Trade & FA 2023-24: 76ers Believe They Have A Shot at PG13

[KillerLeft]

to bring things back to where we started, I think it argues that there might be a role here for Hardy (once THJ has been moved) after all. 

Just a reminder that THIS is the point I originally tried to make that got this drunken bar fight rolling. 

I don't expect Hardaway to be here very much longer.

[Smitty]

Just a reminder that THIS is the point I originally tried to make that got this drunken bar fight rolling. 

I don't expect Hardaway to be here very much longer.

For me, that thinks Tim is bad for this team, Hardy is even worse.

[KillerLeft]

For me, that thinks Tim is bad for this team, Hardy is even worse.

Then friend, you should be praying that Hardaway makes it past the TDL. 

I'm ready for the team get younger, as I have been since the summer.

[Smitty]

Then friend, you should be praying that Hardaway makes it past the TDL. 

I'm ready for the team get younger, as I have been since the summer.

I would trade Hardy for a player like Grimes in a heartbeat. A young defender that can also shoot at a high percentage is what this team needs. Not a terrible defender and a poor shooter.

I would trade THJ for a player like PJ Washington in a heartbeat. A poor defender, but better than Tim, who can score in multiple ways and has more size. I will pray that THJ doesn’t make it past the TDL and that Hardy isn’t the direct replacement for scoring. 
There’s more than one way to rid yourself of THJ and Hardy not be the replacement.

[KillerLeft]

I would trade Hardy for a player like Grimes in a heartbeat. A young defender that can also shoot at a high percentage is what this team needs. Not a terrible defender and a poor shooter.

I would trade THJ for a player like PJ Washington in a heartbeat. A poor defender, but better than Tim, who can score in multiple ways and has more size. I will pray that THJ doesn’t make it past the TDL and that Hardy isn’t the direct replacement for scoring. 
There’s more than one way to rid yourself of THJ and Hardy not be the replacement.

Yeah, in multiple deals, sure. Do you expect multiple deals??

They are going to play a SG, however. I think you're headed towards disappointment, either way.

[Smitty]

Yeah, in multiple deals, sure. Do you expect multiple deals??

They are going to play a SG, however. I think you're headed towards disappointment, either way.

Sure, I expect to be disappointed. Trades take two sides and they aren’t easy. Doesn’t mean I have to pray that THJ makes it past the TDL. I’d rather hope for more than settle for the inevitable. That’s part of being a fan of the Mavs, unfortunately.

[KillerLeft]

Doesn’t mean I have to pray that THJ makes it past the TDL. I’d rather hope for more than settle for the inevitable. That’s part of being a fan of the Mavs, unfortunately.

Wow, why so serious?

You don't HAVE to do anything.

[Smitty]

Wow, why so serious?

You don't HAVE to do anything.

It was in response to you saying I should pray Tim makes it past the TDL. I’m not being all too serious. I’m contributing to the board, with ways that I think this team can get better.

[mvossman]

My 2-cents on the great THJ debate of 2024.  It kind of reminds me of the Wood discussion last season…including the outsized emotion.  Wood is an obviously talented offensive player that can’t find a home or any money, yet people here lost their minds when you suggested the obvious.

THJ is also an obviously talented offensive player.  But, there are issues and they are mainly around his D and the limits to his game at his size.

1.  Defense:  He’s the worst defender on the team.  Yeah, its cool he takes charges and all, but worst D-Rating and DBPM and if you dig through 82-games, he’s got the biggest On-Off defensive spread on the team (by a mile).  He kills the defense of any lineup you run with him…period.

My problem with this argument is that you are only looking at a half season of sample for very noisy stats.  What was his DEPM, defensive rating and defensive on/off last year?  They paint a completely different picture.  He is not a good defender.  A lot of players on this team are not good defenders.  His defensive advanced stats look wildly worse this half season than they have in the past due to bad lineup construction and noise.  If you make roster decisions based on a couple of months of very noise data, your going to be hopping all over the place.

And this is very different than the Wood debate.  A big part of that debate was maturity and locker room issues.  There is no hint of that here.

[mvossman]

I would trade Hardy for a player like Grimes in a heartbeat. A young defender that can also shoot at a high percentage is what this team needs. Not a terrible defender and a poor shooter.

I would trade THJ for a player like PJ Washington in a heartbeat. A poor defender, but better than Tim, who can score in multiple ways and has more size. I will pray that THJ doesn’t make it past the TDL and that Hardy isn’t the direct replacement for scoring. 
There’s more than one way to rid yourself of THJ and Hardy not be the replacement.

I'm sure you would trade Hardy for Grimes, but no chance that gets it done.  Timmy for PJ makes some sense.

[omahen]

Yeah, in multiple deals, sure. Do you expect multiple deals??

They are going to play a SG, however. I think you're headed towards disappointment, either way.

Exum and Green will play SG. I think minutes will be very limited for Curry or Hardy, if THJ is replaced by offensively capable PF.

[Scott41theMavs]

My problem with this argument is that you are only looking at a half season of sample for very noisy stats.  What was his DEPM, defensive rating and defensive on/off last year?  They paint a completely different picture.  He is not a good defender.  A lot of players on this team are not good defenders.  His defensive advanced stats look wildly worse this half season than they have in the past due to bad lineup construction and noise.  If you make roster decisions based on a couple of months of very noise data, your going to be hopping all over the place.

And this is very different than the Wood debate.  A big part of that debate was maturity and locker room issues.  There is no hint of that here.

I dunno, refusing to pass the ball when common basketball sense would dictate it seems pretty immature to me, and would likely leave me disgruntled after each game if I were his teammate.

[KillerLeft]

It was in response to you saying I should pray Tim makes it past the TDL. I’m not being all too serious. I’m contributing to the board, with ways that I think this team can get better.

Um, sure…ok. I’m not sure our tones are matching up here. No worries. Carry on.

[KillerLeft]

Exum and Green will play SG. I think minutes will be very limited for Curry or Hardy, if THJ is replaced by offensively capable PF.

I suppose it depends a little on the incoming player(s), but I don’t agree that’s likely. We’ll see if/when it happens.

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I dunno, refusing to pass the ball when common basketball sense would dictate it seems pretty immature to me, and would likely leave me disgruntled after each game if I were his teammate.

And yet we never hear about anyone on the team being disgruntled. Only fans. 

I do not agree with your common sense comment. I think they want him to shoot, not pass, and I think the fact that they keep running them out there supports that. There are exceptions, of course. It’s not as if he can do no wrong.

[Scott41theMavs]

I suppose it depends a little on the incoming player(s), but I don’t agree that’s likely. We’ll see if/when it happens.

---

And yet we never hear about anyone on the team being disgruntled. Only fans. 

I do not agree with your common sense comment. I think they want him to shoot, not pass, and I think the fact that they keep running them out there supports that. There are exceptions, of course. It’s not as if he can do no wrong.

I was being a little tongue-in-cheek. Remember TMOGE? I was channeling him.

[mvossman]

I dunno, refusing to pass the ball when common basketball sense would dictate it seems pretty immature to me, and would likely leave me disgruntled after each game if I were his teammate.

Has there even been a hint of disgruntlement with teammates?  I think this gets really overblown.  Sometimes he takes shots when he shouldn't.  Most guys do stuff they shouldn't on the court.  Green doesn't pull the trigger when he should.  Luka whines too much, Williams should probably never put the ball on the floor.  You could probably go down the list of every player.  He still shoots 37% on very high volume.  There are way worse chuckers out there, and every advanced stat says he is a positive on offense (third on team unless you count one month of Exum ball).

[KillerLeft]

Remember TMOGE? I was channeling him.

I miss that guy…and so many others.

[Smitty]

Um, sure…ok. I’m not sure our tones are matching up here. No worries. Carry on.

Apologies, I was responding from my phone and probably didn't make myself all that clear. I believe there are a number of ways to make this team better by the TDL. Health being number one but here are some trade ideas that I think are realistic.

Notice all of them have THJ outgoing and all of them keep the Mavs under the tax line.

Trade 1

THJ, Holmes, SRP
Dinwiddie, O'Neal

Both Dinwiddie and O'Neal are expiring so Mavs clear roughly 29M next year.

Trade 2

THJ, Hardy
Fournier, Grimes

Fournier is basically an expiring this year so you get off of Tim's deal in the process.

Trade 3

THJ, Curry, SRP
PJ Wash, Richards

Trade 4

THJ, SRP
Wendell Carter Jr

Trade 5

THJ, Gwill, Holmes, SRP
Hayward, Bridges

Mavs get off ~41M next year and have a chance to build a team around Luka.

Trade 6

THJ, Curry, '27 FRP
Gafford, Avdija


In conclusion, any of these trades make the Mavs better this year and next, IMO. All of them account for THJ's scoring outgoing.

[KillerLeft]

Apologies, I was responding from my phone and probably didn't make myself all that clear. I believe there are a number of ways to make this team better by the TDL. Health being number one but here are some trade ideas that I think are realistic.

Notice all of them have THJ outgoing and all of them keep the Mavs under the tax line.

Trade 1

THJ, Holmes, SRP
Dinwiddie, O'Neal

Both Dinwiddie and O'Neal are expiring so Mavs clear roughly 29M next year.

Trade 2

THJ, Hardy
Fournier, Grimes

Fournier is basically an expiring this year so you get off of Tim's deal in the process.

Trade 3

THJ, Curry, SRP
PJ Wash, Richards

Trade 4

THJ, SRP
Wendell Carter Jr

Trade 5

THJ, Gwill, Holmes, SRP
Hayward, Bridges

Mavs get off ~41M next year and have a chance to build a team around Luka.

Trade 6

THJ, Curry, '27 FRP
Gafford, Avdija


In conclusion, any of these trades make the Mavs better this year and next, IMO. All of them account for THJ's scoring outgoing.

I like a lot of these ideas, and would pull the trigger on several of them.

All I’m saying is that in most of those scenarios, I believe Hardy’s minutes would increase significantly. I do not agree with what is becoming consensus, that THJ’s presence on the roster is the only thing preventing them from playing a bunch of larger players who cannot shoot.

Giving all of his minutes to Exum/Green seems good in some ways, but I just feel all of the long years of basketball I have experienced have taught me that when push comes to shove, they are going to play lineups full of people who can shoot. 

TL;DR: I just don’t think there are roles enough for DJJ, Williams AND mystery trade target PF. In particular, I have very little faith that Exum at the 2 and DJJ in the front court with another forward can work. 

To top all of that off, there are ton of people who think Kleber should be playing forward. I don’t agree, but there is some validity to that thinking, and that makes the scene even more crowded.

If I’m trading for a 4, i’m doing everything humanly possible to get Grant Williams into that deal. That’s just the way it makes sense to me.

[Smitty]

I like a lot of these ideas, and would pull the trigger on several of them.

All I’m saying is that in most of those scenarios, I believe Hardy’s minutes would increase significantly. I do not agree with what is becoming consensus, that THJ’s presence on the roster is the only thing preventing them from playing a bunch of larger players who cannot shoot.

I don't believe Hardy's minutes would increase at all, if the team is healthy. And I've never argued that THJ's presence is preventing them from playing larger players that can't shoot. The players that can't shoot (Hardy, Curry, Lawson), are the reason THJ gets minutes.
  
Giving all of his minutes to Exum/Green seems good in some ways, but I just feel all of the long years of basketball I have experienced have taught me that when push comes to shove, they are going to play lineups full of people who can shoot. 

I know the attempts per game aren't comparable but Green (39.6%) and Exum (47.7%) are capable 3PT shooters. THJ (36.6%)

TL;DR: I just don’t think there are roles enough for DJJ, Williams AND mystery trade target PF. In particular, I have very little faith that Exum at the 2 and DJJ in the front court with another forward can work. 

To top all of that off, there are ton of people who think Kleber should be playing forward. I don’t agree, but there is some validity to that thinking, and that makes the scene even more crowded.

If I’m trading for a 4, i’m doing everything humanly possible to get Grant Williams into that deal. That’s just the way it makes sense to me.

I think the next 11 days will be the last time the Mavs will be able to move Grant without it costing an asset. I want him gone just as much as THJ.