Trade & FA 2023-24: Paul George to Test Free Agency After No Contract Extension

[Jmaciscool]

Don't care who's making decisions over there, as long as whomever did it this past summer is the one who continues to do it.

And that whoever made the decisions last summer continues to not do it.

[MarkAguirreWrathofGod]

In fairness, we traded back into the 2nd rd to take Jalen Hardy at #37 last summer— a fine piece of work. Still hard to believe he dropped that far.

[dirkfansince1998]

In fairness, we traded back into the 2nd rd to take Jalen Hardy at #37 last summer— a fine piece of work. Still hard to believe he dropped that far.

Good pick. Bad asset management. Mavs giving up 24+28 2nd. Lakers getting a pick in the same range (#35) for cash + 24 2nd. Followed by a trade deadline where most big moves involved 3-5 2nd round picks.

Baby steps. Mavs apparently learned their lesson when it comes to first round picks. Next step are 2nd round picks, undrafted guys, summer/g-league rosters.

[mvossman]

Good pick. Bad asset management. Mavs giving up 24+28 2nd. Lakers getting a pick in the same range (#35) for cash + 24 2nd. Followed by a trade deadline where most big moves involved 3-5 2nd round picks.

Baby steps. Mavs apparently learned their lesson when it comes to first round picks. Next step are 2nd round picks, undrafted guys, summer/g-league rosters.

One of the many mistakes they probably don't make with Lindsey advising.  I hope Nico continues to listen and learn from him.

[SleepingHero]

It's always interesting to see what other fans of teams are cooking up trade wise and especially more interesting when they use the Mavs. This Wolves fan created this 4 team trade:

https://fanspo.com/nba/s/general/trades/...ice-for-og

And honestly I found it to be a pretty well thought out trade where every team is getting a little something. But for the Mavs they're getting the least amount of value and are giving up a 1st. So I reworked it to make it more Mavs favored but still keeping in the general framework. Raptors get their 3 firsts they want for OG. 2 Nets get a proper center that can still work with Ben Simmons. Mavs get their 2nd center AND shore up the wing with a guy they know and love. Wolves get out of the twin tower lineup, shore up their bench scoring, and get a great 2-way wing that slides next to McDaniels and Edwards. Thoughts?

  

[MarkAguirreWrathofGod]

I agree with you it’s a better thought out deal than most. Claxton is an UFA though. And DFS seems to be declining. Even if we could re-sign Claxton, it would cost close to 20m per year and then you almost have to start him over Lively. Which would suck for Lively and be super awkward.

[ItsGoTime]

I agree with you it’s a better thought out deal than most. Claxton is an UFA though. And DFS seems to be declining. Even if we could re-sign Claxton, it would cost close to 20m per year and then you almost have to start him over Lively. Which would suck for Lively and be super awkward.

I don’t understand why letting Lively develop more off the bench is such a bad thing? IF he proves to be a better player than Claxton, isn’t that an amazing problem to have?

[DanSchwartzgan]

Skin interviewed Nico on the sideline during the first quarter.  He (rather boldly) asked him about making a trade to round out the roster.  Nico said he’d like to see 20 games or so before deciding anything (December 16th is our 20th game right after all those 12/15 guys become eligible for trades).  When asked about what we need, Nico said rebounding and physicality.

Poeltl trade incoming (though he has to wait until 1/15)

[The Jom]

Skin interviewed Nico on the sideline during the first quarter.  He (rather boldly) asked him about making a trade to round out the roster.  Nico said he’d like to see 20 games or so before deciding anything (December 16th is our 20th game right after all those 12/15 guys become eligible for trades).  When asked about what we need, Nico said rebounding and physicality.

Poeltl trade incoming (though he has to wait until 1/15)

Whoa! What??? Why do you immediately jump to Poeltl???

[Branduil]

Team is clearly improved from last year (thank you Lively for showing us what a real center looks like again), but there's definitely a need for a reliable backup C, and also a starting point-of-attack wing better than DJJ.

[SleepingHero]

https://old.reddit.com/r/chicagobulls/co...scouts_to/

Windhorst saying scouts are all over the Bulls games because teams are expecting them to become sellers.

[SleepingHero]

This dude on this team would go crazy.

[DanSchwartzgan]

Whoa! What??? Why do you immediately jump to Poeltl???

We can fill in the blank with any physical rebounder we want I guess.  I happen to think Poeltl makes sense for several reasons.  One, he perfectly fits the criteria of rebounding and physicality.  His age puts him dead in his prime.  He's locked up for the same four years as Lively at a flat $19.5mm per year.  You get 48 minutes of center play for about 15% of the tax this year and less than that each year as Poeltl's number stays flat while the tax level goes up.  If we were thinking about Ayton and Capela, there is no reason to believe we wouldn't also consider Poeltl.

He's not a necessity on an underperforming Toronto team.  They can play Siakam, Boucher, Achiuwas and eventually Koloko at center.  They need to fix the logjam between Siakam, Poeltl, Barnes and Anunoby (positionally and skill-set wise).  Turning him for more than what they paid for him would look/feel like good front-office work.  Holmes plus the unprotected 2027 pick fits, but puts Dallas into the tax.  I'm wondering if it ends up instead being Holmes, Green and some protections on the 2027 pick backed up by the 2028 second if it doesn't convey.  Toronto could substitute Maxi for Holmes if they wish.  Green's outside shooting and connective passing would be a welcome addition in Toronto.  And, adding Green to the deal keeps Dallas out of the tax this season.

No, I don't want to trade Green.  But, this team is as good as I hoped and we would look completely different if we got 48 minutes of good defensive center play and Maxi/Powell doesn't provide that at a high enough level for the playoffs.  We also can't place our entire post-season bet on Maxi's health and Lively staying out of foul trouble the next two seasons.  I go back and forth on this a lot, but splitting the position with two high quality guys makes great sense to me.  Let Poeltl take the beating against starters for the next year or two and let Lively feast against backups.  By the time Lively is 21, Poeltl is only 30.  At some point there is a logical transition to Lively starting.  But it doesn't have to be now.

I really like the team we have left after such a move.  It is going to be really hard to develop Green, Hardy, OMax and Lively.  Green partially blocks Hardy for guard minutes and partially blocks OMax for defensive wing minutes.  If he's gone, you have one scorer and one defensive wing and one center you are trying to develop.  What you are left with is:

Center:  Poeltl/Lively/Powell

D Wing:  GWill/DJJ/Maxi/Exum/OMax

Scoring G:  Luka/Kyrie/THJ/Hardy/Curry

What you are essentially saying in such a deal is you trust DJJ relative to Josh more than you trust Powell/Maxi relative to Poeltl.  The 28 year old Poeltl is about as statistically consistent as they come.  You know pretty much exactly what you are getting per 36 and with his advanced stats.  His teams are always better when he's on the floor and if that happens with Lively getting all the other minutes, that will be quite a positive thing.  We take a slight ding to our 3 point shooting, but the D is better and D is where we have the most margin for improvement.

[StrandedOnBeauboisHill]

Hmmm, it’s interesting but I don’t know how I feel about giving up the 2027 for what would be a backup center making 20M an year over the next 4 seasons including this one. I like the player but I feel like there are cheaper alternatives that wouldn’t require that pick to fill in backup center minutes with better rebounding. I am however ready to throw Green in the trade machine to see what comes out, mostly because it feels like some of our other role playing wings are playing on the same level if not better.

I also think physicality and rebounding doesn’t have to come from the center position. I still think you could upgrade with a big wing who is capable of playing backup center minutes as well although those targets are obviously few and far between. Really just a straight up Maxi upgrade.

It’s wild how fluid the situation is becoming though as we see decent wing minutes from both DJJ and now Exum. I think they will be great for 82 games, but I think both of them though allow defenses to load the paint in the playoffs and send doubles at Kyrie and Luka because of their shooting which is why I still think the target should be a bigger wing (and why I’m still rooting for Green to consistently play at a level we’ve seen him capable of). One who can diminish both the role of Powell/Maxi AND DJJ/Exum come playoff time but it’s not like Aaron Gordons grow on trees. One thing I am sure of though, if this team is playing this well up until the trade deadline, Cuban is absolutely shopping the Green/27 combo.

[KillerLeft]

Hmmm, it’s interesting but I don’t know how I feel about giving up the 2027 for what would be a backup center making 20M an year over the next 4 seasons including this one. I like the player but I feel like there are cheaper alternatives that wouldn’t require that pick to fill in backup center minutes with better rebounding. I am however ready to throw Green in the trade machine to see what comes out, mostly because it feels like some of our other role playing wings are playing on the same level if not better.

I am with you. Poetl has his fans here, but I’ve never been one of them. I totally get that he helps a ton with rebounding, but…is he even a pick and roll guy? THAT’s why Lively has gotten this chance and been so effective. I’m not so sure the Mavs would even be interested in Poetl. 

I’m also seeing a big disconnect between groups of us (fans). I started to make this point in a reply to IGT yesterday, but got distracted before finishing. There seems to be a group who thinks “48 minutes of center play” is the missing piece here. There are lots of different ways to look at that statement, but I’m not sure 48 minutes of Lively/Poetl (that you HAD to go with every night, for financial reasons) is what I’d want in the Mavs’ shoes. 

I could be totally wrong on this - just my feeling, but I think Kleber is the PERFECT complement to Lively as a backup, if only he’d play like the Kleber from two years ago. I haven’t given up on that idea…but even if the Mavs have, it kind of seems to me like they’d need to replace Kleber with a new, better Kleber. Physical and defensive, yes (Kleber used to be both of those things). Rebounding…Kleber has never been great there, so it would be easy to improve on him in that area. 

Point is, if they add a center, shouldn’t it be a guy who offers a way to play 5-out, giving them that option again? And if not, shouldn’t it be at least another guy who can play pick and roll, like Lively and Powell?

[Mavs2021]

Agreed tough to say what the Mave intentions are with regards to PF/C.

Very available players I´d say are

Vucevic
Drummond
Wiseman
Theis
Hayes 
Pokusevski
Isaac
Bamba 
Len
Achiuwa
Gafford
Muscala

[surfpuckmd]

It's too early in the season to give up assets in a trade.  We need to give it a couple more months to know exactly what we have.  Kleber deserves a couple of months to see if he can get back to who he was in the 2022 playoffs.  If he can, then our roster looks fairly complete.  If he can't then we can find a competent backup big who's much less expensive than Poeltl.  

I also don't understand why everyone is so down on Josh Green thus far.  I think he's played like he did last season.  Low-usage but efficient on offense.  Makes the occasional great pass and the occasional dumb turnover.  Continues to work hard on defense.  It's great that DJJ and Exum have exceeded expectations.  There will be injuries and rest days and so there will be some minutes for everyone.  KIdd still trusts him enough to play him 25 mpg this season.  Kidd has been very creative with lineups thus far this season depending on the opponent.  Grant Williams has been great this season but only played 16 minutes last night.

Green still has a place here.

[KillerLeft]

It's too early in the season to give up assets in a trade.  We need to give it a couple more months to know exactly what we have.  Kleber deserves a couple of months to see if he can get back to who he was in the 2022 playoffs.  If he can, then our roster looks fairly complete.  If he can't then we can find a competent backup big who's much less expensive than Poeltl. 

Man, this nails it, imo. 

Armed with the knowledge that starting the rookie has resulted in a better team than expected, the LAST thing I’d want to do is upset the apple cart by bringing in someone who’d expect to start over him. There is a synergy to these things, up to and including personality, even. What the Mavs are doing right now is working. Their goal (after a couple of months, I agree) should be to supplement, not to replace. 

The move from here is to gradually expect MORE from Lively. Better play, longer minutes…all of it.

[ThisIStheYear]

The big question for me is did the Mavs end up spending low enough this season to keep their exceptions so they can resign DJJ? He’s emerged and is at least as good as DFS. He’s a must keep now.

[ItsGoTime]

I am with you. Poetl has his fans here, but I’ve never been one of them. I totally get that he helps a ton with rebounding, but…is he even a pick and roll guy? THAT’s why Lively has gotten this chance and been so effective. I’m not so sure the Mavs would even be interested in Poetl. 

I’m also seeing a big disconnect between groups of us (fans). I started to make this point in a reply to IGT yesterday, but got distracted before finishing. There seem to be a group who thinks “48 minutes of center play” is the missing piece here. There are lots of different ways to look at that statement, but I’m not sure 48 minutes of Lively/Poetl (that you HAD to go with every night, for financial reasons) is what I’d want in the Mavs’ shoes. 

I could be totally wrong on this - just my feeling, but I think Kleber is the PERFECT complement to Lively as a backup, if only he’d play like the Kleber from two years ago. I haven’t given up on that idea…but even if the Mavs have, it kind of seems to me like they’d need to replace Kleber with a new, better Kleber. Physical and defensive, yes (Kleber used to be both of those things). Rebounding…Kleber has never been great there, so it would be easy to improve on him in that area. 

Point is, if they add a center, shouldn’t it be a guy who offers a way to play 5-out, giving them that option again? And if not, shouldn’t it be at least another guy who can play pick and roll, like Lively and Powell?

Ya, when I say 48 mins of great C play, I don’t literally mean a full 48 minutes every game for all games. I think we have a good smallball C option in GWill who can keep the 5 out dream alive. I’ve been also saying it lately, Isaiah Stewart has come on strong to begin this season shooting the 3, HE, I think, would be a great Maxi upgrade if after his % normalizes he can stay up there at or above league average. Eventually I think Lively will get to the point where he gets the green light to shoot 3’s as well as it seems that’s a part of his development.

I just really think that our defensive path forward with both Luka and Kyrie on the team is to choose rim protection and rebounding over perimeter defense. Not saying to give up on perimeter defense, just that when 2 of your 3-4 perimeter guys on the court are Luka and Kyrie, you can’t possibly think that having 1 guy out there is going to make that much of a difference.

We all see clearly how well this team works with Lively out there, I’d just like that to be the case for longer than Lively’s minutes (he’s averaging 24.3 mpg so there is a lot of time without him). 

I put out a list of guys I’d like to see as varying degrees of upgrade on Discord a couple days ago. At that time I hadn’t thought about Poeltl. I’m in between your thoughts and Dan’s on him. He is certainly the type of solid upgrade we could use for much of his proven game, but I don’t know enough about him to know if he is good for our offense. I do suppose if he is a hard worker, Luka and Kyrie can make the most out of effort. 

That list was (in no order):
Gafford
Hartenstein 
Allen
Capela
Stewart
Zubac

There are others I’m sure that I don’t have on that list too (especially some of these young up and comers), Poeltl probably should be there IMO.