Trade & FA 2023-24: 76ers Believe They Have A Shot at PG13

[mvossman]

We get A first round picks with Wiggins? Yeah I probably take Wiggins with compensation.

The crazy thing is you could still lose that trade, especially if its protected.  Folks are questioning the 25 mil we ate with the Holmes contract for a first round pick.  Wiggins is over 100 mil.  If he continues to play like he has most of this season, you still come out way behind.

[Smitty]

The crazy thing is you could still lose that trade, especially if its protected.  Folks are questioning the 25 mil we ate with the Holmes contract for a first round pick.  Wiggins is over 100 mil.  If he continues to play like he has most of this season, you still come out way behind.

It’s crazy to me that people don’t see this. His contract is one of the worst, if not the worst, in the league. Every dollar matters in this new NBA.

[SleepingHero]

The crazy thing is you could still lose that trade, especially if its protected.  Folks are questioning the 25 mil we ate with the Holmes contract for a first round pick.  Wiggins is over 100 mil.  If he continues to play like he has most of this season, you still come out way behind.

Except Wiggins is 2 years removed from being the 2nd most important person from a championship run. Holmes was never at that level. If Wiggins works out then you've literally solved your wing issue and 3rd scorer and got paid a 1st to do it. 

Of course this is freaking incredibly risky move and if it doesn't work then like KL said, it could be an extinction level event. But you can at least see the payoff and fit. 

I'd make that a 2029 or 2027 first so the mavs have some future trade flexibility. 


Also underrated aspect, Mavs get off of paying Maxi's extension. That at least cushions the cap hit Wiggins will take.

[SleepingHero]

Also the Warriors have Kevon Looney. I wonder if he could be added. He'd be a fantastic backup. Probably in lieu of a pick.

Would that be more appetizing?

[Mavs2021]

It’s crazy to me that people don’t see this. His contract is one of the worst, if not the worst, in the league. Every dollar matters in this new NBA.

Wiggins makes $3M annually more than Holmes/Kleber this and next season. Then it´s $28M and $30M (a player option), which will likely be anywhere from the 60th to 90th highest paid player by the time (50th right now), so 3rd best player on a team territory. In this proposed trade he´s actually the best contract and we get a first. I really don´t understand what you people expect? That we get Jaylen Brown for Holmes/Kleber?

[vfromlmf]

FWIW I'd do Wiggins and a 1st for Williams and Holmes. If it's Kleber I'd have to find another 5-out center. Olynek would be on my list.

Then THJ and the pick for Kuz.

[Smitty]

Wiggins makes $3M annually more than Holmes/Kleber this and next season. Then it´s $28M and $30M (a player option), which will likely be anywhere from the 60th to 90th highest paid player by the time (50th right now), so 3rd best player on a team territory. In this proposed trade he´s actually the best contract and we get a first. I really don´t understand what you people expect? That we get Jaylen Brown for Holmes/Kleber?

You are not getting a FRP from GS to take Wiggins. Anyone that thinks so, is delusional. I mean no disrespect. In this hypothetical it’s also unlikely that Holmes & Kleber would be the trade for Wiggins. GS doesn’t want a bad player (Holmes) and bad money (Kleber). Sure, they want to rid themselves of Wiggins (rightfully so), but I think it’s highly unlikely that they would do so, while keeping themselves in the same financial position this year and next. 

As for Wiggins in general. He’s terrible. I won’t dive into all the stats because it’s not really necessary. He’s bad at basketball and will get paid 100M to play it.

[DallasMaverick]

You are not getting a FRP from GS to take Wiggins. Anyone that thinks so, is delusional. I mean no disrespect. In this hypothetical it’s also unlikely that Holmes & Kleber would be the trade for Wiggins. GS doesn’t want a bad player (Holmes) and bad money (Kleber). Sure, they want to rid themselves of Wiggins (rightfully so), but I think it’s highly unlikely that they would do so, while keeping themselves in the same financial position this year and next. 

As for Wiggins in general. He’s terrible. I won’t dive into all the stats because it’s not really necessary. He’s bad at basketball and will get paid 100M to play it.

The problem is that his contract is so significantly negative, for so long, that it seriously handcuffs any team that takes it on.

That's why Golden State should be so motivated to shed it.  But it's also really tricky, because, unless they put a lot of protections on it, a first round pick is likely to be really high.  So they mortgage their future by keeping Wiggins, or by trading him with a pick.

The Winners' Conundrum: The cap rules today are a bit different than they were back in 2011, but Donnie and Cuban had the same kind of dilemma that Golden State did:  Pay inflated salaries to re-up your players that brought you a championship, or let them walk and incur the ire of fans for years to come.  Donnie opted to let them walk.  Golden State opted to pay.

Which approach worked better?  I know it might be premature to make that call, since Golden State is likely to be bad for many years to come.  Seems like their only hope for the future is to build through the draft.  So maybe their best move is to swallow hard, keep their overpriced players, be bad and pay luxury tax for a few years, and hope they hit on some draft picks and can be good in the late 2020's or early 2030's.

[Mavs2021]

You are not getting a FRP from GS to take Wiggins. Anyone that thinks so, is delusional. I mean no disrespect. In this hypothetical it’s also unlikely that Holmes & Kleber would be the trade for Wiggins. GS doesn’t want a bad player (Holmes) and bad money (Kleber). Sure, they want to rid themselves of Wiggins (rightfully so), but I think it’s highly unlikely that they would do so, while keeping themselves in the same financial position this year and next. 

As for Wiggins in general. He’s terrible. I won’t dive into all the stats because it’s not really necessary. He’s bad at basketball and will get paid 100M to play it.

It was a very specific trade and it was discussed. You can´t just change the trade details in your head and then argue it´s a sh*t trade. Besides it still not being a sh*t trade, if it is Holmes/Kleber for Wiggins. I don´t believe the Warriors would do the trade either. Why though is it a bad trade for us, if you think the Warriors would be the team to decline the deal. If we win the trade, we are better off.

Also they want to trade Wiggins, cause of their overall cap situation and future flexibility, not because the contract is that horrific by itself.

[JamesConway912]

For some folks around here it truly only matters what a player has done over the last few weeks when it comes to talent evaluations, doesn’t it? 

You’ll never be able to make a an anticyclical but right decision by applying that logic though. Player evaluation is a lot more nuanced than that as there are constantly players available needing a change of scenery around the league. 

It’s not like DAL hasn’t made their fair share of moves like that in the past. For instance Dinwiddie was TERRIBLE im Washington but very impactful for us. Why? Because he was a perfect match here for our style of play and for the role we envisioned for him. It’s not crazy talk to see the upside with Wiggins either.

Also some context on Wiggins:

- Yes Wiggins has been terrible so far this season 

- Yes right now his production isn’t worth his salary

but

- he also had a HUGE injury just half a year ago (rib fracture)

- he didn’t have a real training camp due to his injury 

- he is slowly getting better (DanS posted his latest stats)

- & most importantly he’s been a very impactful player in the past on the biggest stage in basically exactly the role we need 

You’re probably not getting a 1st for taking him but he’s far from an albatross contract if he just somewhat finds his groove again.

Look I don’t have to convince anybody around here about anything so I’m done with discussing the Wiggins idea but I would not be surprised to see his name pop up again around here once he has stringed together 2-4 weeks of adequate play. Big picture wise a two way wing who has produced like him just makes too much sense on our squad.

[Smitty]

It was a very specific trade and it was discussed. You can´t just change the trade details in your head and then argue it´s a sh*t trade. Besides it still not being a sh*t trade, if it is Holmes/Kleber for Wiggins. I don´t believe the Warriors would do the trade either. Why though is it a bad trade for us, if you think the Warriors would be the team to decline the deal. If we win the trade, we are better off.

Also they want to trade Wiggins, cause of their overall cap situation and future flexibility, not because the contract is that horrific by itself.

I didn’t change any of the details of the hypothetical trade. What are you talking about? We don’t win the trade. Neither does GS. It’s a terrible hypothetical.

[KillerLeft]

I'll admit it: I'd rather have Kleber than Wiggins.



Seems like the Warriors fan who proposed that would, too. Something to pause and think about, imo.

[BigDirk41]

Maxi is so overrated on this board, it's ridiculous. The guy is washed and doesn't do jack shit now.

[DanSchwartzgan]

Also the Warriors have Kevon Looney. I wonder if he could be added. He'd be a fantastic backup. Probably in lieu of a pick.

Would that be more appetizing?

Given the money, I'd rather have Trace Jackson-Davis as the sweetener if I assume Moody isn't coming.

[Mavs2021]

I'll admit it: I'd rather have Kleber than Wiggins.



Seems like the Warriors fan who proposed that would, too. Something to pause and think about, imo.

Also something to think about is the fact that Maxi is 32 years old, chronically injured since he´s 18. 

Currently 

averaging 4/3/2 (rounding up graciously) in 19 MPG
shooting 34/26/66
on/off overall is minus 8.2 (mostly against back-ups). 
on/off defensively is minus 5.6.

26.5 for 2.5 years left.
 
So if you are argue as a prisoner of the moment for Wiggins´s performance level, then Maxi´s career/contract is on death row right now. Currently he´s not even worth 1.1M let alone 11M per year.

[JamesConway912]

I'll admit it: I'd rather have Kleber than Wiggins.



Seems like the Warriors fan who proposed that would, too. Something to pause and think about, imo.

GS has a problem with their payroll so it makes sense for them to move on from
Wiggins and gain flexibility.

But in regards to Maxi. He’s done as a dependable rotation player in this league. He has played only 32 games last year, will play even fewer games this season and had a complete breakdown in production so far  this season whenever he stepped on the court (bad defense, 3ppg on offense, terrible shooting) while getting up there in age.

But I get, he’s the last german player from that one city in Unterfranken so the thought of moving on from him sucks.

[KillerLeft]

Maxi is so overrated on this board, it's ridiculous. The guy is washed and doesn't do jack shit now.

Maybe, but…

1) The last time Kleber was a difference maker, that was “the good year” of Wiggins. You’re saying one is washed and the other is not?

2) The Mavericks need a versatile big off the bench. Someone who can play 5-out 5. If you move Kleber, that removes any chance of filling that role without ANOTHER deal. 

3) Kleber’s contract is small. Wiggins’ contract is so big I did a spit take earlier when I checked on it. The difference between those numbers and their effect on the cap cannot be overstated. 

From my perspective you would be creating a new hole without even filling the one you’re attempting to fill. You can call it overrating Kleber if you wish, but I mean it as “hell no” to Wiggins under any circumstances. I say again: extinction level event.

[mvossman]

For some folks around here it truly only matters what a player has done over the last few weeks when it comes to talent evaluations, doesn’t it? 

You’ll never be able to make a an anticyclical but right decision by applying that logic though. Player evaluation is a lot more nuanced than that as there are constantly players available needing a change of scenery around the league. 

It’s not like DAL hasn’t made their fair share of moves like that in the past. For instance Dinwiddie was TERRIBLE im Washington but very impactful for us. Why? Because he was a perfect match here for our style of play and for the role we envisioned for him. It’s not crazy talk to see the upside with Wiggins either.

Also some context on Wiggins:

- Yes Wiggins has been terrible so far this season 

- Yes right now his production isn’t worth his salary

but

- he also had a HUGE injury just half a year ago (rib fracture)

- he didn’t have a real training camp due to his injury 

- he is slowly getting better (DanS posted his latest stats)

- & most importantly he’s been a very impactful player in the past on the biggest stage in basically exactly the role we need 

You’re probably not getting a 1st for taking him but he’s far from an albatross contract if he just somewhat finds his groove again.

Look I don’t have to convince anybody around here about anything so I’m done with discussing the Wiggins idea but I would not be surprised to see his name pop up again around here once he has stringed together 2-4 weeks of adequate play. Big picture wise a two way wing who has produced like him just makes too much sense on our squad.

The issues regarding Wiggins goes well beyond this season.  My biggest concern is that he spent most of his career not trying on defense.  Are we sure he is going to try again?  If he doesn't then all you have is an inefficient chucker (his career TS% is 53, which is not good).

[mvossman]

Maxi is so overrated on this board, it's ridiculous. The guy is washed and doesn't do jack shit now.

I think he was underrated (especially defensively) for most of his career, but he is broken now and I don't know if he will recover.  Its a shame because 2 year ago Maxi would be such an asset to this team.

---

Also something to think about is the fact that Maxi is 32 years old, chronically injured since he´s 18. 

Currently 

averaging 4/3/2 (rounding up graciously) in 19 MPG
shooting 34/26/66
on/off overall is minus 8.2 (mostly against back-ups). 
on/off defensively is minus 5.6.

26.5 for 2.5 years left.
 
So if you are argue as a prisoner of the moment for Wiggins´s performance level, then Maxi´s career/contract is on death row right now. Currently he´s not even worth 1.1M let alone 11M per year.

You act like the Wiggins hate is based entirely on this season.  He has a long history of being a bad basketball player while making a ton of money.  Two good years at Golden State does not completely wash that away.

[KillerLeft]

Wiggins…has a long history of being a bad basketball player while making a ton of money.  Two good years at Golden State does not completely wash that away.