A Few Thoughts on Mavs 99, Clippers 114

[mavsluvr]

Clippers Shear the Mavs

The Clips were favored by 1.5 points, and there is no shame in losing to them, but they flat shaved the hair off our boys' chests. A good model for the young Mavs on how a contender plays. 


Game Story

The contest had a playoff-like atmosphere, with the crowd highly amped and the players in high-intensity mode. Stunned by the Clippers' physicality and energy, the Mavs were holding up okay until the wheels came off during a period beginning with the last couple of minutes of the first quarter, and extending through the second. At 2:13 in the first period, the Mavs were down by three points. They finished the frame with two missed threes, an offensive foul, and two free throws by Brunson. Meanwhile, the Clips hit two threes. 

The second quarter was a nightmare. The Mavs committed 9 turnovers, gave up 6 offensive rebounds, hit only five shots out of 19 attempts (2-7 2PTAs, 3-12 3PTAs, 6-7 FTAs), allowed the Clippers 9 more shots than the Mavs had, and scored a season-low 19 points. The Clips reached a game-high lead of 19 before ending the quarter with a 62-46 advantage. Pew-eee. 

The Mavericks actually won the second half by one point, but just never made much headway climbing out of the first-half hole, trailing by double digits the entire 24 minutes. Rick emptied the bench at the 2:08 mark. The team's 99-point total was the lowest of the season. 


Analytics

The story of the game was allowing the Clippers to put up 18 more shot attempts than the Mavs. This happened due to 20 turnovers, which were mostly of the live ball variety, and giving up 17 offensive rebounds. To compound the misery, Dallas shot poorly, completing 19 of 41 two-point attempts and 11 of 38 three-point tries (29%). The Clippers didn't shoot much better, but were a little better, and their greater efficiency, when added to their huge possession advantage, resulted in the blowout. 


Observations. The Clippers clearly took the Mavs seriously. They were very intense, and took no plays off. A big part of their strategy was being very physical, even to the point of being borderline dirty. The Mavs had 35 free throw attempts, but the refs didn't call everything, and you wonder how much difference another set of officials would have made. Be that as it may, the Mavericks were not ready for it, and had a difficult time adjusting. The LA boys aggressively forced a lot of those 20 turnovers, and crashed the offensive glass with determination. It was a different level of competition than these Mavs have faced thus far, and there should be much they can learn from it. 


Players

Luka (35 minutes).  The Clippers devoted a lot of attention to the young star, shoving and battering him relentlessly, and throwing bodies at him his entire time on the court. He still had a decent game (22-8-6), getting to the line for 16 free throw attempts, and adding three steals. However, he made only 4 of his 14 shots, and turned the ball over 7 times. He was clearly frustrated, and at one point, was seen yelling at the refs, mouthing what Tim MacMahon reported as Spanish curse words. He was called for his fourth foul reaching in on Kawhi with 6:17 remaining in the third quarter. He stayed in the game, but was unable to be as aggressive while he was in foul trouble. Possibly the result of being frustrated, and maybe a little flustered. He looked crushed in his bench minutes in the fourth quarter, and left the arena after the game without talking to the media. 

Ceballos observed that the Clippers did a pretty good job of wearing Luka down with their physical play, and thinks most teams will take that approach with him. Rick noted that Luka was "knocked around" early, and was frustrated with the officiating, but said that he understands the culture of this type of game and handled it well. On the brighter side, Patrick Beverley was totally unable to defend Luka, spending much of the game on the bench in foul trouble, and drawing enthusiastic cheers whenever he had to leave the court, lol. 

Porzingis (30 minutes).  Kristaps had a mediocre offensive night, downing only 4 of 13 shots, and hitting 4 of 8 free throws. He had 10 rebounds and a couple of steals, but was unable to deal very well with LA's big men. With he and Luka both having subpar nights by their standards, the Mavs were pretty well doomed from the off. He seemed in reasonably stoic spirits in his postgame interview. And he had a spectacular buzzer-beating three from the logo to end the first half. 

THJ (29 minutes). Tim reverted to the mean to an extent in this match, recording 8 points, 1 rebound and 1 assist. He did have three very good steals, but unfortunately, none of them resulted in Maverick points. He was called for a technical foul in the third quarter for making a gesture which offended the ref. Some regression from his recent spectacular performances was to be expected. The question after this game will be whether those efforts were indicative of a trend, or were mere outliers. I wouldn't say he had a bad game -- just not very good, either. 

Powell (24 minutes).  Powell put ten points on the board, and was one of two Mavericks, along with Seth, who hit over 50% of his shots (3-3 2PTAs, 1-2 3PTAs, 1-2 FTAs). He also had active hands, with 3 steals, but turned the ball over a couple of times, and grabbed only three rebounds. The Clippers' burly centers were able to outmuscle him defensively and on the glass. When Rick is occasionally asked why Powell plays so much, he reminds his questioners that DP is king of the plus-minus stat, and this game was no exception. Single-game individual plus-minus is an extremely noisy statistic, but for those who put stock in it, his mark was zero, which was third best on the team, after Justin Jackson, who played only in garbage time, and Barea, who scored a +5. 

Curry (19 minutes).  Seth was the only Mav with a good shooting night, hitting two of his three 2PTAs and three of his five 3PTAs, to lead the bench with 13 points, although five of those were earned in garbage time. The Mavs needed someone who could put the ball in the basket, and he provided some assistance in that department. 

Wright (18 minutes). Imo, Delon had a below-average night, as did some of the other Mavs. He looked pretty lost out there, seemed hesitant to shoot (taking only three shots), turned the ball over three times, and looked pretty much like a deer in the proverbial headlights. 

Maxi (17 minutes). Maxi was nursing a knee injury, and was the subject of a late decision clearing him to play. The Mavs could have used him in prime condition, but I suspect that his minutes were limited due to the knee issue. I have to say that he was not up to snuff while he was on the court, quite possibly due to not being 100% physically. He took only two shots, missing them both, and turned the ball over. He did manage to secure 6 rebounds, but was no more able to deal with the LA centers than the other Mavs. 

Barea (16 minutes).  Carlisle had previously informed us that he saves JJ for "emergencies," and the situation became dire enough to call upon him when the Mavs went down by 20 in the third quarter. He played with verve, and was one of the few bright spots on the night. He gave the team a spark with 12 points, including a couple of threes, and was one of the few Mavs who had no turnovers (along with DFS, THJ, Boban, and Jackson). Rick commented that the Puerto Rican guard gave the side a "pop," and further observed that Barea and Luka have great synergy, and that Barea is very good about keeping himself ready. Ceballos and Buckner referred to JJ as a "little dog," barking and trash-talking, and making himself a general nuisance to the opposition. Cedric doesn't know why Barea isn't playing more, but allowed that his PT is a matter between him and the coaches. I imagine that he is being used sparingly because the Mavs don't view him as part of the future, but it is still handy to be able to call on him when they need help in the present.

Brunson (13 minutes). Jalen had a pretty bad night, compared to his usual performances. He went 1 of 6 from the floor, turned the ball over three times in short minutes, and didn't seem to make as good decisions as he normally does. I attribute it to being shell-shocked by the Clips. 

Boban (8 minutes). Boban made an appearance at the end of the first quarter and beginning of the second, but it didn't go very well. Carlisle said that his participation had been planned, since he is a former Clipper, and had some familiarity with their personnel, but the speed and athleticism of the game were too much for him. Rick said they tried it, but it didn't work. With Maxi playing hurt, and Boban not up to it, more pressure than usual was on Dwight and KP, who both struggled a bit. 


The Clippers

This is a seriously good team. Rick referred to Kawhi and Paul George as possibly the two most physical, big, skilled, and athletic wings in the league. He didn't add that the Mavs don't really have the personnel to counter that, but it was evident on the court. The Clips are a very deep team, having a number of guys who are capable of putting up 20 points or more on any given night, and three who did so in this contest (Kawhi, George, and Lou Williams). They might well have the best collection of two-way players in the NBA. Cedric remarked that even Williams, who went off for 21 points off the bench, is a decent defender, and that is hard to match. The Mavs are used to their bench being a strength, but the Clippers' bench is even better offensively, and boasts more complete players. Ceballos described the level of talent up and down the roster as "ridiculous," and it is hard to disagree. 

I didn't like their overly physical play, which Harp noted sometimes resembled football tackles more than basketball plays, but you can't blame them if they're getting away with it. However, I think it is good for the Mavericks to have faced this group early on, so they could experience how it's done. 


Commentary

Greg Buckner and Ceballos.  The broadcasters were of the opinion that, at this point in time, the Clippers simply have a better roster than the Mavs. The Clips are more talented, they are physical at every position, their defense is quite strong, and they have multiple scorers. The commentators also thought the Mavs are just not used to playing this playoff type of game, where the pace slows down and the game is so physical and intense. Additionally, they believe that the Mavs have to a degree been sneaking up on their opponents, whereas the Clippers were ready for them, and brought their "A" game. Overall, they thought this game could serve as a very good learning experience. 

Carlisle.  Rick took responsibility for failing to prepare the team for the Clippers' physicality. He noted LA's exceptional wings, physical centers, and guards who hounded the Mavs from midcourt. In the first half, the Mavs got a few good shots, but gave up 13 offensive rebounds and didn't play well. He thought they were much better in the second half, and a lot of guys made contributions, but they were just in too deep a hole. He opined that they just have to move on. 

Porzingis. Kristaps acknowledged that his side got "punched in the mouth," but felt that the match had showed the Mavericks the level at which a championship quality team plays. He thinks that proper team goals include playing with similar intensity to the Clips, and learning how to play against a side that slows down the tempo. 

My impressions. I agree that this group of players has little experience playing against very physical teams, and none at this type of intense match. This was in some respects a measure of where the Mavs are on their team trajectory, and we learned that they still have a ways to go, which is to be expected, considering the circumstances. The Mavericks as an organization have something of a tradition of not handling physicality very well, and that is something they can work on, although I suspect a roster upgrade or three will be required to fully address the issue. The team is relatively weak defensively at the wing positions, and they lack a big, mobile center. We can probably look for those spots to be shored up as time goes on. 

Despite the decisive loss, the overall picture is not without a bright side. I liked it that the players didn't hang their heads, and kept plugging, even in the face of superior enemy force and arguably lax officiating. If the Mavs are willing to use this as a learning experience, I think it could be incredibly invaluable, as they are not likely to see this level of play very much in the regular season. I think it is a huge compliment to the team that the Clippers regarded them so seriously and put their best foot forward against a Dallas opponent whom they obviously respected. 

Although I was, of course, disappointed with the result, I mainly like the match. It gave us a reference point wrt the squad's strengths and weaknesses, and provided a guide for the coaching staff/front office as to where they need to improve and build. I feel badly for Luka, who looked absolutely devastated, but I imagine he is resilient enough to bounce back. The Mavs just ran into a better team. It happens. 


Next.  The Mavs face the surprisingly good Suns on Friday. Have a Happy Thanksgiving!

[Branduil]

I don't care what plus/minus says, we need a better starter than Powell. A bruising PF type like Favors or Thompson would be perfect.

[mavsluvr]

Listened to Locked on Mavs, which had some interesting observations. As an example, they had a segment analyzing the team weaknesses that the Clippers exposed. In a positive way, as areas for improvement. 


--  On nights where the other team closes Luka down, they need KP to reliably step up. As long as KP is unable to take advantage of mismatches, he can't be that player. The Clippers may have put down the blueprint for defending KP by putting a smaller player on him, and taking advantage of the fact that he isn't good at posting up, so they can switch without penalty. Having said that, they observe that not many teams have good enough smaller defenders to pull it off. However, the Mavs cannot be an elite team without a reliable second option.


--  The Clippers limited Luka by letting him into the paint and then cutting off all the passing lanes, leaving him to tussle with a big guy and try to figure something out by himself with limited options. This also might be a blueprint that not many teams have the personnel to follow, though. 


--  The Mavs need some roster upgrades to contend with a team like the Clippers. 

         Kawhi is way too strong for DFS et al.  to successfully defend. In fairness, most teams don't have anyone who can shut down Kawhi. But they need a guy or guys who can deal with that type of size and strength if they want to compete at that level. In the Clippers' case, Paul George is their other primary wing, and the Mavs couldn't defend him, either, especially when both of them were on the court. 

         The Clippers have multiple guys that can jump in and score in bunches. The Mavs have no third option at all. When Luka and KP are both off the floor, there is no clear go-to guy that can dependably create and/or score. One could think about giving Barea that responsibility, but then they would have to cut down the minutes of one or more of (1) Wright, who does a lot of things Barea doesn't do, (2) Seth, who is the bench's best shooter, and (3) Brunson, who provides important playmaking. They think THJ should be funneled into more of a 3 and D position, as opposed to trying to be a creator. As far as this match goes, they think it might have helped to bring JJB in a little earlier, but doubt that it would have made the difference between a W and an L. They also note that JJB's presence on the roster enables the front office to use one of the other backup guards in a trade, if that seems warranted. 


--  The bench was completely overmatched and looked lost. The lack of a sixth man, discussed above, is part of the problem. Other than that, they don't necessarily consider reinforcing the second unit a high-priority issue in and of itself, because there are so few teams that have a bench that is substantially better than the Mavs. However, it's still an item. 


--  They thought that Dwight Powell was exposed by LA. He was missing passes, stumbling through the lane, and generally playing badly. The Mavs need a big man who is consistently elite in the paint if they want to contend. In this match, the Clippers held a 48-30 advantage in PIP. 


They do make it clear that these are weaknesses if the Mavs want to be considered an elite team. While they are already pretty good, issues like these need to be addressed to take it to the next level. 

One might or might not agree with these comments, but they're interesting to consider after a game like this one. 


https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/locked-...oplay=true

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[train0038]

Chucking 3 pt offense is going to kill this team...

[omahen]

The Clippers may have put down the blueprint for defending KP by putting a smaller player on him

The rights to these go to Houston already, as Harden was guarding KP for extended period of time. In offense KP has only been dangerous as a spot up shooter so far. He did get at least one offensive rebound over the smaller player though. His post up play is limited to turnaround jumpers which are horribly inefficient at the moment.

But please, Clippers team is ELITE. They have 2 of the top 10 players in the league. They have 3 former all NBA defense team members. They have the multiple 6th man of the year. They have 4 guys averaging over 15 points per game. 

Mavs have one top 5 guy and one other good player (hopefully he can get to all star level again). None of them has been in the defensive player of the year conversations.  Only one other guy has the average over 10 points per game. It is clear Mavs are realistically not capable of competing with Clippers. Not yet!

Since it is becoming clear that none of the non Luka or KP bunch can reliably step up on a nightly basis, we need an upgrade to become a true contender. But we can afford to wait till summer as we are probably good enough to make playoffs this year.

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Chucking 3 pt offense is going to kill this team

What else can they do when facing a serious team playing defense? We don't have the quality. Our centers have 0 post up game. Half of every line-up we put on the floor is not really dangerous from three which enables oponents to prevent Powell rim runs. Only Luka and Brunson are capable of creating their own shot or for others. To some extent Seth and THJ. Wright looks affraid to look at the basket half of the time. It is not my intent to be overly critical, let's just be realistic what we have on the roster. It is good and will work greatly against teams letting them, but our limitations will be exposed against strong defenses. Especially ones capable of throwing several big bodies at Luka.

[DanSchwartzgan]

 
They do make it clear that these are weaknesses if the Mavs want to be considered an elite team. While they are already pretty good, issues like these need to be addressed to take it to the next level. 

 

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First things first, How about them Lumberjacks!

There are tiers at the top of each conference.  We are currently tied for fourth, but it doesn't mean we are top tier.  We've beaten fellow top of the west contenders Houston and Denver and almost took down the Lakers, but it doesn't mean we are top tier.  We can say "it was just a bad night", but this definitely showed gaps that have to be filled in order to take the next step.  Still, if someone had said on 10/1 that we'd be playing .650 ball and would be 3 1/2 games ahead of the 9th place team on 11/27, we'd have all been happy to take it.

These are all different ways of saying the same things you just said, but here are my thoughts in terms of filling the gaps:

1.  We don't have a creator for when teams knock Luka off his game.  The design of this team was to have a second creator in the starting lineup.  But, Luka is so ball dominant that it is hard to take advantage of the skill of another creator (or is it that we don't have another creator and therefore Luka has to be more ball dominant).  Either way, Wright, Curry and Brunson have either not been up to the job or have preferred coming off the bench.  We still haven't lost a game where Hardaway has gotten two or more assists and last night he got one.  He's been a willing passer during our recent win streak.  But, he's not a natural creator.

2.  We have to be able to play with force at the wing.  DFS is having a great season, but try as he might, he's too skinny to guard the studs of the league.  Jackson and THJ are no help here either.  I love me some DFS, but in an ideal world, we'd have someone better here forcing Finney to be the hustle play glue guy who dominates bench players.

3.  We have to be able to play with force in the paint.  KP is a super-skinny offensively gifted big who is a great help defender.  Powell and Maxi have proven to be helpful, but they've traditionally done most of their damage against bench bigs.  The Clippers paint dominance (scoring and especially offensive rebounds) just killed us.  Same thing happened late against the Lakers.  Powell was no match one on one in the post against AD.  I get that Dallas has a vision of playing KP as a 5 and having either floor spreading Maxi or PNR savant Powell in the game with him.  But, neither is the way to go against the best in the league.  We need more beef, but that beef either needs to be able to hit an outside shot or replicate some of Powell's superior screen game.  Donnie has said "you almost can't draft a big anymore if he can't hit a 3".  But, you also can't play a big with KP who can't hold his own defensively and on the boards...even if they can hit a 3.  

All of this is to say what has been said many times before.  We have two stars and 8 guys who are essentially good 5-7 types.  It makes us deep and often that is good enough.  But against the best, we are really missing guys who can be our third and fourth best player on a consistent basis.

[Hypermav]

As long as KP is unable to take advantage of mismatches, he can't be that player.

For this team to take that next step, KP has to punish teams.  The last couple of games, KP would take off and it looked like he was going to do something spectacular at the rim but then seems unsure at the last moment.  I hope that comes with time.  I know he has the talent.  I think he should be shooting better right now.  


Clipper have 3 offensive studs and 3-4 all world defenders at the end of the game.  Dallas has one offensive stud.

Clippers are better than the Lakers and would have given a healthy KD lead GSW all they wanted.

One other thing is how old tiny JJB can get what he wants and seems unaffected by the Clippers D.

[mavsluvr]

I don't care what plus/minus says, we need a better starter than Powell. A bruising PF type like Favors or Thompson would be perfect.

Tbh, I'm not sure Carlisle really buys this plus-minus defense of Powell, even as he is saying it. Usually, if he really wants to defend a player, he will argue a list of things that the player does well and the team needs. With questions about Powell's PT or starting status, it's often just a citation of his plus-minus prowess. Individual plus-minus is not generally regarded by basketball statisticians as a particularly reliable statistic, as it contains such a vast amount of noise. But Cuban has a history of being intrigued by it, and the organization as a whole is quite analytics-oriented. So, I think there is an element of parroting a company line, as a polite way of avoiding getting into performance details that he doesn't want to share with the media. 

Bruisers have a history of not being especially effective in Carlisle's systems. But I agree that, at a minimum, they need a full-size center who can also move around well. I would not be opposed to keeping Powell around, but ideally, he would come off the bench, where he actually might provide an impactful punch.

[Nowitzki Way]

This game really showed how far the Mavs are from contention. The Clippers have built a championship roster. They come at you in so many ways.  Offensiviely and defensively. Very impressive team. Enough about them. Lets talk Mavs.

Luka- This may of been his worst game of the season, outside the Denver game. The Clippers were physical with him as soon as he came across midcourt. He was 0 for 8 on threes. All of those 3 were tightly contested too. I think his 3 point game is what gets him going, if he's struggling there then look out. All that physical play sent him to the free line a ton, but it also took a lot out of him. Not to mention running a second defender at him.  I think we'll see teams try to guard Luka this way in the future.  That's where we need our 2nd superstar to step up.

KP- We've all realized he is just a 7'3" outside shooter.  He is not a guy that can post up, drive around a defender,  or create on his own. He is a catch and shoot guy only. Mix in lobs and put backs, that's what he is. He cannot takeover a game when Luka is off like last night. This wont be enough to get us to championship contention. We need a 2nd scorer who can create and score.

Powell- I hope he is still hurt or rounding into shape. He looked horrible last night. Bad passes, fumbling and falling over. It was ugly. He is not starter material for this team. Our hole is the 5 spot right now. Powell offers no rebounding, no help side defense, he cant guard the stronger inside guys. He and KP are too small to bang with the big boys. We need a bully on the inside or this team will get manhandled come playoff time.

Barea- So is he our little spark plug when the team needs a boost? Barea comes in and scores, great. But he is a horrible fit next to Luka. JJB has always been and always will be a blackhole when gets the ball. He over dribbles, doesn't look to pass, and takes his own shots. It completely takes Luka out of the game. I'm ok with JJ coming off the bench for 10 minutes but he should spend 0 minutes with Luka.

Brunson- What is going on with him? He's had a few good games, but he's  lost out there for most of the year. He doesn't fit in the starting group with Luka, so his role on this team is on the bench.  When he comes in he shares the floor with Wright and Curry. Two other small guards. Either he is not comfortable with his role, or something else is going on. I think he is a prime trade candidate to be added on to someone like Powell, Lee, or Hardaway Jr. come trade deadline.

When Hardaway Jr. starts, this bench is exposed. We have no one who can score consistently. Having Brunson on the court with Curry and Wright is atrocious. This would have been a good game for Jackson to get minutes.

My take from this game is much like a lot of others. This team will need an upgrade or two before we go anywhere.  We have a superstar in Luka and then a nice piece in KP. Then we have the rest who are all role players on decent teams. We need to combine a few of these guys and round out this team.

[CaptainKnow]

wow. great commentaries and analysis from everyone. I don't get to see the games, so thanks everyone!

[mavsluvr]

This game really showed how far the Mavs are from contention. The Clippers have built a championship roster. They come at you in so many ways.  Offensiviely and defensively. Very impressive team. Enough about them. Lets talk Mavs.

I thought the Mavs began to look just mentally and physically exhausted later on in the game. Wherever they turned, there was Kawhi, or George, or Harkless, or Harrell, or Williams, etc. It was relentless. 

Luka- This may of been his worst game of the season, outside the Denver game. The Clippers were physical with him as soon as he came across midcourt. He was 0 for 8 on threes. All of those 3 were tightly contested too. I think his 3 point game is what gets him going, if he's struggling there then look out. All that physical play sent him to the free line a ton, but it also took a lot out of him. Not to mention running a second defender at him.  I think we'll see teams try to guard Luka this way in the future.  That's where we need our 2nd superstar to step up.

It seemed to me that Luka had a look of desperation in the fourth quarter, as it dawned on him that he was out of ideas, and the rest of the players and coaches were not able to help him. My biggest worry about Luka long term is that he grows disillusioned if the Mavs don't put the right horses around him, and he goes off to join a superteam, a la KD. 

KP- We've all realized he is just a 7'3" outside shooter.  He is not a guy that can post up, drive around a defender,  or create on his own. He is a catch and shoot guy only. Mix in lobs and put backs, that's what he is. He cannot takeover a game when Luka is off like last night. This wont be enough to get us to championship contention. We need a 2nd scorer who can create and score.

I think that is the real issue. Teams will ultimately figure out ways to defend Luka, and someone else needs to be able to step up. Maybe KP will learn to do that, but he's not there yet. 

Powell- I hope he is still hurt or rounding into shape. He looked horrible last night. Bad passes, fumbling and falling over. It was ugly. He is not starter material for this team. Our hole is the 5 spot right now. Powell offers no rebounding, no help side defense, he cant guard the stronger inside guys. He and KP are too small to bang with the big boys. We need a bully on the inside or this team will get manhandled come playoff time.

Powell is a bench guy who has been Peter Principled. He seems like a fine person and a good locker room guy, but on a contending team, he belongs on the second unit, unless a starter is unavailable. 

Barea- So is he our little spark plug when the team needs a boost? Barea comes in and scores, great. But he is a horrible fit next to Luka. JJB has always been and always will be a blackhole when gets the ball. He over dribbles, doesn't look to pass, and takes his own shots. It completely takes Luka out of the game. I'm ok with JJ coming off the bench for 10 minutes but he should spend 0 minutes with Luka.

Actually, I think Barea and Luka can play together. I agree that he has a tendency to over dribble and to call his own number, but in fairness, he has been brought on this season for the specific purpose of providing a scoring punch. Luka is effective playing off the ball, and having another playmaker on the floor might be a way of giving him a bit of a mental rest while keeping him on the court. Having said that, I don't expect JJB to be a starter, but I don't see a problem with him playing a few minutes with Luka now and then. 

Brunson- What is going on with him? He's had a few good games, but he's  lost out there for most of the year. He doesn't fit in the starting group with Luka, so his role on this team is on the bench.  When he comes in he shares the floor with Wright and Curry. Two other small guards. Either he is not comfortable with his role, or something else is going on. I think he is a prime trade candidate to be added on to someone like Powell, Lee, or Hardaway Jr. come trade deadline.

Agree that it is unclear what the plan is with Brunson. Agree that he is far from untouchable.

When Hardaway Jr. starts, this bench is exposed. We have no one who can score consistently. Having Brunson on the court with Curry and Wright is atrocious. This would have been a good game for Jackson to get minutes.

That is a downside of using THJ as a starter, although he can still spend some minutes with the second unit. I know no one wants to hear this, but I think the organization's focus this season is Luka and KP, and it wouldn't shock me if most or all of these role players were cycled out in a season or two. And the ones that are kept will hopefully have more limited roles. 

My take from this game is much like a lot of others. This team will need an upgrade or two before we go anywhere.  We have a superstar in Luka and then a nice piece in KP. Then we have the rest who are all role players on decent teams. We need to combine a few of these guys and round out this team.

To get to the Clippers' level, they probably have to rehaul the roster, if we're being realistic. I don't think it's any emergency, as their goal this season is to perfect the Luka-KP combo and make the playoffs, and they are in good shape to have a shot at that if everyone stays healthy. I think they would like to be in a position to make a deeper run next season. 

Interesting thoughts. I am looking forward to seeing how it all unfolds.

[Nowitzki Way]

That is a downside of using THJ as a starter, although he can still spend some minutes with the second unit. I know no one wants to hear this, but I think the organization's focus this season is Luka and KP, and it wouldn't shock me if most or all of these role players were cycled out in a season or two. And the ones that are kept will hopefully have more limited roles. 

My take from this game is much like a lot of others. This team will need an upgrade or two before we go anywhere.  We have a superstar in Luka and then a nice piece in KP. Then we have the rest who are all role players on decent teams. We need to combine a few of these guys and round out this team.

To get to the Clippers' level, they probably have to rehaul the roster, if we're being realistic. I don't think it's any emergency, as their goal this season is to perfect the Luka-KP combo and make the playoffs, and they are in good shape to have a shot at that if everyone stays healthy. I think they would like to be in a position to make a deeper run next season. 

Interesting thoughts. I am looking forward to seeing how it all unfolds.

I think you are absolutely correct about the focus of this organization. They want to see Luka and KP mesh and grow together. The rest of the guys are just role players, and trade bait. I don't think they or any of us figured they would look this good so fast.  I don't think anyone could predict the jump Luka has made from year 1 to year 2.  He is legit MVP candidate. But I do think we all figured KP would be a little better.  So how good could we be if KP improves and we can flip a few of these role players for a legit #2 or #3 option.

[ItsGoTime]

Bruisers have a history of not being especially effective in Carlisle's systems. But I agree that, at a minimum, they need a full-size center who can also move around well. I would not be opposed to keeping Powell around, but ideally, he would come off the bench, where he actually might provide an impactful punch.

I feel like you haven't met RC's Det or Indiana teams. Our championship team had a bruiser or two (I would call Butler, Stevenson and Kidd bruisers) and some tough nosed guys (JJB and TC) on it too. Just need a few guys that will be able to punch back when it comes to that. Luka is great with absorbing the damage, but he doesn't have the mindset that he could have to do this a bit too. I really think Favors and Crowder would be the perfect fit with these guys. In the sense that they're probably pretty gettable and fill the need we have. I think Adams is out of our price range of tradable assets (at least it seems that OKC is content with his contract), unless THJ makes his contract a non-issue.

[mavsluvr]

That is a downside of using THJ as a starter, although he can still spend some minutes with the second unit. I know no one wants to hear this, but I think the organization's focus this season is Luka and KP, and it wouldn't shock me if most or all of these role players were cycled out in a season or two. And the ones that are kept will hopefully have more limited roles. 

My take from this game is much like a lot of others. This team will need an upgrade or two before we go anywhere.  We have a superstar in Luka and then a nice piece in KP. Then we have the rest who are all role players on decent teams. We need to combine a few of these guys and round out this team.

To get to the Clippers' level, they probably have to rehaul the roster, if we're being realistic. I don't think it's any emergency, as their goal this season is to perfect the Luka-KP combo and make the playoffs, and they are in good shape to have a shot at that if everyone stays healthy. I think they would like to be in a position to make a deeper run next season. 

Interesting thoughts. I am looking forward to seeing how it all unfolds.

I think you are absolutely correct about the focus of this organization. They want to see Luka and KP mesh and grow together. The rest of the guys are just role players, and trade bait. I don't think they or any of us figured they would look this good so fast.  I don't think anyone could predict the jump Luka has made from year 1 to year 2.  He is legit MVP candidate. But I do think we all figured KP would be a little better.  So how good could we be if KP improves and we can flip a few of these role players for a legit #2 or #3 option.

Agree that the Mavs have exceeded expectations.

 
With respect to KP, we fans probably figured he would be better, but I think the organization was probably pretty realistic about it taking some time for him to ramp up. For one thing, he is coming off an ACL tear, and players with that injury rarely achieve their past productivity in their first season back. For another, he was playing with the Knicks in a very different system, in a very different role, and it was bound to be a process for him to learn an entirely new way of playing. It is arguable that, considering he was in many ways starting from scratch, he is a fast learner. The Knicks also had a toxic culture, and there is some likelihood that he is having to unlearn some bad habits. To me, the real questions where he is concerned are (1) can he stay healthy, and (2) what is his ceiling. 

If Luka stays healthy, I think the sky is the limit in terms of possibilities. But there is a lot of work to do on the court and in the front office, and there are bound to be some things that don't go quite as hoped. But I think they can at least develop into the reliable playoff team they once were for so many years.

[omahen]

Powell is a bench guy who has been Peter Principled. He seems like a fine person and a good locker room guy, but on a contending team, he belongs on the second unit, unless a starter is unavailable. 

I am not that harsh on Powell. I think he could be a good number 5 guy, if we would have good number 3 and number 4. But we don't and so he is exposed more and looks bad. Like Zubac - he is absolutely nothing special on either side of the floor, but looks good because defense needs to focus full time on the other four starters.

[ItsGoTime]

But I do think we all figured KP would be a little better.

There were some that thought he would be better to start the season (isn't this still within the start of the season range?), others that thought there was a possibility that he could do better at the start of the season, but the majority of people believed it would take some time to knock the rust off and around Jan start to show what we would have with him. That's also to say, START to show, not show. It took PGeorge and GHayward a year to get "it" back. I will say he has mainly looked like what he was in NY, just with less of a focus on offense. What has improved IMO is his defense and rebounding from his NY days. If his best is yet to come, which I think it most definitely is (he's not even in his prime yet), he'll be a monster on O and D.

[omahen]

With respect to KP, we fans probably figured he would be better

I think offensively we thought he would be better. On the other hand, at least I didn't expect he is so good defensively. He also hustles and provides energy. Everyone would benefit so much if Mavs had another legit offensive weapon instead of DFS. Defense can focus on KP a lot, knowing there is very limited damage coming from at least two starters.

[Kkswoosh]

Powell and KP killed us against the Clippers. No rebounding and no heart. Need someone that takes easy baskets personally and actually puts in the effort to clean up the glass

[mavsluvr]

Bruisers have a history of not being especially effective in Carlisle's systems. But I agree that, at a minimum, they need a full-size center who can also move around well. I would not be opposed to keeping Powell around, but ideally, he would come off the bench, where he actually might provide an impactful punch.

I feel like you haven't met RC's Det or Indiana teams. Our championship team had a bruiser or two (I would call Butler, Stevenson and Kidd bruisers) and some tough nosed guys (JJB and TC) on it too. Just need a few guys that will be able to punch back when it comes to that. Luka is great with absorbing the damage, but he doesn't have the mindset that he could have to do this a bit too. I really think Favors and Crowder would be the perfect fit with these guys. In the sense that they're probably pretty gettable and fill the need we have. I think Adams is out of our price range of tradable assets (at least it seems that OKC is content with his contract), unless THJ makes his contract a non-issue.

A fair point, although the game has changed a lot since then, and the importance of bruisers has diminished throughout the league. You are referencing former Mavs with a defensive mentality, except maybe Barea, which isn't really all I meant by a bruiser. I am talking about a guy who is really huge, and really strong, and is able and willing to outmuscle any big man they run at him. Of course, in the modern NBA, he also has to have skills, and it remains to be seen whether they can secure a guy like that, assuming that they even want to. 

I think you are right that they also need more size and strength on the wings, which might be an even higher priority than a big man, given the plethora of excellent wings around the league, as compared to centers. One of Cuban's traditional methods of getting "value" players is to load up on undersized guys. That will probably work to get them to the playoffs, but at the higher levels, it's a real disadvantage not to have some players with size and power to throw at the other team. Luka being a large PG has been a big plus. 

The Mavs elected not to bring Crowder back because they thought he was too expensive for the value he brought in their system, but it's possible that has changed. I haven't followed him closely, but I understand he has developed a three-point shot, which would be very helpful. Of course, it would be ideal to upgrade to another star in that position. They will have money to spend, but as we know all too well, that doesn't always translate into elite players.

[Kkswoosh]

It’s Adams it bust inside for me. You need a bruiser who isn’t scared to enforce the paint and clean up the glass. I’d be willing to give up Brunson, Hardaway, and a draft pick to add Adams to the Mavs. Adams changes everything for this team