MAVERICKS 139, PELICANS 107

[cow]

I feel like the time to trade him has passed.  If we had traded him during or prior to this last offseason, we would have had the flexibility to fill in the holes.  The perfect starting center match for Luka (Holmes) was available for 12 mil a year.  Depending what you traded KP for, you could tackle other holes.  You likely would have enough cap left over to sign DeRozan, who addresses the need for another player who can create for themselves and others.  Then you focus on 3&D guys to fill out the roster.  A Holmes/DFS/DeRozan/Luka core is better than a KP/DFS/Luka/THJ core.

But now?  Our big rotation is already an issue, and removing KP generates a gapping hole.  We don't have another starting quality center.  After Luka extension we have no cap to upgrade in free agency, and we have limited assets for trading.  You would want to get significant value out of a KP trade now or it makes little sense.  I don't see that happening any time soon.

Sometimes you need to take steps backwards to move forwards.  I guess it all depends on what side of the fence you land on if you think a core of KP/Luka can be a championship team.  I don't think they are but even if you do, this team has a lot of building to do around them to make this a championship roster.  That's gambling way too much on KP who only plays in ~60% of his games.

[mvossman]

Sometimes you need to take steps backwards to move forwards.  I guess it all depends on what side of the fence you land on if you think a core of KP/Luka can be a championship team.  I don't think they are but even if you do, this team has a lot of building to do around them to make this a championship roster.  That's gambling way too much on KP who only plays in ~60% of his games.

I don't disagree with occasionally stepping back, but think that needed to happen before they ran out of any cap advantage for dumping him.  I'm struggling to see what long term purpose it would serve now.

As for contending, I'm not sure they could not have already put a quasi contender out there.  A Brogdon, FVV or Ball would have made a big difference.  Hell if they simply got Dragic a couple years ago instead of Delon, they probably don't make that disastrous JRich trade.  Who knows where this team goes last year with Dragic and Curry.

[cow]

I don't disagree with occasionally stepping back, but think that needed to happen before they ran out of any cap advantage for dumping him.  I'm struggling to see what long term purpose it would serve now.

As for contending, I'm not sure they could not have already put a quasi contender out there.  A Brogdon, FVV or Ball would have made a big difference.  Hell if they simply got Dragic a couple years ago instead of Delon, they probably don't make that disastrous JRich trade.  Who knows where this team goes last year with Dragic and Curry.

The past is spilt milk though.  I'd have loved a ton of moves but we didn't make them.  I'm just trying to think of how to move forward now.  I'd honestly blow it up and try to be bad for two years.  And I get that puts us in the pickle of needing to start drafting well, but I again look at that as a past we have no control over.

[Scott41theMavs]

Sometimes you need to take steps backwards to move forwards.  I guess it all depends on what side of the fence you land on if you think a core of KP/Luka can be a championship team.  I don't think they are but even if you do, this team has a lot of building to do around them to make this a championship roster.  That's gambling way too much on KP who only plays in ~60% of his games.

I'm hoping for a series of trades which leave us with Luka, Frankie, DFS, and Maxi (and maybe Omaruyi) as the only current Mavs left on roster, presuming of course decent returns.

[cow]

I'm hoping for a series of trades which leave us with Luka, Frankie, DFS, and Maxi (and maybe Omaruyi) as the only current Mavs left on roster, presuming of course decent returns.

I'd love that fire sale but it's not going to happen.

[Mapka]

The past is spilt milk though.  I'd have loved a ton of moves but we didn't make them.  I'm just trying to think of how to move forward now.  I'd honestly blow it up and try to be bad for two years.  And I get that puts us in the pickle of needing to start drafting well, but I again look at that as a past we have no control over.

The NBA doesn't work like that. You can't just be bad and then be really good.

Away from the LeBron-Lakers/Cavs, who had assets and then were gifted the best player of the league, every team has to be good before becoming great.

You can blame the MBT all you want but you won't get a title without experience and LUCK. And to be lucky you have to be good first.

[mvossman]

The past is spilt milk though.  I'd have loved a ton of moves but we didn't make them.  I'm just trying to think of how to move forward now.  I'd honestly blow it up and try to be bad for two years.  And I get that puts us in the pickle of needing to start drafting well, but I again look at that as a past we have no control over.

It will be hard to be bad/tank with Luka on the team.  You also have to worry about keeping Luka for his third contract.  Don't think tanking for 2 year and rebuilding a year before his contract is up is the best way to keep him on the team.

The only way I see to move forward is work on the edges for the next couple of years until they get access to their picks.  For example, at the deadline it would make a lot of sense to trade for Theis (maybe WCS/Green/Second) and pickup a bought out Dragic.  If you don't think you can keep Brunson, then ship him out with Powell for something decent.  Next offseason you pay DFS and Brunson (if he is still here) what it takes to keep them.  Cuban is going to have to be willing to cross the tax line if necessary.  Then in a couple of years when you have access to your picks, you make a Bucks like trade to become a real contender (and keep your superstar).  Not surprisingly, a Jrue Holiday type player would be perfect next to Luka.  

I realize that plan does not leave much room for drafting.  The reality is that this team has generally been much better and hitting on cheap reclamation projects then middling draft picks.  We should be taking a shot at one or two of those a year, preferably at the minimum.  

Not an exciting path, but I don't see another reasonable route.  Any KP trade likely lowers our ceiling and makes us worse without any obvious path to get better soon enough to matter.  The clock is ticking and our time table is 3 or 4 more years at most.  Don't think there is enough time to go back and reset, especially when this organization has shown limited ability to do so correctly.

[omahen]

It will be hard to be bad/tank with Luka on the team.  You also have to worry about keeping Luka for his third contract.  Don't think tanking for 2 year and rebuilding a year before his contract is up is the best way to keep him on the team.

Not an exciting path, but I don't see another reasonable route.  Any KP trade likely lowers our ceiling and makes us worse without any obvious path to get better soon enough to matter.  The clock is ticking and our time table is 3 or 4 more years at most.  Don't think there is enough time to go back and reset, especially when this organization has shown limited ability to do so correctly.

I share your opinion. The only possible tank imho would be to sit Luka this season (either because he is injured or because he agrees) and aim for a very high draft pick in 2022. This could give us an asset we need for that big trade we need. The clock is ticking. Mavs have to be contenders in one or two years or Luka will be gone.

I don't think Mavs are very limited with their picks to trade. Only 2023 is owed. Key is to create opportunity, not just wait for one, imho. If you succeed, I am sure there are ways to overcome that 2023 limitation and construct an appealing offer. Not for superstar, we probably can't construct an offer for that. But a good starter, almost a star, should be possible, imho.

[cow]

It will be hard to be bad/tank with Luka on the team.  You also have to worry about keeping Luka for his third contract.  Don't think tanking for 2 year and rebuilding a year before his contract is up is the best way to keep him on the team.

The only way I see to move forward is work on the edges for the next couple of years until they get access to their picks.  For example, at the deadline it would make a lot of sense to trade for Theis (maybe WCS/Green/Second) and pickup a bought out Dragic.  If you don't think you can keep Brunson, then ship him out with Powell for something decent.  Next offseason you pay DFS and Brunson (if he is still here) what it takes to keep them.  Cuban is going to have to be willing to cross the tax line if necessary.  Then in a couple of years when you have access to your picks, you make a Bucks like trade to become a real contender (and keep your superstar).  Not surprisingly, a Jrue Holiday type player would be perfect next to Luka.  

I realize that plan does not leave much room for drafting.  The reality is that this team has generally been much better and hitting on cheap reclamation projects then middling draft picks.  We should be taking a shot at one or two of those a year, preferably at the minimum.  

Not an exciting path, but I don't see another reasonable route.  Any KP trade likely lowers our ceiling and makes us worse without any obvious path to get better soon enough to matter.  The clock is ticking and our time table is 3 or 4 more years at most.  Don't think there is enough time to go back and reset, especially when this organization has shown limited ability to do so correctly.

Luka is smart.  Two nights ago when we were getting bodied by the Cavs (THE CAVS) I saw Luka make an overly complicated pass to the corner (THJ) when he had a much easier pass to DFS on the wing.  THJ of course missed and you just saw a look of defeat on his face.  Pretty much the opposite of how he looked when playing for his national team.  KP is playing better this year and KP and Luka are playing better together but it still doesn't look like a natural fit and it's understandable why both we be frustrated with one another while putting on a good public face.  I think Luka is loyal.  I also think he can look at the landscape of the NBA and know he has no shot at a title with the roster construction and a WCF would be a massive overachievement.  I don't think he wants to put his nose into team building just yet, but if I were Nico I'd sit him down and talk to him.  Ask him how he views this team and its' potential.  And based on that conversation I'd float the idea of a rebuild.  I'd also have a presentation of how we'd approach the draft, the type of players we want to surround him with and projected free agents and trade targets for the next three years.  

Yes Luka is never going to let you get the number one pick (though the f'ing ping pong ball Gods do owe us) but this team isn't to far away from being one to pick in the later part of the top ten.

I don't think Mark would ever allow any of this, but if Nico is worth anything, he has to be having these conversations with Mark.  We look like a play-in team as we stand and duct tape like Dragic and Theis only puts you in the late seed contention.

[michaeltex]

First off...enough with the tanking talk. Unless there is a season ending injury to Luka, tanking isn't an option. 

That said, roster turnover is certainly within the scope of trying to improve. At this point anybody not named Luka is available for the right return. Injuries are starting to pile up around the league and pretty soon some teams are going to have to decide whether to keep trying (look for help) or circle the wagons and wait for next season (reduce salaries), so opportunities will be there for trades.

Denver comes to mind. Dame is out in POR, but there seem to be constant whispers about impending fire sales. Unhappiness in BOS, PHI and BKN. LALs stinking it up. SAC, HOU, TOR, IND all on the outside of the playoffs right now, but with interesting pieces. The lid comes off next week, so it could be an interesting Christmas. Maybe Nico will leave us a present under the tree?

[michaeltex]

Two nights ago when we were getting bodied by the Cavs (THE CAVS)

 FWIW, those Cavs just beat MIA in MIA, so they have a little something going on.

[mvossman]

I don't think Mark would ever allow any of this, but if Nico is worth anything, he has to be having these conversations with Mark.  We look like a play-in team as we stand and duct tape like Dragic and Theis only puts you in the late seed contention.

This seems like a very pessimistic take.  Folks were saying the same thing last year when we were in a much worse position after the Covid debacle.  This is the same team as last year, except KP is healthy and playing well, Brunson has taken another leap, Luka has another year of growth, and we have replaced JRich and junk with Bullock, Brown and Frank.  We are currently forth in the west (which is weaker than it was last year), have a new coaching staff and system the players are still getting used to, and have multiple guys in huge slumps.  Its hard not to react too negatively after a couple of shitty games, but the biggest thing I'm worried about this year vs last is the head coach.

Also, Nico has never been a GM or worked for one.  The fact that Cuban hired a guy that has no experience but might be popular with the players screams to me that he is still ultimately in charge and had delusions of grandeur regarding free agency.  I see no chance of him convincing Cuban to reset.

[Chicagojk]

Yeah, you can't rebuild. That is a non starter imo.   With Luka on your team, you need to show him you are competing every year and won't cut corners.  Breaking this thing down again to hope to rebuild better 2-3 years is a franchise killer imo.

The Mavs need to copy a similar roadmap of the Milwaukee Bucks.   They are behind where they should be at this point but that should be the roadmap.   Mavs need to be right on player identification and internal player development.   Then they need to ready to make that last big trade adding that Jrue Holiday type.  And they need to be right on that trade. 

I always viewed Milwaukee as a smart drafting team.  But I saw an article last year on how they have struggled since the Giannis pick.   They just hit a massive home run with Giannis and that hides a lot of misses.   They traded for and developed Middleton.  Right now, Dallas doesn't have a Middleton type, so they are a little behind there.   Then last year they made their big trade for Jrue.   Look at their other guys who were on the championship team:   Lopez was initially signed for 3 million.  Portis was signed for cheap.  Connaughton was brought in for cheap.  ETC.   

We are all hoping for a home run trade and maybe that comes.  But a couple of solid doubles would really put us in a better spot.   And those doubles could be had with the room and assets we currently have while also keeping enough in our war chest for that last big move.  A double could be a solid big man who can play 20-25 minutes.  Those guys grow on trees.   It can also be another good ball creator.  Wings who do this are harder to find, but guards are out there to be had.

[omahen]

FWIW, those Cavs just beat MIA in MIA, so they have a little something going on.

Miami without Butler and Adebayo

[Kammrath]

Luka has another year of growth

Doesn't feel that way so far.

[fifteenth]

Doesn't feel that way so far.

Have you felt his love handles?

[Kammrath]

Have you felt his love handles?

Nope, but I have seen them in high definition.

[fifteenth]

I experience my annual growth at the end of each year. Luka's seems to happen in the summer.

[SleepingHero]

I'm starting to get concerned for Luka. On more than one occasion during this game he came up grimacing and holding his left knee. Dude needs to be sat to fully heal honestly, but the Mavs can't do that lest they want to precipitously drop in the standings. Hope it's just Luka fighting through minor pain and it's nothing serious. But rarely is any knee pain "nothing serious"

[Kammrath]

I'm starting to get concerned for Luka. On more than one occasion during this game he came up grimacing and holding his left knee. Dude needs to be sat to fully heal honestly, but the Mavs can't do that lest they want to precipitously drop in the standings. Hope it's just Luka fighting through minor pain and it's nothing serious. But rarely is any knee pain "nothing serious"

That would be the left knee sprain he had when his ankle got rolled up on. The problem though is when the season started he was having knee pain already, caught it a few times as well as icing it during the game. Something was going on with his knee when the season started.