Trade & FA 2023-24: Stein-Ingram Trade Inevitable| LAL Want Lebron Back On Any Terms

[StrandedOnBeauboisHill]

Yes. I don't think Grant and Siakam really fit together well next to Luka and Kyrie. But, Siakam is an upgrade over GW, I think. 

There is another target that could be more getable for our asset chest - Jerami Grant. Very likely he will be traded. He got a big contract, that will lower his market value. But that contract is still not such an obstacle to build around, still manageable. THJ+Holmes is approximately similar money, but Grant is a huge talent upgrade. Similar issue as with Siakam though - he overlaps a lot with GW. 

I just can't think of a realistic point of attack defender we could bring in to start. Someone that would be really decisively better than Green. Smart, White or Jrue would be ideal, but none of them will be available. Caruso is already more of a role player. I would like to have him, but I think Mavs need a bit bigger swing to really become a contender.

Love the idea of Jerami Grant here.  I actually think his contract may increase his value honestly.  30M is not going to look like very much in the NBA in coming years, it will basically be high level starter money which is absolutely is.  Really just depends how you think his game will hold up at the end of it (he'll turn 34 at the very end of that deal).

I don't understand the concern about overlap between wings like G Will and Grant.  I certainly welcome multiple wings on the floor who can defend and shoot and create a little bit so I get confused as to why that's an issue.  I agree with your sentiment that one wing should probably be more of a weakside offball defender skillset and the other a POA defender but while Williams, Siakim and Grant all fall more into a typical weakside defender, it doesn't mean they can't handle POA.  Hell, it feels like the Mavs are LOOKING for overlapping skillsets by choosing DJJ over Green imo because I certainly feel there's way more overlap between Williams and DJJ than Green and Williams so they don't seem to think it's an issue from a front office point of view.

Last thing I would say is that OG is definitely a decisively better POA defender than Green, it feels like OG's bread and butter when I watch him, so it's interesting you feel otherwise (unless you were talking about a realistic option outside of the raptors we were talking about).

[The Jom]

Is Lauri Markkanen gettable? I’d rank him ahead of the Toronto guys. If Utah fears him walking, is there a trade to make? I know Ainge demands a king’s ransom. But the dude only has 2 years left to UFA status.

[ItsGoTime]

Is Lauri Markkanen gettable? I’d rank him ahead of the Toronto guys. If Utah fears him walking, is there a trade to make? I know Ainge demands a king’s ransom. But the dude only has 2 years left to UFA status.

I made a trade with the caveat that Lauri tells Ainge he will not sign in Utah when his contract is up. His value will be a ton higher this year rather than next too.

[KillerLeft]

Killer, isn’t it way, way too early to expend assets trying to fill the role you drafted Omax for? He’s not a typical late first rounder. They took on 24 mil just for the right to pay him another 3 per year. That’s a hefty investment.

Yeah, maybe. I even mentioned that POV. Would be on my mind in any serious consideration of OG. 

The question is: would accelerating the timetable result in a competitive team way sooner? Isn't OG basically a version of the player we're hoping O-Max can be? If the team is better than expected, and is knocking off maybe 50% of their Denver-like opponents, I can see the temptation to accelerate the timeline being real. I don't expect that to happen, but what if it does? Heck, maybe even including O-Max helps get the deal done. I'm just asking questions today.

[DanSchwartzgan]

Love the idea of Jerami Grant here.

I think he’s a great fit here.  Unfortunately, Hardy won’t be valued there with what they have already.

One thing to bear in mind about OG is he’s a CAA guy and won’t extend at 140% of his current deal.  So, you give up assets and then CAA moves him somewhere else.  I like the player, but I’d make one of those ‘shave my head’ internet trades that he won’t be acquired by Dallas before the TDL.

[KillerLeft]

I think he’s a great fit here.  Unfortunately, Hardy won’t be valued there with what they have already.

One thing to bear in mind about OG is he’s a CAA guy and won’t extend at 140% of his current deal.  So, you give up assets and then CAA moves him somewhere else.  I like the player, but I’d make one of those ‘shave my head’ internet trades that he won’t be acquired by Dallas before the TDL.

Ok, so if OG isn't an option and Jerami Grant (have wanted him for years, but I kind of feel like he has become a little too big time to play the ideal role, like he did in Denver) isn't an option, are we just back to waiting for O-Max? 

I can see that being the best option anyway, possibly, but if that's the case, I hope he sees the floor juuuuuust a little bit fairly soon.

[dirkfansince1998]

Before I think of any bigger trade I want to see Luka/Kyrie play next to each other for at least half a season.

[loki]

Yeah, maybe. I even mentioned that POV. Would be on my mind in any serious consideration of OG. 

The question is: would accelerating the timetable result in a competitive team way sooner? Isn't OG basically a version of the player we're hoping O-Max can be? If the team is better than expected, and is knocking off maybe 50% of their Denver-like opponents, I can see the temptation to accelerate the timeline being real. I don't expect that to happen, but what if it does? Heck, maybe even including O-Max helps get the deal done. I'm just asking questions today.

I think the timetable depends on Lively. If they feel he's ready to make the leap by sometime next season, they should absolutely pull the trigger on the best wing defender in the league (OG). If not, those trade assets might need to be spent elsewhere.

[StrandedOnBeauboisHill]

A loooooooooooonnnnnnng shot candidate based on some rumors about the team and player being far off on contract negotiations would be Patrick Williams but I can't imagine the bulls not being willing to match whatever he gets next offseason. Some rumors have hinted at that maybe not being the case but I have a hard time believing them.

[KillerLeft]

Before I think of any bigger trade I want to see Luka/Kyrie play next to each other for at least half a season.

Yeah, for sure. Good call.

[Ghost of Podkolzin]

I think he’s a great fit here.  Unfortunately, Hardy won’t be valued there with what they have already.

One thing to bear in mind about OG is he’s a CAA guy and won’t extend at 140% of his current deal.  So, you give up assets and then CAA moves him somewhere else.  I like the player, but I’d make one of those ‘shave my head’ internet trades that he won’t be acquired by Dallas before the TDL.

Grant is a below average rebounder and an average defender.  IMO, not a great fit here.

[ItsGoTime]

Grant is a below average rebounder and an average defender.  IMO, not a great fit here.

Defense (especially team defense) is a lot about yelling things out. Luka says GWill is leading the team talk on defense. That is enough for me to say his fit is really good on this team. I will say, Luka’s other quote about him being able to defend 1-5 seems off, 3-5, sure, 1 & 2 though? Maybe if those 2 are Luka and THJ in practice.

[StrandedOnBeauboisHill]

Defense (especially team defense) is a lot about yelling things out. Luka says GWill is leading the team talk on defense. That is enough for me to say his fit is really good on this team. I will say, Luka’s other quote about him being able to defend 1-5 seems off, 3-5, sure, 1 & 2 though? Maybe if those 2 are Luka and THJ in practice.

After we signed G Williams, there was a hoop collective trivia question about the 6 or 7 (can't remember the exact number but it was low) players in the NBA who guarded all 5 possessions at least X amount of times (can't remember the qualifier either) last season and Grant was one of them.  I remember being very surprised that DFS was NOT one of those few players on the list honestly but it was basically guys like Draymond, Bam, Giannis and then...Grant Williams.

EDIT: just looked it up and it was 11 players who guarded all three player groups (guards, forwards, centers) for at least 750 possessions per second spectrum.

[HAguiar95]

Is it too soon to give up on Hardy or O-Max? The way we've played, I think another plus defender or a backup ball handler would be fantastic here. So far:

Luka/X
Irving/Hardaway
Green/Y
Williams/Z
Lively/Powell

We don't have the ammo IMO to land a young starter (like Anunoby), so I'd settle for quality backups that can shoot 3's.

Possible X = Jones (WAS), Morris (DET), Melton (PHI).
Possible Y = O'Neale (BKN), Martin (CHA).
Possible Z = Covington (PHI), Batum (PHI), Williams (OKC).

With Hardy or O-Max + filler (Holmes/Kleber).

[ItsGoTime]

After we signed G Williams, there was a hoop collective trivia question about the 6 or 7 (can't remember the exact number but it was low) players in the NBA who guarded all 5 possessions at least X amount of times (can't remember the qualifier either) last season and Grant was one of them.  I remember being very surprised that DFS was NOT one of those few players on the list honestly but it was basically guys like Draymond, Bam, Giannis and then...Grant Williams.

EDIT: just looked it up and it was 11 players who guarded all three player groups (guards, forwards, centers) for at least 750 possessions per second spectrum.

Hmmm, sounds to me like BOS, being a switch heavy team, has the opposing guards wanting to go at GWill as opposed to DWhite and company. I could be wrong, but I haven’t seen anything that would suggest he can guard quick players. I think he’s really good guarding bigger/slower ones though.

Edit: The list also doesn’t sound like it ranked the quality in which the players guarded those positions.

[DallasMaverick]

Is it too soon to give up on Hardy or O-Max? The way we've played, I think another plus defender or a backup ball handler would be fantastic here. So far:

Luka/X
Irving/Hardaway
Green/Y
Williams/Z
Lively/Powell

We don't have the ammo IMO to land a young starter (like Anunoby), so I'd settle for quality backups that can shoot 3's.

Possible X = Jones (WAS), Morris (DET), Melton (PHI).
Possible Y = O'Neale (BKN), Martin (CHA).
Possible Z = Covington (PHI), Batum (PHI), Williams (OKC).

With Hardy or O-Max + filler (Holmes/Kleber).

Seems kinda early to bail on Hardy or O-Max.

Their current value around the league is probably pretty low, also.

Buy low, sell high?

[StrandedOnBeauboisHill]

Hmmm, sounds to me like BOS, being a switch heavy team, has the opposing guards wanting to go at GWill as opposed to DWhite and company. I could be wrong, but I haven’t seen anything that would suggest he can guard quick players. I think he’s really good guarding bigger/slower ones though.

Edit: The list also doesn’t sound like it ranked the quality in which the players guarded those positions.

Certainly better at guarding up I agree but would also say seeing that we're trying to be a switch heavy team that we saw him as someone who can hold his own against smaller guards if he happens to end up on an island against them.  I've always viewed the idea of a player being able to "guard 1-5" meaning that you aren't completely screwed if they get cross matched and you can scheme a defense where they simply switch on everything, not that they are high level at guarding all positions necessarily.  I think the criteria being as high volume as it is speaks to these 11 players being identified by coaches as players who are not going to burn you defensively no matter how they get matched up and building a scheme that allows them to roam instead of protecting them from specific matchups on the floor.  To your point though it will be interesting to see if those numbers change for Grant Williams in a different system.

Also still blown away that DFS didn't qualify after digging that stat back up.

[mvossman]

Is Lauri Markkanen gettable? I’d rank him ahead of the Toronto guys. If Utah fears him walking, is there a trade to make? I know Ainge demands a king’s ransom. But the dude only has 2 years left to UFA status.

He would be massively expensive and is an offense only player.  I don't think it would be worth the cost to double down on offense.  Our issues have always been on the other side of the ball.

[mvossman]

Yes. I don't think Grant and Siakam really fit together well next to Luka and Kyrie. But, Siakam is an upgrade over GW, I think. 

There is another target that could be more getable for our asset chest - Jerami Grant. Very likely he will be traded. He got a big contract, that will lower his market value. But that contract is still not such an obstacle to build around, still manageable. THJ+Holmes is approximately similar money, but Grant is a huge talent upgrade. Similar issue as with Siakam though - he overlaps a lot with GW. 

I just can't think of a realistic point of attack defender we could bring in to start. Someone that would be really decisively better than Green. Smart, White or Jrue would be ideal, but none of them will be available. Caruso is already more of a role player. I would like to have him, but I think Mavs need a bit bigger swing to really become a contender.

I would have no problem starting Caruso, but another guy that has been mentioned is Quickley.  I'm skeptical he is available, but he would be a perfect fit.

[Ghost of Podkolzin]

Is it too soon to give up on Hardy or O-Max? The way we've played, I think another plus defender or a backup ball handler would be fantastic here. So far:

Luka/X
Irving/Hardaway
Green/Y
Williams/Z
Lively/Powell

We don't have the ammo IMO to land a young starter (like Anunoby), so I'd settle for quality backups that can shoot 3's.

Possible X = Jones (WAS), Morris (DET), Melton (PHI).
Possible Y = O'Neale (BKN), Martin (CHA).
Possible Z = Covington (PHI), Batum (PHI), Williams (OKC).

With Hardy or O-Max + filler (Holmes/Kleber).

Eek.  Outside of Melton and Williams, those are some spares you can get at Vet Min.  Williams couldn't play with Lively, so that's a no.