Trade & FA 2023-24: Stein-Ingram Trade Inevitable| LAL Want Lebron Back On Any Terms

[KillerLeft]

I perfectly agree with the first paragpraph.

But, I just don't see how Omax would come anywhere close to OG in 2-3 months. 2-3 years, perhaps. 

As for assets, for me it is pretty simple. If I believe OG type player is a guy that lifts us to contender status, I don't care how much it costs in terms of assets and salary. There are only so many "OG types" around, and when one becomes available, you get him. Building a team is about putting right pieces together. If you are waiting for years because you want to "win" a trade, Kyrie will be old and Luka might become tired. Then you will have a whole different puzzle to solve. Big three of Luka, Kyrie and serious 2-way wing would be really dangerous with the pieces Mavs have today. More realistic time to get that would be summer imho, not TDL.

Personally, this same core with a good wing and a year older Lively could be serious. I was claiming whole summer, Mavs need a good center and 2-way wing. Lively surprised us all and actually looks pretty close to that good centre we need. This means 2-way wing, the number three guy, is what is missing. DJJ has been much better than expected, at least in some games, but he is imho not the answer. Even his best version.

I didn't mean that O-Max would be AS GOOD as OG at any point this year or next (though I wouldn't rule it out), just that I thought it very possible he'd be good ENOUGH (at some of those things OG could provide) to get into the rotation and contribute. As you say, there are only so many animals like that in the game, and Dallas has an up-and-coming version right there on their bench. 

Still, you make a compelling argument here, and having TWO of that type of player is way more enticing than having two traditional centers. OG and O-Max could actually play together some day, or with anyone else on the roster, and they could do all of that IN THE PLAYOFFS.

---

Now Drummond is a dude I've been eyeing for a while. We know the Mavs had interest over the summer. We know they wanted him with one of the exceptions. Drummond is right at the sweet spot of cost and expectation of playing time and skillset. 

I think he could probably be had for less than we imagine. And should the Mavs try and target someone else on the Bulls *cough* Caruso, Drummond could be thrown in pretty easily.

I have been anti-Drummond for as long as I can remember, but the above deal is something I would consider, and I agree, Drummond is right in the sweet spot of what's needed here. They don't even need an added center to play every night.

[SleepingHero]

NBACentral (@TheDunkCentral)
“I’m not sure [Minnesota] could get picks for Towns right now.”?

- Brian Windhorst on Karl-Anthony Towns’ trade value

[BigDirk41]

NBACentral (@TheDunkCentral)
“I’m not sure [Minnesota] could get picks for Towns right now.”?

- Brian Windhorst on Karl-Anthony Towns’ trade value

Future Mav

[Scott41theMavs]

Future Mav

Blech. 

Imagine that KAT's trade value went down precipitously, and the Mavs could hypothetically get him for THJ, Holmes, and OMax. The vast majority of Mavs fans (fortunately virtually none of them on this board) would cretinously say, "Dude, what a steal! We'd be crazy not to do that!!!!"

And then you're stuck with that cap-cluttering elephant turd of a contract, his corrosive soft attitude, and lack of defense at the positions at which it's needed the most. There would be no conceivable way more effective at completely destroying everything we're working toward with this current roster.

Short, of course, of trading the same package for Harden. But that ain't happening, so KAT is indeed what terrifies me the most moving forward.

[DallasMaverick]

I wonder what it would take to pry Nick Richards away from Charlotte?

[BigDirk41]

Blech. 

Imagine that KAT's trade value went down precipitously, and the Mavs could hypothetically get him for THJ, Holmes, and OMax. The vast majority of Mavs fans (fortunately virtually none of them on this board) would cretinously say, "Dude, what a steal! We'd be crazy not to do that!!!!"

And then you're stuck with that cap-cluttering elephant turd of a contract, his corrosive soft attitude, and lack of defense at the positions at which it's needed the most. There would be no conceivable way more effective at completely destroying everything we're working toward with this current roster.

Short, of course, of trading the same package for Harden. But that ain't happening, so KAT is indeed what terrifies me the most moving forward.

Yeah I don't want KAT, for the record. Just seems like a Cuban move to make.

[Jason Terry]

The team looks amazing

Siakam and Grant are the only guys I can come up with that make sense. I feel like we have the luxury to be opportunistic and wait on a good deal. If the prices are too high then wait until the summer

Expirings(THJ/Holmes) + young player (Hardy?) + draft compensation = good two way player

I think the ideal backup for Lively would be Robert Williams III who should be available for cheap this summer

As far as this years TDL and team success……. I’m leaning toward let it ride. Keep the magic. Our TDL pickups are Maxi and O Max

[Mike lorenzo]

RWilliams is made of glass, he can't stay on the court...I didn't want him here...but J.Collins has recovered from his hand injury and is hitting triples and averaging +-9 rebounds per game...it wouldn't be very expensive I guess. . then what happens with Vandervilt??

[Jason Terry]

Kelly Olynyk makes some sense with Holmes outgoing if he doesn’t prove useful

[Ghost of Podkolzin]

You don't need to be a center to be able to rebound, but you need to have SIZE and that's the main issue the Mavs have right now IMO.

If the Raptors end up as sellers at the trade deadline, OG would have to be the main target. One of the best defenders in the league, who has size and can shoot 40% from three is all someone could ask for.
Caruso is also nice, but he doesn't fix the size problem IMO.
This team is one defensive meanace away from being a true contender.

Defensive rebounding has a huge correlation to winning.  Top 4 teams last were MIL, LAL, BOS, MEM.  A defensive rebound has the same effect as a steal.  Offensive rebounding is usually poor shooting and lazy defense.

I think we're all of one accord that OG puts us next level.  I'm huge on Tari Eason, but the road to long NBA careers is littered with the bodies of those who didn't pan out.  OG is a sure thing.

---

I perfectly agree with the first paragpraph.

But, I just don't see how Omax would come anywhere close to OG in 2-3 months. 2-3 years, perhaps. 

As for assets, for me it is pretty simple. If I believe OG type player is a guy that lifts us to contender status, I don't care how much it costs in terms of assets and salary. There are only so many "OG types" around, and when one becomes available, you get him. Building a team is about putting right pieces together. If you are waiting for years because you want to "win" a trade, Kyrie will be old and Luka might become tired. Then you will have a whole different puzzle to solve. Big three of Luka, Kyrie and serious 2-way wing would be really dangerous with the pieces Mavs have today. More realistic time to get that would be summer imho, not TDL.

Personally, this same core with a good wing and a year older Lively could be serious. I was claiming whole summer, Mavs need a good center and 2-way wing. Lively surprised us all and actually looks pretty close to that good centre we need. This means 2-way wing, the number three guy, is what is missing. DJJ has been much better than expected, at least in some games, but he is imho not the answer. Even his best version.

This.  OMax has shown ability, but you don't develop shooting, handles, and passing in 2-3 months.  IMO he's a project.

[SleepingHero]

https://streamable.com/1r1fzl

Zion looks unhappy. Says "trying his best to buy in right now"

Also on another note:
@LegionHoops
Kawhi Leonard was reportedly seen “growing increasingly frustrated” today and “took a while to come back to the bench” following a timeout.

(via @FlyByKnite)

Kawhi Frustrated? Can the Clips blow it up this year??

[StrandedOnBeauboisHill]

The team looks amazing

Siakam and Grant are the only guys I can come up with that make sense. I feel like we have the luxury to be opportunistic and wait on a good deal. If the prices are too high then wait until the summer

Expirings(THJ/Holmes) + young player (Hardy?) + draft compensation = good two way player

I think the ideal backup for Lively would be Robert Williams III who should be available for cheap this summer

As far as this years TDL and team success……. I’m leaning toward let it ride. Keep the magic. Our TDL pickups are Maxi and O Max

Jerami Grant definitely seems like the best gettable name (I personally think the raptors players are certainly out of our reach unless we hoard assets and they're still somehow available next summer).  The only caveat being, does Grant improve our rebounding?  He certainly increases the talent level and gives us that big power forward that most seem to be craving but does he solve the issues we're currently having?  I would certainly pull the trigger at the right price, just kind of thinking out loud is all.

[KillerLeft]

Jerami Grant definitely seems like the best gettable name (I personally think the raptors players are certainly out of our reach unless we hoard assets and they're still somehow available next summer).  The only caveat being, does Grant improve our rebounding?  He certainly increases the talent level and gives us that big power forward that most seem to be craving but does he solve the issues we're currently having?  I would certainly pull the trigger at the right price, just kind of thinking out loud is all.

As former president of the Jerami Grant fan club, I don't see it anymore. He's too much of an offensive entity now. He is paid like and expects to be an on-ball player. I'm just not sure how interested he'd even be in doing the dirty work here, the way he did during his year in Denver, despite his unique physical qualifications for such a role.

Plus, I continue to wonder: is acquiring someone to block O-Max's development detrimental to the war effort here? He's already here - doesn't cost a thing, and might end up being better than any of these names we're discussing.

[omahen]

As former president of the Jerami Grant fan club, I don't see it anymore. He's too much of an offensive entity now. He is paid like and expects to be an on-ball player. I'm just not sure how interested he'd even be in doing the dirty work here, the way he did during his year in Denver, despite his unique physical qualifications for such a role.

Plus, I continue to wonder: is acquiring someone to block O-Max's development detrimental to the war effort here? He's already here - doesn't cost a thing, and might end up being better than any of these names we're discussing.

The guy that would be "blocking Omax development" would be DJJ, not the starter level wing we would bring. Omax is no where near ready to be a starter. You can't wait 2-3 seasons for Omax to perhaps develop to a starting level wing and ride with current team just because you don't want to block his development. Kyrie will be 34 by then... If Omax develops in starting level wing you have good problems to worry about. You can never have too many wings.

[SkenfromLMF]

https://streamable.com/1r1fzl

Zion looks unhappy. Says "trying his best to buy in right now"

Also on another note:
@LegionHoops
Kawhi Leonard was reportedly seen “growing increasingly frustrated” today and “took a while to come back to the bench” following a timeout.

(via @FlyByKnite)

Kawhi Frustrated? Can the Clips blow it up this year??

O they have... the question will be whether they can keep the shrapnel from dislodging before the Trade Deadline, OR how dead they will be on the inside if February passes and the chemistry has not improved.

[KillerLeft]

The guy that would be "blocking Omax development" would be DJJ, not the starter level wing we would bring. Omax is no where near ready to be a starter. You can't wait 2-3 seasons for Omax to perhaps develop to a starting level wing and ride with current team just because you don't want to block his development. Kyrie will be 34 by then... If Omax develops in starting level wing you have good problems to worry about. You can never have too many wings.

I understand this point from your perspective...just not sure I share your perspective. 

For example, I think at this point, the choice in the road is: should we (the Mavs) care about getting something done before Kyrie turns 34? My answer would be no, I think. 

Look how much better this all looked RIGHT AWAY, the second they stopped making (their version of) short-sighted moves. It's a little ironic, but them stepping back and playing for the future just a bit has actually made the team better RIGHT NOW. I would keep going that direction, not change course, but I admit it gets a little tougher to sell when it's possible to delude ourselves into the idea that this team could compete this year. I still don't believe that will be the case, but I'm sure that camp has more people joining as time goes by. 

I just think I'd want to get to the bottom of Lively, Green, Hardy and O-Max before I SPEND ASSETS and burden my cap for players similar to them. That's all. I'm in no hurry, and in fact, I think hurry is the surest way to mess this up.

[omahen]

Jerami Grant definitely seems like the best gettable name (I personally think the raptors players are certainly out of our reach unless we hoard assets and they're still somehow available next summer).  

Jerami Grant will likely be available and one FRP could be enough. I don't think he necessarily wants to be a featured player on offense and he has earned the top3 player status.

I think OG is out of our reach, as someone like Philly will probably go really hard after him and they have 3 picks to trade. Siakam, I am not so sure about. We might have enough (I am less sure about his fit here due to questionable shooting). One thing we could have in our favor would be THJ value. A team in desperate need of shooting like Orlando could be willing to pay a FRP (and expiring Isaac) for him. So Mavs could dangle two picks plus potential swaps. Should be enough for Siakam.

Personally, I think Dallas might turn after either George or Leonard. They are stars and Cuban loves those. Kyrie/Nico and the hope for a ring could make Dallas an attractive destination and they are certainly the kind of players that get where they want to. Summer might be more realistic time to go after them, unless Clippers season totally falls apart.

[KillerLeft]

Personally, I think Dallas might turn after either George or Leonard. They are stars and Cuban loves those. Kyrie/Nico and the hope for a ring could make Dallas an attractive destination and they are certainly the kind of players that get where they want to. Summer might be more realistic time to go after them, unless Clippers season totally falls apart.

Interesting. Would you want either? 

Man, there was a time I would have jumped at the thought of getting either one. Now? Not so sure.

[omahen]

I understand this point from your perspective...just not sure I share your perspective. 

For example, I think at this point, the choice in the road is: should we (the Mavs) care about getting something done before Kyrie turns 34? My answer would be no, I think. 

Look how much better this all looked RIGHT AWAY, the second they stopped making (their version of) short-sighted moves. It's a little ironic, but them stepping back and playing for the future just a bit has actually made the team better RIGHT NOW. I would keep going that direction, not change course, but I admit it gets a little tougher to sell when it's possible to delude ourselves into the idea that this team could compete this year. I still don't believe that will be the case, but I'm sure that camp has more people joining as time goes by. 

I just think I'd want to get to the bottom of Lively, Green, Hardy and O-Max before I SPEND ASSETS and burden my cap for players similar to them. That's all. I'm in no hurry, and in fact, I think hurry is the surest way to mess this up.

But then "you" should better trade Kyrie at some point in next 12 months or so. His value will start declining at one point and the contender "you" are building does not include him. Having a great 2-way wing is imho a definite need for this team. 2-way wings are also useful in any other combination of players. You are not touching the core of your player base, so I have a really tough time understanding why would you worry about such a move. Those young guys you mentioned can perfectly develop on a better team too, they can still get their minutes. Spending part of assets on a good player doesn't mean Mavs are blocked from doing other things. Even if it doesn't make them an immediate contender, they are certainly better positioned to become one.

Personally, I would be far more worried if the assets are spent on a center than on a 2-way wing.

[KillerLeft]

But then "you" should better trade Kyrie at some point in next 12 months or so. 

Personally, I would be far more worried if the assets are spent on a center than on a 2-way wing.

Agree with both of the above statements.

Although...I'm leaving room for the idea that Kyrie is more helpful here than I anticipate (he has been, so far) and that at some point soon they get SO good that I'm won over to the "one move away" crowd. But yeah, I'd be open to moving him next summer (possibly in that one move, even) for sure. I just need to see this a while longer before I decide which direction to go, if I'm in charge, that's all. 

I definitely agree with the second statement above, I'm just not 100% sure a move MUST be made for this thing to keep moving forward at a brisker-than-expected pace, and I'm low-key aware at the same time that the WRONG move can grind this whole movement to a halt. Look at the damage of last year done by some combination of Wood/McGee entering the locker room and Brunson leaving it. Tough to quantify, but the mix of people in your locker room...the opportunity/competition quotient...these things seem to matter quite a bit.