Trade & FA 2023-24: Stein-Ingram Trade Inevitable| LAL Want Lebron Back On Any Terms

[RGP1981]

Interesting tidbits here, including some insight as to why Brown probably wasn’t the fit in Dallas some thought he would’ve been:

https://youtu.be/VpjddAGgwGE

I think Bruce Brown would have been a great fit.

PG: 6'4", 200lbs Bruce Brown
SG: 6'6", 220lbs Bruce Brown
SF: Luka
PF: 6'10", 240lbs Bruce Brown
Ce: 7'0", 260lbs Bruce Brown

How many rings does this team win?

[RGP1981]

Sources are telling me the Atlanta Hawks have a trade package that the Raptors are willing to accept which would land Pascal Siakam with the Hawks.

The reason it’s not done already is because the Hawks are worried that Siakam would not resign with them.

Ongoing situation to keep an eye on

I think the Siakam deal that makes the most sense is...

Siakam to the 76ers, where he can play with his fellow Cameroonian, Embiid.
 - Maxey, Melton, Tobias, Siakam, Embiid

Honeybuns Harden to the Raptors, who need a primary play-maker so bad.
 - Harden, GTJ/Dick, Anunoby, Barnes, Poeltl

[SleepingHero]

I think the Siakam deal that makes the most sense is...

Siakam to the 76ers, where he can play with his fellow Cameroonian, Embiid.
 - Maxey, Melton, Tobias, Siakam, Embiid

Honeybuns Harden to the Raptors, who need a primary play-maker so bad.
 - Harden, GTJ/Dick, Anunoby, Barnes, Poeltl

I don't see it, given that Harden seems to only want to go to the Clippers. If the Raptors give him a max extension I could see him staying, but would they? Doubt it. He'd then leave for free at the end of the season and the Raptors are worse off. 

Harden doesn't even make them a contender. 

Maybe there is a 3-way there with the Clips. But in that case, why would the Raptors want to facilitate a division rival getting their star player?

[KillerLeft]

I don’t think there’s a Harden/Siakim fit either. It’s logistically inconvenient for these guys to play in TOR, not in a way that would bother any of US when weighed against the chance to earn millions playing a game, but in a way that many NBA players dislike. I can’t see Harden agreeing to play there, and think it’s a total non-starter.

I DO think Philly plays a role here, however. Their looming cap space and Siakim’s impending free agency, along with Morey’s not too subtle description of what they’re looking for to pair with Embiid SHOULD be the final straw that convinces TOR to trade him NOW. We know they don’t want to supermax him, or these rumors wouldn’t be out there, they’d just give it to him already. They might/might not want to give him the regular max, but at that point they still might lose him for nothing.

I hope he agrees to re-sign in ATL, personally, so the Mavs can get Capela.

[RGP1981]

I DO think Philly plays a role here, however. Their looming cap space and Siakim’s impending free agency, along with Morey’s not too subtle description of what they’re looking for to pair with Embiid SHOULD be the final straw that convinces TOR to trade him NOW. We know they don’t want to supermax him, or these rumors wouldn’t be out there, they’d just give it to him already. They might/might not want to give him the regular max, but at that point they still might lose him for nothing.

I don't see it, given that Harden seems to only want to go to the Clippers. If the Raptors give him a max extension I could see him staying, but would they? Doubt it. He'd then leave for free at the end of the season and the Raptors are worse off. 

Harden doesn't even make them a contender. 

Maybe there is a 3-way there with the Clips. But in that case, why would the Raptors want to facilitate a division rival getting their star player?

I guess the Raptors could try asking for Maxey instead of Harden, since Maxey is a better fit with their time-line.

Then the 76ers could send Harden and Tucker to the Clippers for Terance Mann, Norm Powell and RoCo? The 76ers will end up with a lot of PFs and Cs... but a tough and defensive team.

- Melton/PatBev, Powell/Korkmaz, Tobias/Mann, Siakam/Petrusev/RoCo, Embiid/Reed/Bamba/Harrell

Even though this team is lacking a primary play-maker, I think they could split the play-making duties among a lot of players and would probably be the favs to come out of the East.

[KillerLeft]

I guess the Raptors could try asking for Maxey instead of Harden, since Maxey is a better fit with their time-line.

I'm sure they asked, and that would explain why Windhorst has been on his "Philly won't trade Maxey for prime MJ" PR water-carrying tour this summer. 

I don't know what will happen with Siakim, but I'm 99% sure he doesn't get traded to Philly. I agree that Morey probably has his name written in bright red somewhere in his office.

[F Gump]

I don't see it, given that Harden seems to only want to go to the Clippers. If the Raptors give him a max extension I could see him staying, but would they? Doubt it. He'd then leave for free at the end of the season and the Raptors are worse off. 

Harden doesn't even make them a contender. 

Maybe there is a 3-way there with the Clips. But in that case, why would the Raptors want to facilitate a division rival getting their star player?

The bulk of the issue is about about player commitment, which is why you are willing to trade them in the first place (because he might walk in a year or less), and also why the other team can be hesitant to trade for him at a high price (because he might walk in a year or less).

To the Mavs' credit, they had the cojones to trade for both KP and Kyrie while staring down the barrel of the gun called free agency, without any certainty.

It would be helpful if the rules offered better avenues to extend-and-trade, but alas they do not. If a player wants a healthy raise in that looming free agency, with a reasonable certainty of getting one, they can only do that in an extend-and-stay (for at least 6 months) but no way to replicate that in the extend-and-trade option. 

So if TOR wants to do a trade yielding full market value, it probably requires 1 of 2 possibilities to happen before Aug 8:
(1) TOR steps up to the plate with their own player and does an extension (which increases their own commitment) before trading that player later at the trade deadline (there's a 6 month waiting period if the extension adds more than 2 years and more than 5% raises), or
(2) TOR allows the player to speak with and negotiate a "to be done later" extension "understanding" with the trade partner (not enforceable, but agreed), and then trades the player by Aug 8 so the bigger extension can be done by the trade deadline (6 months later) and avoid free agency.

It must be noted that Harden is not eligible for an extension of any kind. And Siakam can only get the 35% contract if he both qualifies, and waits until the summer, and once he signs he would be no-trade for any reason for a year.

[SleepingHero]

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/16824...50816?s=46&t=4w35gotNXtBJnqxbaL7e9w

Adrian Wojnarowski (@wojespn)
Restricted free agent G Ayo Dosunmu has agreed on a three-year, $21 million deal to stay with the Chicago Bulls, agent Mike Lindeman of @excelbasketball tells ESPN.

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The bulk of the issue is about about player commitment, which is why you are willing to trade them in the first place (because he might walk in a year or less), and also why the other team can be hesitant to trade for him at a high price (because he might walk in a year or less).

To the Mavs' credit, they had the cojones to trade for both KP and Kyrie while staring down the barrel of the gun called free agency, without any certainty.

It would be helpful if the rules offered better avenues to extend-and-trade, but alas they do not. If a player wants a healthy raise in that looming free agency, with a reasonable certainty of getting one, they can only do that in an extend-and-stay (for at least 6 months) but no way to replicate that in the extend-and-trade option. 

So if TOR wants to do a trade yielding full market value, it probably requires 1 of 2 possibilities to happen before Aug 8:
(1) TOR steps up to the plate with their own player and does an extension (which increases their own commitment) before trading that player later at the trade deadline (there's a 6 month waiting period if the extension adds more than 2 years and more than 5% raises), or
(2) TOR allows the player to speak with and negotiate a "to be done later" extension "understanding" with the trade partner (not enforceable, but agreed), and then trades the player by Aug 8 so the bigger extension can be done by the trade deadline (6 months later) and avoid free agency.

It must be noted that Harden is not eligible for an extension of any kind. And Siakam can only get the 35% contract if he both qualifies, and waits until the summer, and once he signs he would be no-trade for any reason for a year.

I didn't know Harden wasn't eligible for an extension. That certainly changes leverage here. Thanks for the breakdown.

[Mavs2021]

To the Mavs' credit, they had the cojones to trade for both KP and Kyrie while staring down the barrel of the gun called free agency, without any certainty.

Took real cojones to be willing to give them far more money than anybody else. That´s like being impressed that they managed to sign Burke and McGee to three year contracts.  
Plus Porzingis was a damn RFA that nobody could or would have signed away to that contract. And Irving´s FA value was probably around 25-30M max, if that  much.

[Scott41theMavs]

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/16823...97827?s=20

Adrian Wojnarowski (@wojespn)
Free agent G Wesley Matthews has agreed on a one-year deal with the Atlanta Hawks, sources tell ESPN. Matthews, 36, joins the Hawks after two seasons with the Milwaukee Bucks.

I didn't know that the Hawks were tanking. No wonder Siakam doesn't want to commit to staying there.

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Took real cojones to be willing to give them far more money than anybody else. That´s like being impressed that they managed to sign Burke and McGee to three year contracts.  
Plus Porzingis was a damn RFA that nobody could or would have signed away to that contract. And Irving´s FA value was probably around 25-30M max, if that  much.

We all know that the contract they signed Kyrie to was the "don't create a major ongoing locker room problem" price.

[dirkfansince1998]

https://twitter.com/BleacherReport/statu...7777306627

Kemba Walker signs with AS Monaco.

Couldn´t find a roster spot last season. This is the next logical step if he wants to play for a few more years.

[SleepingHero]

https://twitter.com/NateRuns5/status/168...91009?s=20
@NateRuns5

Coming out of Summer League, Jake says the belief on the ground was Toronto has wasted teams time over the last few transaction windows & some teams are tired of working with this FO. Could this explain why an All-NBA player is available & only the Hawks are seriously pursing?

[F Gump]

That's quite possible.

then again, other teams may also be interested in Siakam but it's a hard time to do a $38M salary match when a large subset of your roster is ineligible because they were just acquired via trade or signing.

And perhaps what we think we know is mostly a matter of the story TOR wants to have told, for one purpose or another.

Would love to add Siakam here, that's for sure. but way more desirable is getting the early-years version, where you have an impact player but you aren't paying 40-50M a year for him. (That's only possible if you have your picks and then hit on them. For reference, PS was picked at 27.)

[Mavs2021]

https://twitter.com/BleacherReport/statu...7777306627

Kemba Walker signs with AS Monaco.

Couldn´t find a roster spot last season. This is the next logical step if he wants to play for a few more years.

There are worse places to live than Monte Carlo. With no personal income tax, he probably gets paid close to the NBA minimum to play twice a week.

[DallasMaverick]

I didn't know that the Hawks were tanking. No wonder Siakam doesn't want to commit to staying there.

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We all know that the contract they signed Kyrie to was the "don't create a major ongoing locker room problem" price.

We all know???

[Scott41theMavs]

We all know???

LOLOLOLOLOL that you of all people would be the one posting that. The whole world (as opposed to everyone on this board, lest it offend you) knows that there was zero conceivable possibility of Kyrie getting that deal elsewhere, so the alternative to what I posted was, "The Dallas Mavericks were once again monumental dumbasses and bid against themselves." I suspect that's not your position, so I'm pretty bemused that you would take issue with what I said.

[Scott41theMavs]

In unrelated news, "we all know (lol)" that there are trade possibilities out there, guys like DJJ and others whom the Mavs could still add to their roster with the funds they still have available, the Fate of McGee Shitshow, and the remaining holes on the roster (a stopgap starting center if they don't have faith in Holmes, a third big wing to spell GW and OMax, and certainly a reliable point guard for whenever Luka or Kyrie miss games), but we've arrived at the slow part of the offseason. A watched Woj feed never emits bombs, so we all just have to step back and wait.

[RGP1981]

I'm sure they asked, and that would explain why Windhorst has been on his "Philly won't trade Maxey for prime MJ" PR water-carrying tour this summer. 

I don't know what will happen with Siakim, but I'm 99% sure he doesn't get traded to Philly. I agree that Morey probably has his name written in bright red somewhere in his office.

Haha, that is probably true. They probably hoped to swap Tobias for Siakam.

[Dundalis]

I don’t think there’s a Harden/Siakim fit either. It’s logistically inconvenient for these guys to play in TOR, not in a way that would bother any of US when weighed against the chance to earn millions playing a game, but in a way that many NBA players dislike. I can’t see Harden agreeing to play there, and think it’s a total non-starter.

I DO think Philly plays a role here, however. Their looming cap space and Siakim’s impending free agency, along with Morey’s not too subtle description of what they’re looking for to pair with Embiid SHOULD be the final straw that convinces TOR to trade him NOW. We know they don’t want to supermax him, or these rumors wouldn’t be out there, they’d just give it to him already. They might/might not want to give him the regular max, but at that point they still might lose him for nothing.

I hope he agrees to re-sign in ATL, personally, so the Mavs can get Capela.

So do I but why in the world would Siakam want to re-sign with a team like the Hawks I have no idea. No way I would if I was him when I could enter FA and potentially go to a better team.

[F Gump]

So do I but why in the world would Siakam want to re-sign with a team like the Hawks I have no idea. No way I would if I was him when I could enter FA and potentially go to a better team.

... when I could 
1 enter FA and 
2 potentially go to a better team

Those 2 points tend to be mutually exclusive. 

If Siakam gets traded to ATL (or anywhere else), he'd better learn to love them, because that's where his best payday is almost certainly coming from. And top free agents work hard because they want top money.

The team that has Siakam when his contract expires can go over the cap to pay him what it takes. Any other team cannot. In fact, top teams with top talent tend to be dancing with the tax line and the apron, and don't have any cap room at all, when they would need to be 45-50M or so under the cap (not under tax or apron, but under the cap) to be able to offer him the contract he wants.

Harden seemed to have that same conundrum this summer. He wanted to be elsewhere, but the only team possible was a sucky one. So he decided not to be a FA after all, and instead signed his option to play for Philly and then started whining on how he hates it there. FA was not the avenue for him to get the money he wants and also get to the team he wants. If Morey sticks to his guns, Harden will again have the very same choices next summer, the ones he hates now, because good teams aren't likely to have big cap room to sign a top FA. IMO