A Few Thoughts on Mavs 99, Clippers 114

[ItsGoTime]

I feel like you haven't met RC's Det or Indiana teams.

After re-reading that, that is an overly harsh way of putting it, sorry, meant no disrespect.

although the game has changed a lot since then

In all honesty, those two teams would fair VERY well in today's NBA. Defense and muscle ball translates very well through the ages, the defensive schemes change, but the players willing to put in the work don't. Also, Ben Wallace and Dale Davis/Scot Pollard/Jeff Foster were the starting C's on each team. Were those teams ahead of their time?

[mavsluvr]

Regarding defense of Lou Williams -- 

https://twitter.com/JADubin5/status/1199...59493?s=20

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Its Go time         I feel like you haven't met RC's Det or Indiana teams.

After re-reading that, that is an overly harsh way of putting it, sorry, meant no disrespect.

No offense taken. 

although the game has changed a lot since then

In all honesty, those two teams would fair VERY well in today's NBA. Defense and muscle ball translates very well through the ages, the defensive schemes change, but the players willing to put in the work don't. Also, Ben Wallace and Dale Davis/Scot Pollard/Jeff Foster were the starting C's on each team. Were those teams ahead of their time?

It's an arguable point, and of course, we'll never know. Aside from the fact that teams aren't built that way any more for a reason, there were some knuckleheads in those groups, and they might just decide to beat up on the fans again and serve lengthy suspensions. But I take your point, and agree that many of them were large specimens with a defensive bent, and might have been very useful to a team like the Mavs one at a time (thus not violating Cubes' one-knucklehead limit).  

[sefant]

Powell forget how to play basketball. Its rough to watch at the moment. Rick should help him by putting him on the bench. He is better suited against bench mobs anyway. Maybe the Brunson/Barea and Powell connection can help him get back on track.

From not catching the ball to fumbling balls. His defense was always borderline abysmal.

And setting the tone early with a better defensive lineup should be key. I don't see any matchups where Powell is better suited compared to Kleber. Kleber can rim run as well. Baffling that he still starts, he never earned the starting spot once in a game. Kleber already had games were he played a huge part e.g. Raptors.

[dirkfansince1998]

Two things. Well actually three.

Interior defense and rebounding
Without KP in the game the Mavs give up layups. I have seen a lot of Powell as a single big this season and do not like it. The Clippers bullied both on the glass. The lack of boxouts is driving me crazy and it has been a problem all year long.
I won´t blame it solely on KP and Powell though. Rebounding is a team effort and if your bigs are struggling they need help. Luka is probably the best rebounder on the team and actually does a better job against guys like Harrell, Harkless or Tucker (last game) than Powell but it is probably not the best solution to waste his energy that way. DFS and Delon are solid as well.
We have to talk about THJ (29 min 1 reb), Curry (19 min 2reb) and Brunson (13 min 1reb). They combine for 61 minutes of playing time and 4 rebounds. If we include Barea (16 min 2reb) who probably won´t play in most games that makes 6 rebs in 77 minutes.
It´s not like the Clippers beat us with a single guy. They had 7 players with 5+ rebounds.

Perimeter defense
Notice a pattern. Offense isn´t the Mavs problem on most nights. Defense is a big one. Who is the best perimeter defender on the roster.
Delon? Probably slightly above average onball. Makes most of his impact as a team defender. Jumping passing lanes and playing help defense.
DFS? By default? Only semi athletic wing but in my opinion he is more of a hustle guy. Good rebounder (especially on offense) probably average on defense. Asking him to defend the best opposing player without any help is not going to work.
Luka? Honestly think that when he is giving 100% effort he might be the best against players like George or Kawhi but he is obviously trying to save some energy.

Offensive scheme
When the 5-out motion offense is working the Mavs are the best offense in the league. Pick and roll plays with Luka as the ballhandler are unguardable because the defense cannot take away all options. Floater, lob/inside pass, kick out pass or pass to a cutter. One option will be available and the Mavs will get a high percentage look nearly all the time. Problem is that the entire concept is based on the Mavs ability to hit 3s. The Clippers gave up the 3 but the Mavs could not punish them.
Which offers the question...what can they do on a cold shooting night. Does it make sense to change the scheme? What are the Mavs options?

[mavsluvr]

The Clippers may have put down the blueprint for defending KP by putting a smaller player on him

The rights to these go to Houston already, as Harden was guarding KP for extended period of time. In offense KP has only been dangerous as a spot up shooter so far. He did get at least one offensive rebound over the smaller player though. His post up play is limited to turnaround jumpers which are horribly inefficient at the moment.

I didn't consider Houston as a blueprint, since the plan didn't work for them. KP had his best game as a Mav against Houston. Of course, the difference between the Clippers defenders and James Harden is a gaping canyon. Of course, it doesn't matter who gets the bragging rights, but it does go to show that a team has to have the personnel to execute the defensive strategy. 

Agree that KP didn't have a good night against LA, but I think he is more than just a spot-up shooter. He's pretty good at the rim, he rebounds, and he's a competent passer. Believe we are all in agreement that his post game needs some attention. 

But please, Clippers team is ELITE. They have 2 of the top 10 players in the league. They have 3 former all NBA defense team members. They have the multiple 6th man of the year. They have 4 guys averaging over 15 points per game. 

Mavs have one top 5 guy and one other good player (hopefully he can get to all star level again). None of them has been in the defensive player of the year conversations.  Only one other guy has the average over 10 points per game. It is clear Mavs are realistically not capable of competing with Clippers. Not yet!

Since it is becoming clear that none of the non Luka or KP bunch can reliably step up on a nightly basis, we need an upgrade to become a true contender. But we can afford to wait till summer as we are probably good enough to make playoffs this year.

Agree. Mavs don't have the horses to compete with the Clippers. Yet. 

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Chucking 3 pt offense is going to kill this team

What else can they do when facing a serious team playing defense? We don't have the quality. Our centers have 0 post up game. Half of every line-up we put on the floor is not really dangerous from three which enables oponents to prevent Powell rim runs. Only Luka and Brunson are capable of creating their own shot or for others. To some extent Seth and THJ. Wright looks affraid to look at the basket half of the time. It is not my intent to be overly critical, let's just be realistic what we have on the roster. It is good and will work greatly against teams letting them, but our limitations will be exposed against strong defenses. Especially ones capable of throwing several big bodies at Luka.

I don't have a problem with the Mavs taking threes per se, but they might consider having the patience to work for better shots. They have a tendency to rush those threes, rather than pass or reset and get a more advantageous look. In this particular game, I wondered if they might have been so rattled by the Clippers defense that they thought their best bet was to get a shot off as soon as possible. In addition, they weren't having much look with 2PTAs either, missing 14 of their 29 attempts in the paint.

Agree that the Clippers did a good job of sussing out the Mavs' weaknesses and limiting their strengths. Which provides a lot of useful information, to look on the bright side. 

[Jommybone]

Jommy's takes:

1. The refs. Luka will get his turn. But it will come slower and lesser than if he were playing for a spotlight franchise. KP has lost the NY luster as well as the best-player-on-the-team calls. So of course he’s struggling. Maxi and Doe-Doe are just starting to achieve some semblance of reffing respect. Dwight is among the most "disrespected" in the league—to the extent that he regularly gets smacked in the head with no call, a la Shawn Bradley. But hey, no surprise. This is pro-wrestling-style officiating. The rules must bend for entertainment value. 

2. KP seems to shoot 2s while twisting, turning and sliding, always with his feet pointed off center. The talk of late that the Mavs staff has helped THJ with his shooting footwork? Time to turn that attention to Kristaps. Earlier in the season my chief complaint was that he (and Powell) failed to close out on 3-point shooters. That seems to be fixed mostly. So I can be patient waiting for the footwork to likewise improve. 

3. Speaking of THJ, I don’t think his "woke" streak has ended. Only 8 FG attempts and zero turnovers in 29 minutes? I'll take it. This is a different Tim. Shooting numbers go up and down for everyone. But these 2 stats say a lot about Hardaway's changed play. I’m converted from hater to fan. For now at least. 

4. Jalen will adjust to whatever it is and overcome. It’s what he does. Like GEICO. 

5. Defense. To become a great team, we need Luka to start mugging people like Kawhi and PG do. He’s got the size and strength and ref respect to pull it off. Has to happen. Or else we'll be mediocre.

[Scott41theMavs]

Seems like we all agree that the roster overall is subpar. I'm not sure what the Mavs were thinking this past summer. Why dump Harrison for all of that cap room if they had no intention of adding good players in the event that Kemba didn't want to come here? Don't get me wrong - Wright, Curry, and Boban (and Maxi and DFS) are all decent players on appropriate contracts, but we had $40 mil in cap space. Just ridiculous that we didn't get any real starters. 

The Mavs' only saving grace for right now with how they handcuffed themselves with the failure to add talent is the Barnes exception. If they don't make good use of that, then it's very difficult to envision how they can put an acceptably decent roster around Luka and KP prior to 2021. In any event, no players outside of Luka and KP are untouchable. Maxi and Wright come closest, but they're absolutely expendable for the right players in return.

[iolide]

Excuse the ignorance guys, but, I'd honestly like to know how valuable the exception is?

I remember a few months back seeing people say that exceptions are worth much anymore or don't hold the same value. Is that true?

In what way could you use the exception in a trade?

[fifteenth]

One other thing is how old tiny JJB can get what he wants and seems unaffected by the Clippers D.

Rick - He is a veteran of many wars; a very valiant man.

JJ - I am most certainly not a man, I am a hobbit.

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Seems like we all agree that the roster overall is subpar. I'm not sure what the Mavs were thinking this past summer. Why dump Harrison for all of that cap room if they had no intention of adding good players in the event that Kemba didn't want to come here?

I wouldn't call the roster subpar. But they're defiantly not on the Clippers level.

In the summer they struck out on the better players that they targeted and then signed players who had room to grow at tradeable contracts. They struck out with better vets but still added assetts.

But also, I don't think last night was all about the rosters. An upstart team has to learn to play with the big boys, often by getting thumped.

I think the roster can be improved via trade and possibly free agency (with a superstar Luka) but this roster as is can still get better through experience (especially by getting thumped by the big boys).

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Jommy's takes:

1. The refs. Luka will get his turn. But it will come slower and lesser than if he were playing for a spotlight franchise. KP has lost the NY luster as well as the best-player-on-the-team calls. So of course he’s struggling. Maxi and Doe-Doe are just starting to achieve some semblance of reffing respect. Dwight is among the most "disrespected" in the league—to the extent that he regularly gets smacked in the head with no call, a la Shawn Bradley. But hey, no surprise. This is pro-wrestling-style officiating. The rules must bend for entertainment value. 

2. KP seems to shoot 2s while twisting, turning and sliding, always with his feet pointed off center. The talk of late that the Mavs staff has helped THJ with his shooting footwork? Time to turn that attention to Kristaps. Earlier in the season my chief complaint was that he (and Powell) failed to close out on 3-point shooters. That seems to be fixed mostly. So I can be patient waiting for the footwork to likewise improve. 

3. Speaking of THJ, I don’t think his "woke" streak has ended. Only 8 FG attempts and zero turnovers in 29 minutes? I'll take it. This is a different Tim. Shooting numbers go up and down for everyone. But these 2 stats say a lot about Hardaway's changed play. I’m converted from hater to fan. For now at least. 

4. Jalen will adjust to whatever it is and overcome. It’s what he does. Like GEICO. 

5. Defense. To become a great team, we need Luka to start mugging people like Kawhi and PG do. He’s got the size and strength and ref respect to pull it off. Has to happen. Or else we'll be mediocre.

+77

[StepBackJay]

Powell is very frustrating right now. He is not doing much well. He doesn't rebound well, especially offensively. He can't block shots. He moves his feet pretty well which gives you hope that he can play better team defense. He can sort of take charges which is fine but you really want your big blocking shots. The one thing he is supposed to be elite as is rolling to the rim and it's just not going well. He has turned the ball over a lot lately and other guys on the team aren't exactly giving him amazing passes either so hard to say whose fault it is. I like our foursome including THJ (for now) but Powell is just not really offering much. I feel like it's a waste to have him out there. If we had Andre Iguodola or Adams or some other big time defender this starting unit would look really salty.

[Scott41theMavs]

Powell is very frustrating right now. He is not doing much well. He doesn't rebound well, especially offensively. He can't block shots. He moves his feet pretty well which gives you hope that he can play better team defense. He can sort of take charges which is fine but you really want your big blocking shots. The one thing he is supposed to be elite as is rolling to the rim and it's just not going well. He has turned the ball over a lot lately and other guys on the team aren't exactly giving him amazing passes either so hard to say whose fault it is. I like our foursome including THJ (for now) but Powell is just not really offering much. I feel like it's a waste to have him out there. If we had Andre Iguodola or Adams or some other big time defender this starting unit would look really salty.

I wouldn't say Powell is disappointing, although he has been playing less well than he has in past years. Rather, I would say that the contract extension the Mavs gave him this summer was disappointing. In the extreme.

[Fuerza1]

"A Few Thoughts. . ." 2300+ words later lol. 

As for the game, I saw 99 problems (and yes Luka was one) but I'm gonna hold my breath until it becomes more of a pattern. 

But I will say this: throwing in Barea was a forlorn move and there was no point in it. The game was practically over. Why not give that opportunity to someone who is actually part of the regular rotation? JJax, Seth, Brunson, Delon, whoever. These are the guys we need to build up and rely on. 

I just don't like the idea when things are going bad, Carlisle relapses to Puerto Rican rum. I think long term it sends a bad message to his team.

[ItsGoTime]

Excuse the ignorance guys, but, I'd honestly like to know how valuable the exception is?

I remember a few months back seeing people say that exceptions are worth much anymore or don't hold the same value. Is that true?

In what way could you use the exception in a trade?

We used some of it in the offseason, can't remember who it was partially used for. The amount left is $11.8M. We can only use it in a trade with 1 single player coming back and we cannot combine it with any of our players outgoing. The amount cannot go over the value of the TE. I looked yesterday for guys that might be at that level, but the thing is, they're all mostly what we have already and mostly in the $9-10M range. 

As I was looking, the best I could come up with as a target was Jerami Grant. I see him as on par with what we got currently, although I'm really low on Powell, and I was already low on him before. Biggest problem with him is the FO seemingly giving his play a pass. I think he'd be just fine on the bench with a lower contract. Not sure why he got a bigger one than Maxi as the two of them are basically on par with eachother, I just like defense more so I lean toward Maxi.

If you want to follow the exercise I did yesterday, I just brought up all the teams on the espn trade checker and looked for guys in the $8.5-11.5M range on each roster.

[mavsluvr]

Two things. Well actually three.

Interior defense and rebounding
Without KP in the game the Mavs give up layups. I have seen a lot of Powell as a single big this season and do not like it. The Clippers bullied both on the glass. The lack of boxouts is driving me crazy and it has been a problem all year long.
I won´t blame it solely on KP and Powell though. Rebounding is a team effort and if your bigs are struggling they need help. Luka is probably the best rebounder on the team and actually does a better job against guys like Harrell, Harkless or Tucker (last game) than Powell but it is probably not the best solution to waste his energy that way

I came across an article recently (maybe by Rob Mahoney?) analyzing the effect that Luka's superior rebounding has on the Mavs' flexibility regarding lineups. I believe one of the takeaways was, since Luka rebounds like a big man, it gives the team flexibility not to have two big guys on the court for rebounding purposes. 

DFS and Delon are solid as well.
We have to talk about THJ (29 min 1 reb), Curry (19 min 2reb) and Brunson (13 min 1reb). They combine for 61 minutes of playing time and 4 rebounds. If we include Barea (16 min 2reb) who probably won´t play in most games that makes 6 rebs in 77 minutes.
It´s not like the Clippers beat us with a single guy. They had 7 players with 5+ rebounds.

Well, when you put it that way. . . . Of course, it doesn't matter if they actually get the rebound if they are boxing out. I am guessing I know what your reply is going to be. 

Perimeter defense
Notice a pattern. Offense isn´t the Mavs problem on most nights. Defense is a big one. Who is the best perimeter defender on the roster.
Delon? Probably slightly above average onball. Makes most of his impact as a team defender. Jumping passing lanes and playing help defense.
DFS? By default? Only semi athletic wing but in my opinion he is more of a hustle guy. Good rebounder (especially on offense) probably average on defense. Asking him to defend the best opposing player without any help is not going to work.
Luka? Honestly think that when he is giving 100% effort he might be the best against players like George or Kawhi but he is obviously trying to save some energy.

I think the lockdown perimeter defender doesn't exist on this roster. Some are better than others, but none is super good on a consistent basis. 

Offensive scheme
When the 5-out motion offense is working the Mavs are the best offense in the league. Pick and roll plays with Luka as the ballhandler are unguardable because the defense cannot take away all options. Floater, lob/inside pass, kick out pass or pass to a cutter. One option will be available and the Mavs will get a high percentage look nearly all the time. Problem is that the entire concept is based on the Mavs ability to hit 3s. The Clippers gave up the 3 but the Mavs could not punish them.
Which offers the question...what can they do on a cold shooting night. Does it make sense to change the scheme? What are the Mavs options?

Agree that the offense depends substantially on the players' hitting threes at a respectable clip. It is designed to get them the best looks from three, but when they rush their shots, they don't take advantage of the system. I guess it's possible they are being instructed to shoot quickly, but I imagine it is more that they don't trust the system to deliver them better shots. Not that they don't buy into the system -- I think they do. But they have not yet become proficient at executing it, which makes sense, so early in the season. Agree that a system depending on good three-point shooting calls out for good three-point shooters, and I would guess that they plan to grow or buy them. I don't think they're going to change the scheme without giving it more of a chance, unless they make roster moves that compel a revision. 

Good thoughts.

[Jommybone]

Maxi = Dwight? Whoa there, buddy. Maxi shoots 3s, defends the rim, and switches onto point guards like nobody's business. Powell does none of that. The only similarity I see is that neither is built to defend bullies in the post.

[SportPsychMav]

Am I the only one who thinks the Mavs are just rattled against the physical teams? They look like they just cannot matchup the physicality.

They looker exhausted and flat the whole game.

Their decision-making wasn't even that bad.

THJr for example didn't look bad to me in this one.

The rotation to start the 2nd was a bit confusing and seemed to be created from non basketball reasons.

Overall they just lacked strength and savviness to me.

It's the sole questionmark left for this team.

They struggled with the Knicks(2x), Orlando, Portland, Lakers, Clippers who all roughed them up and fouled a lot.

And it seems to me it's not only they are getting into the heads of our players but mostly really that they cannot matchup with that.

They lack the power. I'm not sure they can develop that. If they can great, if not Cubes needs to jump the gun and add a less than 100% and totally nice player.

[BigDirk41]

My view of the Mavs didn't change after last night. I was expecting a close game since we were at home so the whipping caught me off guard, but last night made it obvious that we don't match up well with the Clippers and we are no where near their level. The flip side of that is I think we match up pretty well with the other top teams. We had the Lakers beat and we've already beat Denver and Houston.

I think last night made it pretty clear that we aren't getting past the Clips this year. They are extremely talented on both ends of the court, they are long and they have experience along with a really good coach. They don't have any holes.

We can make a trade or two this season and depending on seeding have a real chance at going deep into the playoffs. I don't see any roster upgrade this season that makes us better than the Clips. From that perspective I'm just going to enjoy the season and see how much we can progress.

Last summer was definitely a bust. Powell doesn't deserve more than 10-15 minutes a night with his current output. Maxi should play 30 minutes a night. I think the best hope we can have is to stay hot as a team and build up the value of some of our players so we can cash in on a trade or two this season. I don't know who we should target, but we need tougher players for sure.

[SportPsychMav]

My view of the Mavs didn't change after last night. I was expecting a close game since we were at home so the whipping caught me off guard, but last night made it obvious that we don't match up well with the Clippers and we are no where near their level. The flip side of that is I think we match up pretty well with the other top teams. We had the Lakers beat and we've already beat Denver and Houston.

I think last night made it pretty clear that we aren't getting past the Clips this year. They are extremely talented on both ends of the court, they are long and they have experience along with a really good coach. They don't have any holes.

We can make a trade or two this season and depending on seeding have a real chance at going deep into the playoffs. I don't see any roster upgrade this season that makes us better than the Clips. From that perspective I'm just going to enjoy the season and see how much we can progress.

Last summer was definitely a bust. Powell doesn't deserve more than 10-15 minutes a night with his current output. Maxi should play 30 minutes a night. I think the best hope we can have is to stay hot as a team and build up the value of some of our players so we can cash in on a trade or two this season. I don't know who we should target, but we need tougher players for sure.

He played hurt, if he was questionable it means he played on far less than 100%.

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One more observation: The bench players executed the zone very well, the starters didn't play zone.

Mavs need a bruiser, wide body. They have none.

[BigDirk41]

I was only speaking of Maxi's playing time in general, not specifically last night. I know he was hurt somewhat.

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Overall we have some glaring holes that need addressed, but I think we all knew that prior to last night.

[omahen]

Excuse the ignorance guys, but, I'd honestly like to know how valuable the exception is?

I remember a few months back seeing people say that exceptions are worth much anymore or don't hold the same value. Is that true?

In what way could you use the exception in a trade?

We used some of it in the offseason, can't remember who it was partially used for. The amount left is $11.8M. We can only use it in a trade with 1 single player coming back and we cannot combine it with any of our players outgoing. The amount cannot go over the value of the TE. I looked yesterday for guys that might be at that level, but the thing is, they're all mostly what we have already and mostly in the $9-10M range. 

As I was looking, the best I could come up with as a target was Jerami Grant. I see him as on par with what we got currently, although I'm really low on Powell, and I was already low on him before. Biggest problem with him is the FO seemingly giving his play a pass. I think he'd be just fine on the bench with a lower contract. Not sure why he got a bigger one than Maxi as the two of them are basically on par with eachother, I just like defense more so I lean toward Maxi.

If you want to follow the exercise I did yesterday, I just brought up all the teams on the espn trade checker and looked for guys in the $8.5-11.5M range on each roster.

Why would someone give us a good player like Grant for free? Denver actually paid a first round pick for him. You can only hope to use TE to absorb a bad contract in exchange for picks. So look at Felicio or Exum type of contracts. I think first rounder is unlikely to take this kind of contract.