Fire Carlisle

[Fuerza1]

I would fire Carlisle at season's end if this team severely underperforms. So like 35 wins or less? Yeah, I think that'd be justifiable but won't likely happen. We should be better than that plus not sure if MBT have the balls to sack him. 

But I really do believe this needs to be a legit playoff team by year 2, no excuses. This year is testing the waters on several new pieces, figuring out what works or not, etc. The West is still absolutely stacked so no shame if they fall short of a postseason birth this season. Next year, no excuses. 

Obviously a lot of other factors could be in play such as if Carlisle is disliked by players, wins/losses, etc. But it's definitely put or shut up time for Slick Rick. Make the Mavs Great Again or promote Stephen "The Snake" Silas as head coach.

[ItsGoTime]

I'm trying to think why the talent put on the team ever since the Championship is RC's fault. He's made as much lemonade out of lemons as one could make (I'd say with the exception of last year, on paper, that team should have been in the playoff hunt at least, until the trade). The talent he is given to do the impossible is where the problem exists.

[Mak]

Extend Carlisle

[Mak]

Even from the most extreme, pessimistic perspective — I can’t wrap my mind around how someone reaches the conclusion that Carlisle is anything but a Top 5 coach. IMO he’s closer to top 1-2 but at least top 5. At absolutely worst, Top 10. No where near Fire-worthy.

[Kammrath]

Even from the most extreme, pessimistic perspective — I can’t wrap my mind around how someone reaches the conclusion that Carlisle is anything but a Top 5 coach. IMO he’s closer to top 1-2 but at least top 5. At absolutely worst, Top 10. No where near Fire-worthy.

So here's the thing:

1) The NBA is a quickly evolving world that is about "what have you done for me lately?"
2) The NBA is driven by talented stars whose contracts run out deceivingly quick. 
3) Hence, if RC doesn't win quickly with Luka/KP and build very strong relationships of trust with them, then he WILL be on the "hot seat." Cuban wouldn't have a choice really. As loyal as Cuban WANTS to be to RC, Luka/KP will take priority if Cuban is smart. It is just how the NBA works.

None of that is saying RC isn't a good or even top tier coach, it just means that it is a results oriented business where talented stars are the priority.

[ItsGoTime]

Even from the most extreme, pessimistic perspective — I can’t wrap my mind around how someone reaches the conclusion that Carlisle is anything but a Top 5 coach. IMO he’s closer to top 1-2 but at least top 5. At absolutely worst, Top 10. No where near Fire-worthy.

So here's the thing:

1) The NBA is a quickly evolving world that is about "what have you done for me lately?"
2) The NBA is driven by talented stars whose contracts run out deceivingly quick. 
3) Hence, if RC doesn't win quickly with Luka/KP and build very strong relationships of trust with them, then he WILL be on the "hot seat." Cuban wouldn't have a choice really. As loyal as Cuban WANTS to be to RC, Luka/KP will take priority if Cuban is smart. It is just how the NBA works.

None of that is saying RC isn't a good or even top tier coach, it just means that it is a results oriented business where talented stars are the priority.

Not positive you are aware at how loyal Mark is to the guys he likes (looks at Donnie).

[Kammrath]

Not positive you are aware at how loyal Mark is to the guys he likes (looks at Donnie).

I am EXTREMELY aware, hence my line "if he is smart."

My point is that RC is NOT above questioning in the next two years. The Mavs need to show significant progress while also earning the trust of Luka/KP. 

Keeping stars is what matters in this league. Even Popovich without Duncan is pretty helpless.

[BigDirk41]

Is everyone still in love with Rick and his midget ball lineups?

[Scott41theMavs]

In the unlikely event that the Mavs don't make the playoffs, a change needs to be made. Otherwise, he gets at least another half-year.

[Lucky Luciano]

We're dealing with lots of injuries to our top 3 most important players and still have a good record. We won't miss the playoffs and are more likely to end up between 4th and 6th seed. As long as we don't play an LA team I can see us having a great shot at getting past the first round of the playoffs as well.

However it was a frustrating game to watch tonight. Oddly for the first time I was upset with KP. Felt like he was just watching people make layups right in his face. I think Bog took him to the rack 4 times 1v1 and none of them did he really try hard to challenge the shot. There was a bunch of others he could have at least contested and we would have been in a completely different position to win this game. He was solid on offense but just didn't seem to have any interest in protecting the rim tonight. Tough to watch a guy 7'3 with long ass arms and a great vert not contest more at the basket. I said all that to say I sure hope RC was yelling at him to play some damn defense.

[mtrot]

We're dealing with lots of injuries to our top 3 most important players and still have a good record. We won't miss the playoffs and are more likely to end up between 4th and 6th seed. As long as we don't play an LA team I can see us having a great shot at getting past the first round of the playoffs as well.

However it was a frustrating game to watch tonight. Oddly for the first time I was upset with KP. Felt like he was just watching people make layups right in his face. I think Bog took him to the rack 4 times 1v1 and none of them did he really try hard to challenge the shot. There was a bunch of others he could have at least contested and we would have been in a completely different position to win this game. He was solid on offense but just didn't seem to have any interest in protecting the rim tonight. Tough to watch a guy 7'3 with long ass arms and a great vert not contest more at the basket. I said all that to say I sure hope RC was yelling at him to play some damn defense.

Seriously?  These Mavs are going to be lucky to make the playoffs.  

Also, I think you're seriously overestimating Rick's interest in having KP play hard defense around the rim.  Layups don't seem to phase Rick nearly as much as three pointers, as he always seems to call a time out after a made three pointer. I think the more likely scenario would be Rick yelling at KP if he DID play hard defense and picked up a foul.  I think it is Rick's mentality that is leading to these continuing layup drills that so many teams run on the Mavs.  I've been saying it for years now that I don't think Rick has the stomach for hard nosed basketball.

[MrGoat]

Is everyone still in love with Rick and his midget ball lineups?

At least let Luka get back from injury before making too much of a judgement. And this is coming from someone whose patience with Rick has eroded over the last couple of seasons

[ItsGoTime]

If they actually do fire Rick, I think Donnie should coach the team he put together.

[iolide]

We can Fire Carlisle and get Ty Lue to come coach this team. He has a proven track record and has been to multiple finals, has had amazing players; he's a winner and one of the best coaches in the past 10 years. I think he would take this team further than Carlisle and our historic offense.

[aguiar95]

I'm not sure how RC or any other coach can make this team go further. Right now, I have us at 13th (With Luka) in talent compared to other teams. Middle of the pack. Imagine if we got one or two good players with our 30M in the summer and resigned everybody (KP/Kleber/DFS). Curry got the over the cap MLE and WCS was traded for the UTA 2nd so it wouldn't change much. Lee's 12M and the TPE are now gone. If we want to add major talent it's only via trade (nobody will take our MLE), with no salary match for the big ones. Jackson/Wright/2 1st rounders/Various 2nd rounders are our "assets". Not sure how the S&T works (in terms of salary matching), but it seems to be a solution.

Doncic/THJ/X/KP/X
Brunson/Curry/DFS/Kleber/Powell (WCS)

[dirkfansince1998]

We can Fire Carlisle and get Ty Lue to come coach this team. He has a proven track record and has been to multiple finals, has had amazing players; he's a winner and one of the best coaches in the past 10 years. I think he would take this team further than Carlisle and our historic offense.

Proven track record? He coached one team that had 3 allstars. One of them a top 3 player of alltime. He barely coached at all. LeBron made sure that the guy that was coaching was fired (D.Blatt). After LeBron leaves the Cavs fire Lue because the team starts the season 0-6. Lue hasn´t won a single game without LeBron on the roster.

I know a coach with a proven track record.
He build the dominant early 2000s Pistons team that would go on to win a championship in the following years. Winning COY in his 1st season as a headcoach. After he was released by the Pistons he was signed by the Pacers and continued to have great success. 60 win season and ECF in 2004. The roster in Indiana was declining but he lead them to two more playoff appearances. Indiana moves on from the coach and starts the rebuild.
The mentioned coach takes a TV job but  only one season later he is signed by another team. They have success and in his first 3 years they win 50+ games. Finally winning the championship in his 3rd year.
With an aging and declining team he makes the playoffs three more times. This time he isn´t fired when the rebuild begins. Leading to 3 seasons with a losing record.
In year 4 of the rebuild the talent level  is improving and the team is on pace to make the playoffs.

Really hope the Mavs can sign that guy.

[mtrot]

We can Fire Carlisle and get Ty Lue to come coach this team. He has a proven track record and has been to multiple finals, has had amazing players; he's a winner and one of the best coaches in the past 10 years. I think he would take this team further than Carlisle and our historic offense.

Proven track record? He coached one team that had 3 allstars. One of them a top 3 player of alltime. He barely coached at all. LeBron made sure that the guy that was coaching was fired (D.Blatt). After LeBron leaves the Cavs fire Lue because the team starts the season 0-6. Lue hasn´t won a single game without LeBron on the roster.

I know a coach with a proven track record.
He build the dominant early 2000s Pistons team that would go on to win a championship in the following years. Winning COY in his 1st season as a headcoach. After he was released by the Pistons he was signed by the Pacers and continued to have great success. 60 win season and ECF in 2004. The roster in Indiana was declining but he lead them to two more playoff appearances. Indiana moves on from the coach and starts the rebuild.
The mentioned coach takes a TV job but  only one season later he is signed by another team. They have success and in his first 3 years they win 50+ games. Finally winning the championship in his 3rd year.
With an aging and declining team he makes the playoffs three more times. This time he isn´t fired when the rebuild begins. Leading to 3 seasons with a losing record.
In year 4 of the rebuild the talent level  is improving and the team is on pace to make the playoffs.

Really hope the Mavs can sign that guy.

Well, the Mavs have had a guy like that ever since the championship and it seems like the team's attention to the fundamentals keeps going down.  All too often, we see the Mavs get beaten around the rim because of small ball lineups.  We see the offense pound the ball and run the shot clock down too low which leads to bad shots.  We see opponents get way too many second chance shot opportunities because of not adequately blocking out.  We see a big like WCS doing great on the boards and scoring well for 5 minutes, and then get glued to the bench, for some inexplicable reason. We see too many opponent fast break opportunities resulting from long rebounds after we miss 32 foot three point attempts.  Then we see players like Wright passing up really good 24 foot three point attempts.  You have to know when to shoot and when not to shoot, and that has to be coached. We see too many missed FTs in games where a few points make the difference between winning or losing.  At some point, coaching has to come into question when these problems persist.

[ClutchDirk]

We can Fire Carlisle and get Ty Lue to come coach this team. He has a proven track record and has been to multiple finals, has had amazing players; he's a winner and one of the best coaches in the past 10 years. I think he would take this team further than Carlisle and our historic offense.

Proven track record? He coached one team that had 3 allstars. One of them a top 3 player of alltime. He barely coached at all. LeBron made sure that the guy that was coaching was fired (D.Blatt). After LeBron leaves the Cavs fire Lue because the team starts the season 0-6. Lue hasn´t won a single game without LeBron on the roster.

I know a coach with a proven track record.
He build the dominant early 2000s Pistons team that would go on to win a championship in the following years. Winning COY in his 1st season as a headcoach. After he was released by the Pistons he was signed by the Pacers and continued to have great success. 60 win season and ECF in 2004. The roster in Indiana was declining but he lead them to two more playoff appearances. Indiana moves on from the coach and starts the rebuild.
The mentioned coach takes a TV job but  only one season later he is signed by another team. They have success and in his first 3 years they win 50+ games. Finally winning the championship in his 3rd year.
With an aging and declining team he makes the playoffs three more times. This time he isn´t fired when the rebuild begins. Leading to 3 seasons with a losing record.
In year 4 of the rebuild the talent level  is improving and the team is on pace to make the playoffs.

Really hope the Mavs can sign that guy.

https://images.app.goo.gl/XmqQ4YCYkqXvXYSc8

[dirkfansince1998]

We can Fire Carlisle and get Ty Lue to come coach this team. He has a proven track record and has been to multiple finals, has had amazing players; he's a winner and one of the best coaches in the past 10 years. I think he would take this team further than Carlisle and our historic offense.

Proven track record? He coached one team that had 3 allstars. One of them a top 3 player of alltime. He barely coached at all. LeBron made sure that the guy that was coaching was fired (D.Blatt). After LeBron leaves the Cavs fire Lue because the team starts the season 0-6. Lue hasn´t won a single game without LeBron on the roster.

I know a coach with a proven track record.
He build the dominant early 2000s Pistons team that would go on to win a championship in the following years. Winning COY in his 1st season as a headcoach. After he was released by the Pistons he was signed by the Pacers and continued to have great success. 60 win season and ECF in 2004. The roster in Indiana was declining but he lead them to two more playoff appearances. Indiana moves on from the coach and starts the rebuild.
The mentioned coach takes a TV job but  only one season later he is signed by another team. They have success and in his first 3 years they win 50+ games. Finally winning the championship in his 3rd year.
With an aging and declining team he makes the playoffs three more times. This time he isn´t fired when the rebuild begins. Leading to 3 seasons with a losing record.
In year 4 of the rebuild the talent level  is improving and the team is on pace to make the playoffs.

Really hope the Mavs can sign that guy.

Well, the Mavs have had a guy like that ever since the championship and it seems like the team's attention to the fundamentals keeps going down.  All too often, we see the Mavs get beaten around the rim because of small ball lineups.  We see the offense pound the ball and run the shot clock down too low which leads to bad shots.  We see opponents get way too many second chance shot opportunities because of not adequately blocking out.  We see a big like WCS doing great on the boards and scoring well for 5 minutes, and then get glued to the bench, for some inexplicable reason. We see too many opponent fast break opportunities resulting from long rebounds after we miss 32 foot three point attempts.  Then we see players like Wright passing up really good 24 foot three point attempts.  You have to know when to shoot and when not to shoot, and that has to be coached. We see too many missed FTs in games where a few points make the difference between winning or losing.  At some point, coaching has to come into question when these problems persist.

And that´s something I don´t understand. First of all. The Mavs are on a 48 win pace right now. I don´t know what you expected but I think that´s really good for a team that missed the playoffs in the previous season.
Next...can we at least mention that the Mavs are struggling because of injuries. Luka missed 10 games and the Mavs are 5-5 without him. KP missed 13 games. Mavs are 9-4 without him. Powell is out for the season and the Mavs struggled without him (5-5).
I agree that some things aren´t perfect but the mentioned players are perfect examples of available talent vs expectations. Wright, Curry or Brunson are all capable NBA players but neither of them is a proven starter. Two career backup guards and a 2nd year player. If you watched Wright on the Raptors or Grizzlies you would know that he rarely takes 3s. Even when he is open. I don´t like it but I don´t think that RC is telling him not to take open 3s. Question is "Is there a better option available"?
Same for WCS. He looked good in a small sample size for the Mavs but I wonder why he was losing minutes in Sacramento or why the Warriors traded him for a late pick if he was as good as some people are saying.
RC has to work with the available talent and without Luka he tries to compensate the lack of shot creators with smaller lineups. That´s obviously not always working.

Last night was really bad and I am one of the biggest critics of Mosley and his defensive schemes (or lack of). Obviously RC is a part of this as well but overall the Mavs still have the best offense in the league. They are not only taking a lot of 3s (2nd in attempts). They also make a lot (6th in %).
All in all the Mavs are exceeding my expectations. There is a lot of room to improve but that´s to be expected. Bad clutch performance, lack of toughness...not unexpected for a young team that lacks experience.

[mtrot]

We can Fire Carlisle and get Ty Lue to come coach this team. He has a proven track record and has been to multiple finals, has had amazing players; he's a winner and one of the best coaches in the past 10 years. I think he would take this team further than Carlisle and our historic offense.

Proven track record? He coached one team that had 3 allstars. One of them a top 3 player of alltime. He barely coached at all. LeBron made sure that the guy that was coaching was fired (D.Blatt). After LeBron leaves the Cavs fire Lue because the team starts the season 0-6. Lue hasn´t won a single game without LeBron on the roster.

I know a coach with a proven track record.
He build the dominant early 2000s Pistons team that would go on to win a championship in the following years. Winning COY in his 1st season as a headcoach. After he was released by the Pistons he was signed by the Pacers and continued to have great success. 60 win season and ECF in 2004. The roster in Indiana was declining but he lead them to two more playoff appearances. Indiana moves on from the coach and starts the rebuild.
The mentioned coach takes a TV job but  only one season later he is signed by another team. They have success and in his first 3 years they win 50+ games. Finally winning the championship in his 3rd year.
With an aging and declining team he makes the playoffs three more times. This time he isn´t fired when the rebuild begins. Leading to 3 seasons with a losing record.
In year 4 of the rebuild the talent level  is improving and the team is on pace to make the playoffs.

Really hope the Mavs can sign that guy.

Well, the Mavs have had a guy like that ever since the championship and it seems like the team's attention to the fundamentals keeps going down.  All too often, we see the Mavs get beaten around the rim because of small ball lineups.  We see the offense pound the ball and run the shot clock down too low which leads to bad shots.  We see opponents get way too many second chance shot opportunities because of not adequately blocking out.  We see a big like WCS doing great on the boards and scoring well for 5 minutes, and then get glued to the bench, for some inexplicable reason. We see too many opponent fast break opportunities resulting from long rebounds after we miss 32 foot three point attempts.  Then we see players like Wright passing up really good 24 foot three point attempts.  You have to know when to shoot and when not to shoot, and that has to be coached. We see too many missed FTs in games where a few points make the difference between winning or losing.  At some point, coaching has to come into question when these problems persist.

And that´s something I don´t understand. First of all. The Mavs are on a 48 win pace right now. I don´t know what you expected but I think that´s really good for a team that missed the playoffs in the previous season.
Next...can we at least mention that the Mavs are struggling because of injuries. Luka missed 10 games and the Mavs are 5-5 without him. KP missed 13 games. Mavs are 9-4 without him. Powell is out for the season and the Mavs struggled without him (5-5).
I agree that some things aren´t perfect but the mentioned players are perfect examples of available talent vs expectations. Wright, Curry or Brunson are all capable NBA players but neither of them is a proven starter. Two career backup guards and a 2nd year player. If you watched Wright on the Raptors or Grizzlies you would know that he rarely takes 3s. Even when he is open. I don´t like it but I don´t think that RC is telling him not to take open 3s. Question is "Is there a better option available"?
Same for WCS. He looked good in a small sample size for the Mavs but I wonder why he was losing minutes in Sacramento or why the Warriors traded him for a late pick if he was as good as some people are saying.
RC has to work with the available talent and without Luka he tries to compensate the lack of shot creators with smaller lineups. That´s obviously not always working.

Last night was really bad and I am one of the biggest critics of Mosley and his defensive schemes (or lack of). Obviously RC is a part of this as well but overall the Mavs still have the best offense in the league. They are not only taking a lot of 3s (2nd in attempts). They also make a lot (6th in %).
All in all the Mavs are exceeding my expectations. There is a lot of room to improve but that´s to be expected. Bad clutch performance, lack of toughness...not unexpected for a young team that lacks experience.

Fair points, all.  I just wish Rick could and would adapt better and more quickly to what the opponent is throwing at us and not be so stubborn and rigid with lineup choices, i.e., insisting on small ball when it's clearly not working and we are falling behind.  Yes, we tend to make a comeback in games, but too often, as with last night, it's too little, too late.