Trade & FA 2023-24: Stein-Ingram Trade Inevitable| LAL Want Lebron Back On Any Terms

[WillE]

We still have part of the MLE. Would it be prudent (or can it be done) to renegotiate his contract and give him more money for more years?

No.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q59

[ItsGoTime]

No.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q59

That sucks. Why can’t I have my cake and eat it too?

---

Would you rather Hartenstein or DJJ?  I don't think we can extend a one year deal.  I believe the only avenue to sign DJJ is exceptions, and if he keeps playing like this it will probably take the same MLE that Hartenstein would (which will take finagling to have).

Depends on all the other moves.

[loki]

I believe they have to stay under the tax line in order to use the full MLE, right?  If they get to the 1st apron they would have to use the tax MLE which might not be enough.

You can be in the tax and still use the full MLE. Just have to stay under the 1st apron.

[MarkAguirreWrathofGod]

You can be in the tax and still use the full MLE. Just have to stay under the 1st apron.

Is that possible with Green’s extension kicking in? Or would we have to move a contract like Holmes for air?

[MarkAguirreWrathofGod]

I remember making a post before the season that went something like— “with Lively, Omax, Hardy and 3 first round picks and swaps, I think we may have the ammo or even be favorites to land Embiid!” And now if they called about a deal involving Embiid for Lively I think I’d be like, “We Good.” Lively just seems to get better all the time. What a smart kid. At the rate he is improving, I wouldnt be shocked if he is spacing the floor like Brooke Lopez two years from now. He’s 19.

[surfpuckmd]

I would, too, if Thompson was ready to come off of the bench and re-sign for THJ money. Is he ready to do either of those things, or is he going to do what seems likely to me and demand a starter's role and paycheck, ruining some other team? He's washed, obviously, at least to the extent that he'll never be a great defender and splash brother again. He's probably still better than THJ, so I get it...just rocky waters ahead on that path, imo.

If Thompson is better than THJ, it's not by much.  THJ is actually shooting much better from 3 this season-  THJ at 39% and Klay at 34%.  

Klay is probably a little better defensively.  Neither is very good on that end.  

I'd rather have THJ here.  He took a discount to stay with the Mavericks rather than sign with the Pelicans.  The declining contract is nice.  I like THJ and think we should keep him here.

If we send him to the Warriors, Draymond Green might beat him to death.  THJ deserves better.   I don't see that Klay really improves our team that much.  I also don't think the Warriors would trade him unless it's for an upgrade.

[KillerLeft]

If Thompson is better than THJ, it's not by much.  THJ is actually shooting much better from 3 this season-  THJ at 39% and Klay at 34%.  

Klay is probably a little better defensively.  Neither is very good on that end.  

I'd rather have THJ here.  He took a discount to stay with the Mavericks rather than sign with the Pelicans.  The declining contract is nice.  I like THJ and think we should keep him here.

If we send him to the Warriors, Draymond Green might beat him to death.  THJ deserves better.   I don't see that Klay really improves our team that much.  I also don't think the Warriors would trade him unless it's for an upgrade.

Two positive THJ posts in one day, neither of which was written by me????!!!!

I never thought I'd see the day.

[F Gump]

Is that possible with Green’s extension kicking in? Or would we have to move a contract like Holmes for air?

Right now the Mavs are right at the 1st Apron [Edit Note - That should have said "Tax Line"and the 1st Apron/Hard Cap number will be about 7.35M higher, which means there is potentially a bit more room to work with] in 2024-25, with the commitments they already have and a roster of 14. That includes Holmes.

The cap is projected at 142M, and the corresponding MLE is projected at 12.95M. Holmes will be making 12.877M. So if you erase Holmes, you can pay a player making the MLE (or almost all of it). If Kleber is healthy, Holmes seems very expendable this season to swap for an expiring-contract player. (And if Kleber isn't healthy, wouldn't be and his 11M salary be shopped too?)

Where the cap actually lands does impact those numbers.

All of that assumes there are no other changes to the roster. But it's more likely that multiple moves happen between now and then, which changes all the math.

One of the bigger unknowns is the progress of OMax. Will he show enough this season where they don't feel compelled to chase a big wing or PF type? That is going to make a significant difference in their roster building and how they allocate future payroll, one way or the other.

[HoosierDaddyKid]

I remember making a post before the season that went something like— “with Lively, Omax, Hardy and 3 first round picks and swaps, I think we may have the ammo or even be favorites to land Embiid!” And now if they called about a deal involving Embiid for Lively I think I’d be like, “We Good.” Lively just seems to get better all the time. What a smart kid. At the rate he is improving, I wouldnt be shocked if he is spacing the floor like Brooke Lopez two years from now. He’s 19.

We good? Not me. Lively would be gone in heartbeat if it were me. Embiid is a monster. Most dominant big since Shaq.

[ThisIStheYear]

It’s time to change expectations. The Mavs are contenders. Nice job front office. They don’t need a back up center. They have a franchise center in the starting lineup and 3 backups who have started in this league as recently as last season. They have the best player in the NBA. They have a second best player who’s a top 25 player in the NBA. They’ve found a Swiss Army knife two way player who can score 15 a game. They have a sixth man of the year candidate. They even have some wing depth. They have guys like Curry and Hardy who are out of the regular rotation but can still come in and give quality minutes and even be a threat. All they really need is an effective “tall” 4 who can compliment Grant and push him into a backup role. Grant as the 7th or 8th man on your roster is a good place to be. They’re just one very good non star player from achieving that, a player that is not easy to find but not super hard to either. Hopefully, they keep enough salary flexibility to resign DJj when they acquire that player (or maybe Omax can learn to shoot so we have a replacement). The Mavs should go for it this year, not recklessly, but aggressively.

And honestly, Grant needs to come off the bench when DJj is healthy even if the Mavs don’t find a trade. DJj is the better player.

[Chicagojk]

For Dallas, it certainly helps when you can come to trades in a position of strength. When guys are playing well and are attractive, it is always much easier to call other teams.

I call Jones Jr, Grant, Exum, Lively, and hopefully Green as "do your job guys". We didn't have guys like this last year. With the exception of DFS. You have two stars, so you just want guys who will fit next to our stars and do little things that impact winning. So far, Dallas has gotten this. Regardless who Dallas targets in a trade the next year or so, we need to make sure we have the "do your job" guys. It makes everything so much easier.

[mvossman]

And honestly, Grant needs to come off the bench when DJj is healthy even if the Mavs don’t find a trade. DJj is the better player.

Not ready to make this call yet.  DJJ is performing at a wildly higher level than he has in the past offensively, and its still a fairly small sample.  We have seen players go on 20 game runs and then come back down to earth.  If this is who he is, my biggest concern is holding on to him past this season.

[MarkAguirreWrathofGod]

We good? Not me. Lively would be gone in heartbeat if it were me. Embiid is a monster. Most dominant big since Shaq.

Totally get where you are coming from. Embiid is a great two-way player and dominant. But the equation wouldn’t be Embiid for Lively straight up. They would want Lively, Omax, Green and our 3 first round picks. Embiid also has a ton of mileage on him even though he’s only 29 and has he EVER been healthy for a post season? I’m not saying I wouldn’t consider it. It would make us title favorites for the next 3 years. But we would suddenly be a much older team with no assets for a decade out.

[KillerLeft]

Totally get where you are coming from. Embiid is a great two-way player and dominant. But the equation wouldn’t be Embiid for Lively straight up. They would want Lively, Omax, Green and our 3 first round picks. Embiid also has a ton of mileage on him even though he’s only 29 and has he EVER been healthy for a post season? I’m not saying I wouldn’t consider it. It would make us title favorites for the next 3 years. But we would suddenly be a much older team with no assets for a decade out.

This. 

AND, a deal for Embiid would require a huge paradigm shift on how the team approaches things on either side of the court. That doesn't mean it's a move you don't do, necessarily, but I actually happen to think the "Screen and D" style big is the way to go on a Luka team, so I'm really, really content with Lively. 

Embiid is obviously one of the better players in the game, so it's not about Lively being better in a vacuum - he's not.

[mvossman]

This. 

AND, a deal for Embiid would require a huge paradigm shift on how the team approaches things on either side of the court. That doesn't mean it's a move you don't do, necessarily, but I actually happen to think the "Screen and D" style big is the way to go on a Luka team, so I'm really, really content with Lively. 

Embiid is obviously one of the better players in the game, so it's not about Lively being better in a vacuum - he's not.

Yep.  Its another case of cost vs fit.  When you have limited resources and the cost is going to be top dollar, fit is really important.

[DallasMaverick]

So many different opinions of the value of assets among fan bases. It’s also true among NBA GM’s and scouts, although I would suspect it’s a much narrower cone of opinion than the fan bases (for example, see the wild swings on Powell, THJ, and Hardy on this board over the past couple of months).

While every GM would like to “win” a trade, I.e. I’ll give you my shiny new nickel for your dull old quarter, I think sometimes it has far more to do with fit and value to the acquiring team. 

Minnesota took some serious ridicule for trading all those first round picks for Rudy G. But apparently, they thought that, in their particular situation, they were getting good value. And aren’t they?

So a good GM is probably on the hunt for deals that benefit both teams, rather than just himself. A win-win mindset. Maybe not like Mr. Ainge.

[F Gump]

Right now the Mavs are right at the 1st Apron in 2024-25, with the commitments they already have and a roster of 14. That includes Holmes.

The cap is projected at 142M, and the corresponding MLE is projected at 12.95M. Holmes will be making 12.877M. So if you erase Holmes, you can pay a player making the MLE (or almost all of it). If Kleber is healthy, Holmes seems very expendable this season to swap for an expiring-contract player. (And if Kleber isn't healthy, wouldn't be and his 11M salary be shopped too?)

Where the cap actually lands does impact those numbers.

All of that assumes there are no other changes to the roster. But it's more likely that multiple moves happen between now and then, which changes all the math.

One of the bigger unknowns is the progress of OMax. Will he show enough this season where they don't feel compelled to chase a big wing or PF type? That is going to make a significant difference in their roster building and how they allocate future payroll, one way or the other.

I just noticed I made a mistake on this post. I mixed up the currently projected numbers, and the statement that "the Mavs are right at the 1st Apron in 2024-25, with the commitments they already have and a roster of 14" should have said Tax Line rather than 1st Apron.

That means they have more room to work with, as the 1st Apron (with its hard cap features) will be about 7.35M higher than the Tax Line. Obviously, if they erased Holmes salary between now and then, they can spend the big MLE on someone.

It doesn't give them room for the big MLE as is, however.

[Winter]

About John Collins...

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2023/12/jazz...block.html

Apparently, he's not really catching on to the Utah system... and his defense is non-existent. I'm not even sure the Mavs would want a trade involving Collins, but he's clearly available with just about everyone else in Utah it seems according to this.

[ThisIStheYear]

I call Jones Jr, Grant, Exum, Lively, and hopefully Green as "do your job guys".  We didn't have guys like this last year.  With the exception of DFS.  You have two stars, so you just want guys who will fit next to our stars and do little things that impact winning.  So far, Dallas has gotten this.  Regardless who Dallas targets in a trade the next year or so, we need to make sure we have  the "do your job" guys.  It makes everything so much easier.

Lively is more.  He’s a star in the making. He’s really good.

[HoosierDaddyKid]

Totally get where you are coming from. Embiid is a great two-way player and dominant. But the equation wouldn’t be Embiid for Lively straight up. They would want Lively, Omax, Green and our 3 first round picks. Embiid also has a ton of mileage on him even though he’s only 29 and has he EVER been healthy for a post season? I’m not saying I wouldn’t consider it. It would make us title favorites for the next 3 years. But we would suddenly be a much older team with no assets for a decade out.

Fair enough. However, if Dallas wants to compete for a title, I put all my chips in the middle of the table for Embiid, despite the sketchy injury history. realistically, Philly would be damn fools to trade Embiid unless he forces one. They traded the cancer that is  Harden, and Maxey fits right in as Embiid's tag team partner. And the way they're playing like one of the league's best teams, it ain't happening.  Lively would surely go back to Philly in a trade, but what other assets would they consider since it wouldn't be a 1 for 1 deal?