Trade & FA 2023-24: Hartenstein to get 100M?| Cavs Want to Keep Core 4?

[RGP1981]

@TheDunkCentral
The Minnesota Timberwolves are a potential landing spot for Darius Garland, per
@AmNotEvan


“A source shared with Right Down Euclid that a dark horse that could try to acquire him is the Minnesota Timberwolves. Since 2018, when Minnesota tried to trade up to select Garland in the 2018 NBA Draft, the Timberwolves have been fans of Garland’s game and need a succession plan for current starting veteran guard Mike Conley.”

Hmmm... I think the Mavs should want in on that action.

Kyrie + Lively for Garland + Allen... who says no? Can the Timberwolves beat that?

Well, I wouldn't say no, and I'd also be down with Garland + filler for Kyrie.

G: Garland (24yo) / Hardy (21yo)
G: DJJ (26yo), Wiggins (25yo)
F: Luka (24yo) / ?? / O-Max (21yo)
F: PJW (25yo)/ Kleber (32)
C: Allen (25yo) / Gafford (25yo)

The ages of most of these guys align quite nicely too. Leaving out Kleber, Hardy and O-Max, that's a heck of a core to have with an average age of 25 years.

[Scott41theMavs]

Hmmm... I think the Mavs should want in on that action. 

Kyrie + Lively for Garland + Allen... who says no? Can the Timberwolves beat that?

Well, I wouldn't say no, and I'd also be down with Garland + filler for Kyrie.

G: Garland (24yo) / Hardy (21yo)
G: DJJ (26yo), Wiggins (25yo)
F: Luka (24yo) / ?? / O-Max (21yo)
F: PJW (25yo)/ Kleber (32)
C: Allen (25yo) / Gafford (25yo)

The ages of most of these guys align quite nicely too... leaving out Kleber, Hardy and O-Max, that's a heck of a core to have with an average age of 25 years.

Now you're just trolling. 6 out of 10 tbh.

[RGP1981]

Now you're just trolling. 6 out of 10 tbh.

Oh c'mon now, I'm being serious. I like the roster I posted quite a lot better than the current roster. Do you not see how good it could be if it comes together? The Timberwolves aren't the only ones with an ageing point guard, the Mavs have one too in Kyrie. So getting Garland for Kyrie would be like a gift that dropped into your lap. Also, Allen will be better than Lively for some time because the former is just stronger and more filled out. And there's a lot less crappy contracts too (THJ, Green, Powell, Morris, etc).

[Scott41theMavs]

Oh c'mon now, I'm being serious. I like the roster I posted quite a lot better than the current roster. Do you not see how good it could be if it comes together? The Timberwolves aren't the only ones with an ageing point guard, the Mavs have one too in Kyrie. So getting Garland for Kyrie would be like a gift that dropped into your lap. Also, Allen will be better than Lively for some time because the former is just stronger and more filled out. And there's a lot less crappy contracts too (THJ, Green, Powell, Morris, etc).

Doubled-down-upon trolling. 

Lively is going to be far better than Allen.

I know you say you're a Luka-only fan, but you aren't focused on what helps Luka win. Kyrie is a fantastic fit with Luka (not to mention the chemistry), and has at least two strong years left at his current level. Quit trying to mortgage Luka's next two contention seasons by making him less able to compete.

[BigDirk41]

Hmmm... I think the Mavs should want in on that action.

Kyrie + Lively for Garland + Allen... who says no? Can the Timberwolves beat that?

Well, I wouldn't say no, and I'd also be down with Garland + filler for Kyrie.

G: Garland (24yo) / Hardy (21yo)
G: DJJ (26yo), Wiggins (25yo)
F: Luka (24yo) / ?? / O-Max (21yo)
F: PJW (25yo)/ Kleber (32)
C: Allen (25yo) / Gafford (25yo)

The ages of most of these guys align quite nicely too. Leaving out Kleber, Hardy and O-Max, that's a heck of a core to have with an average age of 25 years.

Absolutely not. HELL NO IS MORE LIKE IT.

[Luka77]

If Lively learns to shoot the corner three, (he already has that shot just needs to get it up in games), he will be much more valuable Allen.

[KillerLeft]

If Lively learns to shoot the corner three, (he already has that shot just needs to get it up in games), he will be much more valuable Allen.

Agreed, but I'd take him over Allen right now, even if he never improves an inch (which he obviously will). 

Lively is a difference maker. The areas in which he makes a difference are somewhat limited, but he's like 20, and again, this is the perfect marriage of team need and player skillset. Anything he adds to his game is gravy, to me.

[dirkfansince1998]

Pipe dream is picks + THJ for Avdija or Herb Jones. Save 3-4m and add another big wing defender. Mavs are better off with bigger lineups. And I am not talking about twin tower lineups. More 6'8/6'9 guys that can play SF/PF/small ball C.
But that's not realistic unless the Mavs throw all remaining assets into a trade like this.
No need to touch the center rotation unless the Mavs can find someone younger that can play Kleber's role.

[Chicagojk]

The thing about talking trades is I think the only way DJJ comes back is if he has a starting spot and probably wink wink deal that Mavs will take care of him.

[Scott41theMavs]

The thing about talking trades is I think the only way DJJ comes back is if he has a starting spot and probably wink wink deal that Mavs will take care of him.

That does limit teambuilding for next year quite a bit. 

The wider core is Lukai and the four dawgs (PJ, Lively, DJJ, and Landlord).

[dirkfansince1998]

The thing about talking trades is I think the only way DJJ comes back is if he has a starting spot and probably wink wink deal that Mavs will take care of him.

Not sure if he is in the position to ask for that. He had the best season of his career and I want him back in a Mavs jersey but for the entire season he averaged 9/3/1. 10/4/1 in the playoffs.
His first round performance on offense was mediocre. OKC series has been great. Really think that he is in the perfect spot and realizes it himself. There aren't a lot of teams that can work around his short comings as a shooter (that still exist, even though he had more hot stretches this season). That also have the kind of passer/playmaker that can create opportunities for a slasher/lob thread like him. Jokic is the only player the league that can "throw him open" on lob passes like Luka and the Mavs can offer more money than Denver.

Question is if recency bias of a big playoff run will lead to a big offer from one of the tanking teams (similar to the Mavs missing out on Thybull minus the RFA status).

[Scott41theMavs]

Not sure if he is in the position to ask for that. He had the best season of his career and I want him back in a Mavs jersey but for the entire season he averaged 9/3/1. 10/4/1 in the playoffs.
His first round performance on offense was mediocre. OKC series has been great. Really think that he is in the perfect spot and realizes it himself. There aren't a lot of teams that can work around his short comings as a shooter (that still exists, even though he had more hot stretches this season). That also have the kind of passer/playmaker that can create opportunities for a slasher/lob thread like him. Jokic is the only player the league that can "throw him open" on lob passes like Luka and the Mavs can offer more money than Denver.

Question is if recency bias of a big playoff run will lead to a big offer from one of the tanking teams (similar to the Mavs missing out on Thybull minus the RFA status).

Oh, I'd say it's safe to say he's earned a $10 mil offer from some team out there. How about the full MLE? Not sure. But I'd be very, very surprised if the Mavs were able to retain him at the TPMLE this summer. Pretty sure that if he's still a Mav it's that they engineered a way to be able to pay him quite a bit more.

[SleepingHero]

Pipe dream is picks + THJ for Avdija or Herb Jones. Save 3-4m and add another big wing defender. Mavs are better off with bigger lineups. And I am not talking about twin tower lineups. More 6'8/6'9 guys that can play SF/PF/small ball C.
But that's not realistic unless the Mavs throw all remaining assets into a trade like this.
No need to touch the center rotation unless the Mavs can find someone younger that can play Kleber's role.

I think THJ+2025 might be available for Deandre Hunter. 

He's not nearly the defender of Avdija or Jones. But he's close. He can also shoot the 3 pretty well.

[Scott41theMavs]

Here's a question to consider moving forward - how important is the Landlord? I think Lively is clearly the superior player right now, has growth headroom that absolutely dwarfs Gafford, and has the additional advantage of being on a rookie contract. There was certainly a considerable value to taking the pressure off Lively minutes and foul-wise this year. I think that diminishes as time goes on. I think it would be wonderful still to have Gafford here next year, but far less crucial than this year. I would imagine that Gafford next year is a 20 mpg player in the regular season, and about 15 mpg in the playoffs. Is that enough for him to deserve his salary next year? I'm sure they'd love to have that role filled at a lower salary next year and far moreso the year after. How much lower can the Mavs afford to go talent-wise for the sake of that savings? Or is there someone who would be just as effective in the role at a fraction of the price?

[mvossman]

Oh, I'd say it's safe to say he's earned a $10 mil offer from some team out there. How about the full MLE? Not sure. But I'd be very, very surprised if the Mavs were able to retain him at the TPMLE this summer. Pretty sure that if he's still a Mav it's that they engineered a way to be able to pay him quite a bit more.

It will not be that hard for the Mavs to get to roughly 10 mil.  Sending out Timmy for someone making around 12 will get us mostly there I think.

[F Gump]

I think THJ+2025 might be available for Deandre Hunter. 

He's not nearly the defender of Avdija or Jones. But he's close. He can also shoot the 3 pretty well.

I don't think that trade would be possible (or practical) because of the new trade rules pertaining to the apron at Apron 1. Assuming THJ gets traded, the return salary needs to be less, not more, and ideally it would be several million less.

[mvossman]

I think THJ+2025 might be available for Deandre Hunter. 

He's not nearly the defender of Avdija or Jones. But he's close. He can also shoot the 3 pretty well.

Don't think I send a first for Hunter.  If I am sending out a first it needs to be either for a legit defender or a legit 6th man.  Don't really think Hunter is either.

[F Gump]

It will not be that hard for the Mavs to get to roughly 10 mil.  Sending out Timmy for someone making around 12 will get us mostly there I think.

Assuming no other moves, the most you can pay DJJ after a trade of THJ with "matching" salary in return will be in the neighborhood of 8M. If you simply give THJ away into someone's cap room, that allows full MLE, but that's also harder and more expensive.

Just paying the taxpayer MLE to DJJ, then filling up the roster, has the Mavs about 3M over Apron 1.

[Mavs2021]

If Schroeder and Kleber can get over their beef, I think THJ for Schroeder would be a decent deal for the Mavs. You create the extra space to re-sign DJJ and you get the needed 3rd ballhandler that you know won´t shrink in the big moments.

[KillerLeft]

If Schroeder and Kleber can get over their beef, I think THJ for Schroeder would be a decent deal for the Mavs. You create the extra space to re-sign DJJ and you get the needed 3rd ballhandler that you know won´t shrink in the big moments.

On the other hand, it sure seems like everyone has hated him on every team he has played for. Don’t you think part of what is working here is chemistry?