GAME 3: DAL (1-2) @ NOP (3-1) | 111-113 loss

[KillerLeft]

If Hardy or Pinson start getting minutes, we can pretty much assume Green is on his way out

I'd bet quite a bit of money that Hardy will see some burn tonight, with those players (on both teams) out. 

I don't know that I agree it will signal an impending departure for Green. It could just be that Kidd doesn't want to deviate too much from the 9-man rotation they've started with. In other words, he might want Green to play Green minutes.

[Hypermav]

https://twitter.com/TheSteinLine/status/1584939272913944576?s=20&t=GgyDSzy-YYqfwTiF9zLMpA

Be ready Mavs

[Winter]

I forgot... the Little Pizza makes his debut tonight.

There's where some of Hardaway's minutes go I'm guessing.

[DanSchwartzgan]

Some things I’m looking for tonight.

Dallas is ‘protecting’ Wood in terms of his minutes as a solo big and in terms of who he covers when he’s on with Maxi.  Obviously it is working.  The solo big minutes are very limited.  It has just been essentially a couple minutes here and there as Dallas brings subs in and out.  It is essentially the two minutes or so between when Wood comes in for McGee and Maxi enters and something similar on the back end (Maxi tends to leave first so he can re-enter to finish halves).  Maxi tends to take the more difficult cover giving Wood the opportunity to be a weak side helper (his better role).  The way NO uses Valanciunis, there is a chance he may be in during some of the stints where Wood is typically the solo big.  Does Dallas try to adjust or do they see what Wood looks like covering a larger big who has some offensive ability.  

Item number two also involves Wood.  He’s not going to continue to score a point a minute and I doubt he continues to put up 20 shots per 36.  His career average is 15.  What I care more about is efficiency.  He’s at .666 in TS% vs. his career average of .608.  Luka tends to lift TS% and Wood’s best year was .659 (his last year in Detroit with Sweeney).  I’d love to see something in the .630-.640 range hold once we get a few more games under our belts.

Next, who will sub in for SD when Wood comes in at the 6:00 mark for McGee.  Logic would say Josh as he’s been playing with the bench.  Then, you have to wonder who comes in about four minutes later (the point where Josh usually comes in).  Dorsey?  That is probably where I’d go (or course, if you want to replicate Hardaway’s aggressive inefficiency, there is another alternative).  It would be nice for Josh to actually get to touch a basketball tonight.  He plays largely with Wood and Hardaway who between them are jacking up a shot a minute.  That’s not to mention that one of Luka or Dinwiddie is also in the game (SD is actually getting up more shots per minute than Tim…it just feels like Tim is shooting more because so few go in).  Maxi’s attempts are down 33% vs. his career and Green has gone from over 8 attempts per 36 to 1.1.  Yep, he’s just too timid to play in the NBA.

The narrative around this kid has just gotten ridiculous.  The bench has three guys who all “want theirs” and can go for 20 on any given night.  The opportunities for Green have been very few.  Dallas is missing a real opportunity here as Josh has the highest EFG% in the history of the league at 112.5%.  (OK, I didn’t actually look up the history of the league, but you gotta love that kind of efficiency  ).  His lack of attempts and stellar D are working.  He has the highest On minus Off of the regulars (never mind that lying PER stat that says Luka and Wood are first team All NBA…it is a flawed stat).

Last thing.  Dallas has the highest net rating by a mile (not tongue in cheek here, Net Rating is actually a very good predictor of playoff success).  SRS (which takes into account strength of schedule) is also #1.  Obviously a 40 point win in a two game sample will help, but given some of the overreactions I see around here, I think I’m justified in saying Dallas is the best team in the league (until proven otherwise).

[Mapka]

Some things I’m looking for tonight.

Dallas is ‘protecting’ Wood in terms of his minutes as a solo big and in terms of who he covers when he’s on with Maxi.  Obviously it is working.  The solo big minutes are very limited.  It has just been essentially a couple minutes here and there as Dallas brings subs in and out.  It is essentially the two minutes or so between when Wood comes in for McGee and Maxi enters and something similar on the back end (Maxi tends to leave first so he can re-enter to finish halves).  Maxi tends to take the more difficult cover giving Wood the opportunity to be a weak side helper (his better role).  The way NO uses Valanciunis, there is a chance he may be in during some of the stints where Wood is typically the solo big.  Does Dallas try to adjust or do they see what Wood looks like covering a larger big who has some offensive ability.  

Item number two also involves Wood.  He’s not going to continue to score a point a minute and I doubt he continues to put up 20 shots per 36.  His career average is 15.  What I care more about is efficiency.  He’s at .666 in TS% vs. his career average of .608.  Luka tends to lift TS% and Wood’s best year was .659 (his last year in Detroit with Sweeney).  I’d love to see something in the .630-.640 range hold once we get a few more games under our belts.

Next, who will sub in for SD when Wood comes in at the 6:00 mark for McGee.  Logic would say Josh as he’s been playing with the bench.  Then, you have to wonder who comes in about four minutes later (the point where Josh usually comes in).  Dorsey?  That is probably where I’d go (or course, if you want to replicate Hardaway’s aggressive inefficiency, there is another alternative).  It would be nice for Josh to actually get to touch a basketball tonight.  He plays largely with Wood and Hardaway who between them are jacking up a shot a minute.  That’s not to mention that one of Luka or Dinwiddie is also in the game (SD is actually getting up more shots per minute than Tim…it just feels like Tim is shooting more because so few go in).  Maxi’s attempts are down 33% vs. his career and Green has gone from over 8 attempts per 36 to 1.1.  Yep, he’s just too timid to play in the NBA.

The narrative around this kid has just gotten ridiculous.  The bench has three guys who all “want theirs” and can go for 20 on any given night.  The opportunities for Green have been very few.  Dallas is missing a real opportunity here as Josh has the highest EFG% in the history of the league at 112.5%.  (OK, I didn’t actually look up the history of the league, but you gotta love that kind of efficiency  ).  His lack of attempts and stellar D are working.  He has the highest On minus Off of the regulars (never mind that lying PER stat that says Luka and Wood are first team All NBA…it is a flawed stat).

Last thing.  Dallas has the highest net rating by a mile (not tongue in cheek here, Net Rating is actually a very good predictor of playoff success).  SRS (which takes into account strength of schedule) is also #1.  Obviously a 40 point win in a two game sample will help, but given some of the overreactions I see around here, I think I’m justified in saying Dallas is the best team in the league (until proven otherwise).

I think our top 8 or 9 is great. Everybody else is a fit and useful. We just are thin at playmaking guards. That's not good to withstand the grind.
But having competent bigs helps to keep DFS and Maxis minutes in check.

I like Greens cuts to the basket. They make the other teams defense move. He just hasn't figured out what to do then.

[DanSchwartzgan]

I think our top 8 or 9 is great. Everybody else is a fit and useful. We just are thin at playmaking guards. That's not good to withstand the grind.
But having competent bigs helps to keep DFS and Maxis minutes in check.

I like Greens cuts to the basket. They make the other teams defense move. He just hasn't figured out what to do then.

If you watch closely, they have called his number a few times on lobs, so they are trying to get him involved. The PG hasn’t thrown the pass the times I’ve noticed the play call, so it hasn’t happened.  That three he hit against Memphis was quick and clean.

I wish he’d have pulled the trigger on that turnover as much as anyone.  The angle wasn’t ideal and unfortunately, he went to what appears to be his comfortable place and THJ wasn’t open.  It was a bad look at a point in time when momentum was slipping.  I’ve seen Maxi and DFS make similar decisions, but they weren’t the 18th pick and are held to a different standard.  

I watch Green pretty closely and I haven’t seen too much else I’d criticize.  The team is absolutely killing it when he’s in the game.  I get that he has little to do with that, but it is kind of fun to see the bench shine and project what that might mean over a full season.  Personally, I’m just not interested in spending time looking for clouds on sunny days.  I’ll probably hold my overreactions until about 20 games in.

[mvossman]

If you watch closely, they have called his number a few times on lobs, so they are trying to get him involved. The PG hasn’t thrown the pass the times I’ve noticed the play call, so it hasn’t happened.  That three he hit against Memphis was quick and clean.

I wish he’d have pulled the trigger on that turnover as much as anyone.  The angle wasn’t ideal and unfortunately, he went to what appears to be his comfortable place and THJ wasn’t open.  It was a bad look at a point in time when momentum was slipping.  I’ve seen Maxi and DFS make similar decisions, but they weren’t the 18th pick and are held to a different standard.  

I watch Green pretty closely and I haven’t seen too much else I’d criticize.  The team is absolutely killing it when he’s in the game.  I get that he has little to do with that, but it is kind of fun to see the bench shine and project what that might mean over a full season.  Personally, I’m just not interested in spending time looking for clouds on sunny days.  I’ll probably hold my overreactions until about 20 games in.

I actually think he is contributing to that success, its just all on the defensive end.  It will be interesting to see what he does with potentially more opportunities with Timmy out.

[SleepingHero]

It would be nice for Josh to actually get to touch a basketball tonight.  He plays largely with Wood and Hardaway who between them are jacking up a shot a minute.  That’s not to mention that one of Luka or Dinwiddie is also in the game (SD is actually getting up more shots per minute than Tim…it just feels like Tim is shooting more because so few go in).  Maxi’s attempts are down 33% vs. his career and Green has gone from over 8 attempts per 36 to 1.1.  Yep, he’s just too timid to play in the NBA.

This is a fair point and one I overlooked. Kudos.

[sefant]

I actually think he is contributing to that success, its just all on the defensive end.  It will be interesting to see what he does with potentially more opportunities with Timmy out.

I mean yes. Anyway its way too early in general, but the offense with Green is about 12 pts better than with Luka. People acting he is Ben Simmons and totally hurting the spacing or team offense. So far thats not remotely the case. He was being fully guarded at the 3pt line. I would nearly bet the Mavs might beat the Suns, if Kidd would have tried to use Green in the 4th to stop the Booker PnR. Green/Kleber combo also busted up the Utah PnR's in the 4th in the last preseason game.

Would be worried, if he can't hit enough 3's or him passing up open shots at the perimeter. We will see if Wood getting doubled more in the future and if Green getting more open 3's as a result. But so far so good. And his form looking way better this year than last year. The other dude on the 77 min Cato podcast, also did notice that Green looks even better on defense compared to last season. Tho i am not the only one noticing that.

Green simply does all the things well, that never show up in any boxscore, despite being young. Patrick Williams (Bulls) is -36 on the season, Wiseman is -35, Kuminga -29. Its certainly not the norm that young players on playoff teams contribute to winning right away. And some players never learn it.

THJ is shooting near Westbrook like numbers (28.9 vs 30 % FG), and yet the bench is on a way hotter start than last year.

I am also not sure what people exactly want Green to do the way he is being used so far in the 2 games. People legit want Green to do stuff THJ does, that people hate. Take away more shots from SD/Wood outside the flow of the game. The goal remains to win the basketball game.



Those are numbers while playing the most with Wood and THJ. And Mavs media talked about Wood & defense the entire offseason

[dynamicalVoid]

Josh played with Hardaway in garbage time...but Tim "le' me get mine" Hardaway wouldnt pass the ball or let anyone else shoot.  Those precious development minutes need to be for the youngsters...not THGOAWAY.

Its not that hard of a concept to wrap thought around.  Green has warts he may never overcome...but we dont know if selfish vets are stunting his possible growth.  Everyone knows what THJ is...there is no increasing his value around the league.  Burke was selfish too.  The Mavs need to take the green card to shoot away from THJ or leave him on the bench.

[Winter]

I am also not sure what people exactly want Green to do the way he is being used so far in the 2 games.

What most people want is a mid first-round pick in their third season. Instead Green is no different really than a good player coming from G league. I'd rather see what Tyler Dorsey has or see how Hardy handles rookie minutes than see Green on the court. I've seen Green for 2+ years and I don't see much that distinguishes him.

Much of the Green discussion is relative to expectations (and contract). As a rotation player, he is perfectly serviceable for a few minutes every game. This does not mean that Green is particularly meaningful to this roster going forward. Other NBA players can do what Green does.

[mvossman]

Josh played with Hardaway in garbage time...but Tim "le' me get mine" Hardaway wouldnt pass the ball or let anyone else shoot.  Those precious development minutes need to be for the youngsters...not THGOAWAY.

Its not that hard of a concept to wrap thought around.  Green has warts he may never overcome...but we dont know if selfish vets are stunting his possible growth.  Everyone knows what THJ is...there is no increasing his value around the league.  Burke was selfish too.  The Mavs need to take the green card to shoot away from THJ or leave him on the bench.

You could call the last three quarters garbage time after Luka went Nuclear in the first.

This bit is getting old.

[dynamicalVoid]

You could call the last three quarters garbage time after Luka went Nuclear in the first.

This bit is getting old.

This is going to be common until Mavs take action.  

Buckle in.  It'll be fine.

[mvossman]

What most people want is a mid first-round pick in their third season. Instead Green is no different really than a good player coming from G league. I'd rather see what Tyler Dorsey has or see how Hardy handles rookie minutes than see Green on the court. I've seen Green for 2+ years and I don't see much that distinguishes him.

Much of the Green discussion is relative to expectations (and contract). As a rotation player, he is perfectly serviceable for a few minutes every game. This does not mean that Green is particularly meaningful to this roster going forward. Other NBA players can do what Green does.

This seems like a viewpoint of someone who completely ignores defense.  I have some interest in seeing Hardy and Dorsey (and hopefully there will be opportunity tonight) but during meaningful minutes I would much rather have Green on the court, especially with a second unit that is not lacking in offense.

---

This is going to be common until Mavs take action.  

Buckle in.  It'll be fine.

The Mavs don't listen to you or this board, so all you are accomplishing is ass whipping the rest of us.

[MarkAguirreWrathofGod]

Came here to say the same thing Sefant and Dan and Mvossman just did: Josh Green is already a plus defender. I actually think he has All NBA Defense potential—say, 3-4 years from now—when he will still be a few years away from his prime. He’s young! He’s not a finished product by any means. This team is desperate for athletes and he is one. His length, size, speed, vertical and lateral movement are excellent. He will get stronger. Offense is going to take time, but we don’t need him to be amazing on that end right away.

[Winter]

This seems like a viewpoint of someone who completely ignores defense.  I have some interest in seeing Hardy and Dorsey (and hopefully there will be opportunity tonight) but during meaningful minutes I would much rather have Green on the court, especially with a second unit that is not lacking in offense.

No, I like his defense fine. I just think people are over-stating his defensive significance if he can't stay on the court more than 18 minutes. How good are you on defense if you're not playing that much? It's not like he's a scary rim protector or shot blocker. It's not like his defensive skill set all that noteworthy at the three-point line. Again, it's relative. He's OK in the rotation, but let's not act like he was a good first-round pick.

This is a game where players have to play offense and defense. Josh Green has to be better offensively. There's no need to talk about his good defense if he's deficient in other parts of the game.

[dynamicalVoid]

Makes you wonder about why Thybulle has supposedly been tradeable for over a year now.  A highly regarded defender...but all defense and no offense.  How come that team doenst want a player like that?

[KillerLeft]

No, I like his defense fine. I just think people are over-stating his defensive significance if he can't stay on the court more than 18 minutes. How good are you on defense if you're not playing that much? Again, it's relative. He's OK in the rotation, but let's not act like he was a good first-round pick.

This is a game where players have to play offense and defense. Josh Green has to be better offensively. There's no need to talk about his good defense if he's deficient in other parts of the game.

Without declaring outright support for your take on Green, specifically, I'd like to give a huge pat on the back for the general logic of this point. It's so true, and seems to be easy for fans to cast aside when they're analyzing the roster.

[Kammrath]

https://twitter.com/MavsPR/status/1585041989753790464

[dirkfansince1998]

My fellow McGee fans. Anyone willing to explain what I am watching right now? Makes Powell look like a DPOY contender.