Coaching and Carlisle - Mavs X and O

[Kammrath]

Rick "I Never Save a Timeout for When I Really Need One" Carlisle

[train0038]

Kendrick Perkins was right...

[SwisherPrice]

It's lazy coaching but what else do you expect. RC isn't built for today's offensive-powered NBA so he thinks all you have to do is launch up threes whenever and wherever you want. Nellie would actually be better for today's NBA

[Fuerza1]

https://twitter.com/KevinOConnorNBA/stat...4270047232

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https://twitter.com/NateSilver538/status...5572491267

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https://twitter.com/SportsSturm/status/1...9052643328

[DrMav]

Luka scores 15 points in the last 3:33 of the 3rd quarter, then sat out until 5:53 of the 4th quarter.

I usually give RC the benefit of the doubt, but in what world can a coach not adapt his normal substitution pattern for a player who is exploding? He’s 20 years old, on 2 days rest, and healthy, let him play!


No one scored for over 2 minutes in the 4th quarter, in that amount of time Luka may have given us a decent lead to hold onto.

[SportPsychMav]

If you watch the games it is obvious that the gameplan is just wrong.

I do not see bad players out there. We weren't less talented a single game this year.

Last year Luka took 3s just fine. This year he takes these early shot clock contested pull up 3s. Not only him, every Mavs player does it.

These are shots with a high variance. They do not consistently win you games.
Their percentage seems ok on a huge sample size but it results in super streaky games.

Learn statistics please.

Furthermore when you watch the games they look bad.


Dallas is a great spot-up shooting team, our 3pt % on these isn't bad at all.

We are GREAT in the paint and in drawing fouls.

We are defensively soft as it seems the plan is to avoid fouling, especially hard fouls at all cost.

[toby451]

Luka scores 15 points in the last 3:33 of the 3rd quarter, then sat out until 5:53 of the 4th quarter.

I usually give RC the benefit of the doubt, but in what world can a coach not adapt his normal substitution pattern for a player who is exploding? He’s 20 years old, on 2 days rest, and healthy, let him play!


No one scored for over 2 minutes in the 4th quarter, in that amount of time Luka may have given us a decent lead to hold onto.

For the love of god yes. He should have come in at the 8 minute mark at the LATEST. The team was absolutely pathetic without Luka and he just left them out there to die. Even when Luka came back in, they didn't even run the offense through him for another 1-2 possessions. Absolutely terrible.


Also, Pick a starting lineup and stick with it. Changing the lineup every night is hurting everyone and throwing games. Let people find a role and fucking get comfortable with it and start to build chemistry with the guys they know they are going to be playing with. Yo Yoing people in and out of the lineup is killing the chemistry. I believe Matrix was complaining about this same thing years ago when he was here...

[SportPsychMav]

pull up 3s, that includes the open ones! The numbers support my arguments. 

It is likely by design and it just stupid.

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38.9% Catch and Shoot 3s 24.5 shots per game

27% Pull Up 3s 11.5 shots per game.

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Luka is 163rd in 4th quarter minutes at 6.8. (Not sure if NBA Stats includes this game yet.)
Other notables:
Kawhi 10
Harden 9.1
Lillard 9.8
Giannis 9.5
Trae 8.9
Kemba 8.1
Kyrie 8.1
Westbrook 7.7
LeBron 7.2

https://www.reddit.com/r/Mavericks/comme...tes_at_68/

[SportPsychMav]

This is NOT a fire Carlisle thread.

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https://youtu.be/27ZAsmv98KQ



He seems empty and exhausted for whatever reason. I hope he'll get better.

[fifteenth]

If you watch the games it is obvious that the gameplan is just wrong.

it's not obvious to everyone

I don't think it's a "game plan" issue, I think it's a "work in progress" issue

[SportPsychMav]

If you watch the games it is obvious that the gameplan is just wrong.

it's not obvious to everyone

I don't think it's a "game plan" issue, I think it's a "work in progress" issue

Everything can be deemed a "work in progress" issue. That's an empty message.

[fifteenth]

Everything can be deemed a "work in progress" issue. That's an empty message.

Not at all. Three years ago the roster was old. Not much "work in progress" there. Two years ago the roster stunk. Not much room for work to progress there. 

Last year I suggested patience was needed so that the established players could figure out how to play together and so that DSJ and Luka could figure out how to play together. From a third to half way through the season it became clear that established vets were playing for themselves, DSJ was unhappy, the team was going to struggle without JJB, and that HB was going to disappear in big games. We'd had time to see how the thing was going to come together, and we saw that it didn't come together.

This year the team is both new and young. Patience is needed. If the roster hasn't come together and exhibited growth in a couple of months then there will be more reason to worry. A situation where a new and young team is learning new things and how to do them with new people is exactly the time to say "work in progress". 

[SportPsychMav]

Everything can be deemed a "work in progress" issue. That's an empty message.

Not at all. Three years ago the roster was old. Not much "work in progress" there. Two years ago the roster stunk. Not much room for work to progress there. 

Last year I suggested patience was needed so that the established players could figure out how to play together and so that DSJ and Luka could figure out how to play together. From a third to half way through the season it became clear that established vets were playing for themselves, DSJ was unhappy, the team was going to struggle without JJB, and that HB was going to disappear in big games. We'd had time to see how the thing was going to come together, and we saw that it didn't come together.

This year the team is both new and young. Patience is needed. If the roster hasn't come together and exhibited growth in a couple of months then there will be more reason to worry. A situation where a new and young team is learning new things and how to do them with new people is exactly the time to say "work in progress". 

Hey fifteenth, I agree with most what you just wrote. That still doesn't make everything happening right now a work in progress in the sense you are describing.

It's obvious that they still have a lot to figure out, most aren't in denial of that. I've brought up many points that fall under that category before.

Still we can point out what works well right now and what isn't and what the likely reasons are. 

We can state the good and the bad things without hate. And not every flaw pointed out needs to be cushioned by you. You are even against reasonable and thoughtful takes a lot of the time, which annoys me because I think you can easily do better.

You said it took a 3rd of the season for you to see the vets selfish play, some people can see things earlier than that.


Most issues this team has are fixable with the right adjustments.

[fifteenth]

Still we can point out what works well right now and what isn't and what the likely reasons are. 

Of course you can. You can bring up whatever you want. If you don't want my thoughts about things you post then let me know and I'll refrain from giving you those thoughts. 

We can state the good and the bad things without hate.

Again, of course you can. If I disagree with something that doesn't mean that I'm telling you to stop. Go for it. And I've never accused you of hating anyone or anything. 

And not every flaw pointed out needs to be cushioned by you.

I don't only point out the positives. I spent many of the "plan powder" years being called a "hater" around here. I see flaws with the current roster, and of course I see flaws with the current play. But it's my opinion that almost all of what I see being pinned to the coach at the moment is "work in progress stuff". Again, if you don't want my input, let me know, and I'll refrain from responding to your posts. Otherwise, I'm probably going to post what I think. 

You are even against reasonable and thoughtful takes a lot of the time,

Give me a specific and I'll tell you what I think. Though, I may have already addressed it in my post to SleepingHero. And also, two reasonable thoughts can disagree. 

which annoys me because I think you can easily do better

Not sure I can stop annoying you if you're just annoyed by what I am. You and I just may be a bad match. No big deal. While I agree that I can do better, and I'm open to you showing me how, this post isn't really inspiring me to change. 

You said it took a 3rd of the season for you to see the vets selfish play, some people can see things earlier than that.

If giving a team time to correct itself is a flaw then it's a flaw that I'm going to keep. In American football each game is a of immense importance regarding the standings because there are only 16 games. Basketball cannot be judged in that way. Basketball is best judged a handful of games at a time. The recent handful of games shows that the Mavs are struggling. You and I disagree on the cause of the struggles. 

Look SPM, I actually appreciate your attempt at offering input into my life, or at least my posting habits. I really am open to input from folks in my life. But in this instance, I'm not seeing it. If I'm a problem for the forum then bring it up to folks like SleepingHero, Clutch, Kam, mavsluvr...maybe they can talk some sense into me.

[matt6715]

I give RC a lot of leeway, but Luka only averaging 6 4th-quarter minutes per game is mind boggling.

[ballsrchr]

I can't remember who it was but a few years ago there was a player that mentioned something about Carlisle jerking the players around like rag dolls...referring to the lineups and tinkering.  All I know for sure is that I don't like the lineups...or the jerking around. The team forgot to ask me though.  It also sometimes looks like Carlisle can be a bit petty.  Too bad we are not in the inner circle...

[mavsluvr]

I can't remember who it was but a few years ago there was a player that mentioned something about Carlisle jerking the players around like rag dolls...referring to the lineups and tinkering.  All I know for sure is that I don't like the lineups...or the jerking around. The team forgot to ask me though.  It also sometimes looks like Carlisle can be a bit petty.  Too bad we are not in the inner circle...

That was Shawn Marion, who subsequently expressed regret about making the remark.

Considering the circumstances, I think it's okay that the team doesn't have a fixed rotation at this point. Agree that tinkering is in Carlisle's DNA, and that it would indeed be fun to be a fly on the wall!

[fifteenth]

That was Shawn Marion, who subsequently expressed regret about making the remark.

Considering the circumstances, I think it's okay that the team doesn't have a fixed rotation at this point. Agree that tinkering is in Carlisle's DNA, and that it would indeed be fun to be a fly on the wall!

He said at the end of the 2009/2010 season while the Mavs were trying to figure out how to integrate the team with it's new players. I went ballistic after the loss to the Spurs in the playoffs and said that it was time for the team to start over with Dirk and Roddy B, sell all vests via trade, and begin a youth movement. Sure am glad I wasn't the GM!!!!!

[bartlettbear]

The roster is not that new the Mavs have 8 out of 11 guys that have played in this system before and KP as been here since FEb learning this system, the Mavs have added two knew pieces in Wright and Boban.

Powellm Maxi, DFS, they are Vets now, Curry is a vet, Hardaway is a vet.

[fifteenth]

The roster is not that new

This mix of players hasn't played together before. Curry hasn't played with Luka or KP. Luka and KP haven't played together. No one has played with the combo of Luka and KP. Powell, Maxi, DFS, Curry and THJ are vets, but they're certainly not older, established vets, and none of them have played with this mix of players. Maxi came to the NBA older than a typical rookie. He's still young as far as NBA experience goes. Powell, DFS and Curry were all players who sat at the end of benches. Curry spent time in the G-League. None of them are very experienced considering their NBA experience. The obvious team leader, Luka, is 20 years old and in his second NBA season, yet he's leading a team. The second star is coming off almost a two year layoff and is in a completely different situation. This is a new team.