb9MH7Cg

[Mavs2021]

https://twitter.com/TheDunkCentral/statu...5405162595



Danny Ainge at it again...

I have evaluated Maxi at three first round picks and Holmes at two first round picks. It´s a done deal.  

These stupid trade demands are really getting out of hand. Maybe it´s time to put in a final year no trade clause, that allows players to turn down any last contract year trade to teams that they don´t fancy. That way the threat of losing players for nothing increases significantly and you are forced to be at least somewhat reasonable.

[Winter]

I mean we signed two guys to min deals that I would rather have than Stewart, so the opportunities are out there.  He is making 15 mil a year.  I'm not sure he is worth that yet, let alone an unprotected first on top.  It does not help that (as mentioned above) I struggle to see his fit.

I hear what you're saying, but he can rebound and he's been largely a center on this Detroit team (and a physical presence). People frequently speak about his high motor. He's been at Detroit for his 4-year career, and several articles from past years have Detroit focusing on his offensive game because that where he was most challenged. His defense is an unknown to me, but his head and work ethic seems to be in the right place. 

The Mavs need another center, and an athletic one who could play PF in a pinch seems like a gamble worth taking.

[Mavs2021]

He recently became only the third player in NBA history (joining Rudy Gobert and Dikembe Mutombo) to record 20 points, 15 rebounds, 5 blocks and 100% shooting in a game.

So that averages out to a projection of 3.5 DPOY awards and 5.5 ASG appearances. No pressure Derek.

[Knutsen]

Cool.   I just don't see how that helps Detroit.  Who knows with Detroit though.   

Stewart is a young player on a long term contract.   Bogi has a shorter contract than Hardaway.    Seems like they could get better individual pieces if they traded both seperately.

Question is: would you give up Hardy to get Stewart? Because I fear that‘s what it‘ll come down to.

[mvossman]

I hear what you're saying, but he can rebound and he's been largely a center on this Detroit team (and a physical presence). People frequently speak about his high motor. He's been at Detroit for his 4-year career, and several articles from past years have Detroit focusing on his offensive game because that where he was most challenged. His defense is an unknown to me, but his head and work ethic seems to be in the right place. 

The Mavs need another center, and an athletic one who could play PF in a pinch seems like a gamble worth taking.

45 mil for 3 years and an unprotected first is a big gamble for a backup center who can play PF in a pinch.  I would argue Bitadze is a better fit for what we are looking for and he was a min signing.  I would rather go dumpster diving in the buyout market (Drummond) than send that much out on a backup center.  Next offseason Holmes will probably be sent out in a trade, Powell will clearly be a 3rd center and Maxi a PF.  Should be easier to convince a decent min center to sign with us.

[Winter]

Well, "next off-season" means we're still in a bad spot this season, and we're a playoff team this season. And I certainly don't think Stewart is the equivalent of an expensive "dumpster" pick up. He's a first-round pick who has consistently played 30 minutes a game.

But, you have a point. I would need to see the entire trade since it would not likely be Stewart alone.

[Chicagojk]

Stewart and Killian Hayes were dnp-coaches decision tonight

[DanSchwartzgan]

Stewart and Killian Hayes were dnp-coaches decision tonight

I noticed that too.  Stewart missed Saturday also with a shoulder issue.  Hayes was declared out today with an illness.

Another way to make the money work is Holmes/Hardy for Stewart/Hayes.  Please don’t tell Killer as he won’t be happy.

Interesting factoid if this were to happen…Hayes’s dad DeRon and Lively’s mom Katherine overlapped three of their years at Penn State.



Edit: As a reminder, Dallas and Detroit were in talks in late July and Hayes was in that deal. Here is reporting from Stein at the time:

“Recent trade talks between Detroit and Dallas, I'm told, were sparked by the Pistons' determination to ease a backcourt logjam by trading Killian Hayes and gained little traction. While the Mavericks are indeed among the teams with a longstanding interest in acquiring Detroit's Bojan Bogdanović, their trade priority at this point of the offseason is still believed to be an upgrade at center. The Pistons have been seeking no less than a future first-round pick for Bogdanović for months.”

It doesn't seem that far fetched that this could morph from Bojan/Hayes to Stewart/Hayes. Detroit is in a Bird-Rights Trap with Hayes. You have to appear to at least get something when your high pick is a free agent and you don't want him.

[MFFL]

Shams Charania
13m
The Memphis Grizzlies have waived F/C Kenneth Lofton Jr., league sources tell @TheAthletic. The move allows the Grizzlies to keep Bismack Biyombo as star guard Ja Morant makes his season debut Tuesday in New Orleans.

[DanSchwartzgan]

I'm struggling a bit with the Stuart fit.  He seems like a tweener to me.  He does not protect the rim and he is not a plus perimeter defender.  He is not a rim runner, and historically he has been a 33% shooter from three on moderate volume, with an uptick in the small sample of quarter season.  Is the plan for him to be a backup center?  Will he truly provide enough spacing for 5 out?  Can he play next to Lively?  Does he make sense as the backup PF?  I can see the argument that he has versatility to play all of those roles, and the argument that he doesn't really fit in any of them very well.

The thing that I'm most interested in is the THJ for Bojan part of this.  I don't want to pay an unprotected first for that, but if I can fill another hole simultaneously, I'm willing to talk.  Someone like Stewart at age 22 gives you someone who will still be contributing when that pick is made (Bojan won't, but he'd help tremendously in the here and now).

As I was reading what you wrote above I was thinking that the same could be largely said about GWill.  People cite him as a small-ball five, but he's not a rim protector and not great on the perimeter defensively either.  If you consider Williams and Stewart to be a wash defensively (and I'm not sure that's true) you are basically trading Stewart's rebounding and beef for GWill's higher 3%.  

I'm not saying you are wrong.  In fact, your last sentence is well put.  We just won't know what he looks like here until he's here.  The stink of being on a Detroit team is pervasive.  Stewart is rated as a good defender and his first two years he had a block rate higher than Maxi's best two years (and we consider Maxi a rim protector).  If he can hit 37% of his 3's, he can absolutely play next to Lively.   But, I'm not paying an unprotected pick for Stewart.  I'm paying the pick because I get the Bojan upgrade AND Stewart.

[ThisIStheYear]

I’m a no on giving up assets for a highly paid player on a 2 win team. I’m a hell no to bringing in two. They’re just overrated or bad players who get opportunity. Stewart has a PER of 9 and is well below average on most of the summary stats I’ve seen. He has a lowish true shooting percentage also for his position. No interest in spending $15 million a year for that. Would rather look to the Euro league in the summer and/ or trade Hardy for a developing G Leaguer like Leonard Miller.

[vfromlmf]

I happen to think Isaiah Stewart is the ideal target for this team. This team needs length and physicality. They can't match up with teams like Denver.

Stewart fouls too much but he brings the wood physically and he's a versatile switchable defender who doesn't need the ball. He punishes people. He takes open shots just like GWill and DJJ. He's not a center but he can play the 4 and 5. He would certainly start at PF and his 3pt percentage and overall scoring efficiency would go up just like everyone else who plays next to Luka. I wouldn't worry about this team offensively at all. Acquiring Stewart would be about defense, defensive rebounding, size, and toughness.

I'll add, the plan would be to start Stewart next to Lively and GWill. Three guys with good size at 3-4-5, who can set solid screens and defend multiple positions.

[DanSchwartzgan]

I happen to think Isaiah Stewart is the ideal target for this team. This team needs length and physicality. They can't match up with teams like Denver.

Stewart fouls too much but he brings the wood physically and he's a versatile switchable defender who doesn't need the ball. He punishes people. He takes open shots just like GWill and DJJ. He's not a center but he can play the 4 and 5. He would certainly start at PF and his 3pt percentage and overall scoring efficiency would go up just like everyone else who plays next to Luka. I wouldn't worry about this team offensively at all. Acquiring Stewart would be about defense, defensive rebounding, size, and toughness.

I'll add, the plan would be to start Stewart next to Lively and GWill. Three guys with good size at 3-4-5, who can set solid screens and defend multiple positions.

I was with you all the way til the end.  I would start either DJJ or Exum with Stewart and push GWill to the bench.

Which brings up an interesting question.  If we had Stewart on this team already and someone proposed a trade for Boston's backup 4/3 (some guy named Grant Williams).  He's a bit undersized (especially next to our skinny rookie center), but he hits a high percentage of corner 3's.  Do we make that deal?  Having seen the GWill show for two months now, I probably stick with the bigger guy who rebounds (and probably defends) better.