Trade & FA 2023-24: 76ers Believe They Have A Shot at PG13

[Chicagojk]

Any three team trade ideas where Dallas gets Detroit's Bojan and Hardaway winds up somewhere else? Mavs supposedly had interest this offseason in Bojan but the price was probably too high. I think Detroit can find a better deal for him unless Dallas can make it a three way. While Bojan is not a strong defender he does have more size while also being a good shooter. Detroit is a mess and Bojan can opt out this offseason. I think there is a strong chance he is moved this year. While it may not be a long term fix it does even us out a little more.

[mvossman]

If this was a transition season...why the hell hire and extend KI...if next year we will have more picks to use,maybe some young guys take a step etc...but also KI is a year older,Maxi will be (even) more unplayable, add a year to players in decline Powell/Curry and the result is +- being at the same point going around in circles.. We have a historically good backcourt, you would have to dig hard to find a more talented one (if there is one) they don't need to accumulate to get a 3 star, only solid complementary players, who can defend themselves... Use unprotected FRP 27, yes It's a real help (if a Caruso type) get a big backer and see where it takes us...this summer we will have 2 more available, we just need good role players (as an example the trades from White to Boston/Gordon to Demver for an FRP )..Caruso is a no brainer, we need him and he is a game changer..don't worry about a little overpayment... By the way, what do you think of Curry for Achiuwa? Achiuwa has been pretty bad, but he is in a terrible role...and he is a very good PF defender, he can rebound...it would be a marginal change, but an interesting bet

The answer to your first question is that there has been a clear shift in methodology this last offseason.  I don't know if its because Cuban sated his long term desire to land a "star", because being a lottery team with said star was the final jolt needed, or because of the influence of Lindsey in the FO, but this team clearly is looking more long term than it has in the past.  

So you need to separate the decision to trade for Kyrie and the decisions made this offseason including resigning him.  The reason for resigning him is simple.  That contract is an asset, and the alternative of not signing him was nothing.  We would not have generated any more cap space than the offer we made to Thybulle.  Even if he does not perfectly fit the timeline, its a no brainer to sign him.  He is still playing at a very high level, and there is reason to hope he can continue that for a couple more years.

I think the decision to focus on the long term makes a lot of sense.  This was a lottery team last season, even more so after the trade and we did not have a truckload of assets to generate a massive turnaround.  The list of guys with improvement potential is a lot longer right now that the list of guys with decline potential.  I don't remember the last time we could have said that.

[mvossman]

Any three team trade ideas where Dallas gets Detroit's Bojan and Hardaway winds up somewhere else?  Mavs supposedly had interest this offseason in Bojan but the price was probably too high.    I think Detroit can find a better deal for him unless Dallas can make it a three way.  While Bojan is not a strong defender he does have more size while also being a good shooter.    Detroit is a mess and Bojan can opt out this offseason.  I think there is a strong chance he is moved this year.  While it may not be a long term fix it does even us out a little more.

Surprisingly, Timmy rebounds about as well as Bojan.  The issue is that Bojan will cost more than Timmy and is about to be 35.  I don't think I want to pay additional assets for him.

[StrandedOnBeauboisHill]

I think the Hardaway/Hardy conversation is kind of missing the point. It's not about if Hardy is as good as Hardaway today from either a bball standpoint or asset value (he's clearly not) but more so is he good enough to make Hardaway an asset we can cash in on via trade without seeing a major drop in overall team production from that position. With that in mind, it doesn't make sense to pair them together in a trade package. You either move Hardaway or attach Hardy to Maxi/Holmes, attaching Hardy to Hardaway would put us in a tough spot post trade. You want to have one of those guys around putting up contested shots because no one else on this roster feels comfortable doing it (looking at you Josh).

The thing that always drove me crazy about the national media narrative around last year's struggles post trade was that it was all focused on acquiring Kyrie and not focused on the fact that we lost DFS and had NOTHING to replace his role with. It was a team struggling on defense that traded it's best defender and replaced it with....well Luka kind of and and Green at times. That's when things really became a layup line for the opposition. Bringing in Grant Williams has helped us a little bit but we still need to find a way to replicate Maxi's defense from the 2022 run whether it be from a healthy Maxi or someone we acquire via trade.

In the case of this year, if we end up moving Hardaway and cashing in while he's playing pretty well, at least we won't be trying to fit a round peg into a square hole trying to replace his role because Hardy at least looks the part. His production most likely wouldn't be equal to Hardaway in that hypothetical but at least he wouldn't look out of place.

[surfpuckmd]

I think the Hardaway/Hardy conversation is kind of missing the point.  It's not about if Hardy is as good as Hardaway today from either a bball standpoint or asset value (he's clearly not) but more so is he good enough to make Hardaway an asset we can cash in on via trade without seeing a major drop in overall team production from that position.  With that in mind, it doesn't make sense to pair them together in a trade package.  You either move Hardaway or attach Hardy to Maxi/Holmes, attaching Hardy to Hardaway would put us in a tough spot post trade.  You want to have one of those guys around putting up contested shots because no one else on this roster feels comfortable doing it (looking at you Josh).

The thing that always drove me crazy about the national media narrative around last year's struggles post trade was that it was all focused on acquiring Kyrie and not focused on the fact that we lost DFS and had NOTHING to replace his role with.  It was a team struggling on defense that traded it's best defender and replaced it with....well Luka kind of and and Green at times.  That's when things really became a layup line for the opposition.  Bringing in Grant Williams has helped us a little bit but we still need to find a way to replicate Maxi's defense from the 2022 run whether it be from a healthy Maxi or someone we acquire via trade. 

In the case of this year, if we end up moving Hardaway and cashing in while he's playing pretty well, at least we won't be trying to fit a round peg into a square hole trying to replace his role because Hardy at least looks the part.  His production most likely wouldn't be equal to Hardaway in that hypothetical but at least he wouldn't look out of place.

This is exactly right.  We should choose between the two because we just don't have enough minutes for them both to thrive here  As Hardy's value has likely tanked due to performance and lack of opportunity, THJ is the obvious piece to trade.  I'd be fine with Hardy performing slightly worse than THJ because he has the potential to be a better player eventually.  

I believe trading THJ for another big man is the obvious move here.  Orlando would be a good target as they have three really good centers.  They also really need shooting and another veteran.  That team is adjusting to being really good all of a sudden.  Another vet to go along with Joe Ingles would help that bench.  Wendell Carter Jr. would fit our needs well.  I think THJ and the 2027 first for WCJ would improve both teams.  It would give us a 6'10 270 lb big who rebounds, plays defense and can hit 3s.  You like wingspan? How's 7'5"? Perfect fit.

[mvossman]

I think the Hardaway/Hardy conversation is kind of missing the point.  It's not about if Hardy is as good as Hardaway today from either a bball standpoint or asset value (he's clearly not) but more so is he good enough to make Hardaway an asset we can cash in on via trade without seeing a major drop in overall team production from that position.  With that in mind, it doesn't make sense to pair them together in a trade package.  You either move Hardaway or attach Hardy to Maxi/Holmes, attaching Hardy to Hardaway would put us in a tough spot post trade.  You want to have one of those guys around putting up contested shots because no one else on this roster feels comfortable doing it (looking at you Josh).

The thing that always drove me crazy about the national media narrative around last year's struggles post trade was that it was all focused on acquiring Kyrie and not focused on the fact that we lost DFS and had NOTHING to replace his role with.  It was a team struggling on defense that traded it's best defender and replaced it with....well Luka kind of and and Green at times.  That's when things really became a layup line for the opposition.  Bringing in Grant Williams has helped us a little bit but we still need to find a way to replicate Maxi's defense from the 2022 run whether it be from a healthy Maxi or someone we acquire via trade. 

In the case of this year, if we end up moving Hardaway and cashing in while he's playing pretty well, at least we won't be trying to fit a round peg into a square hole trying to replace his role because Hardy at least looks the part.  His production most likely wouldn't be equal to Hardaway in that hypothetical but at least he wouldn't look out of place.

Agreed on Dorian.  He (and Maxi when healthy) was the anchor of the defense.  A two way big wing would make a ton of difference on this team.  Just don't see that happening this season.  It should be top priority next offseason.

I would have no issue sending out Timmy if we get any kind of long term value.  Hardy probably won't be as good, but some of those minutes make sense to go to a more defensive oriented player, and that would be easier to do with Timmy off the roster.

[mvossman]

This is exactly right.  We should choose between the two because we just don't have enough minutes for them both to thrive here  As Hardy's value has likely tanked due to performance and lack of opportunity, THJ is the obvious piece to trade.  I'd be fine with Hardy performing slightly worse than THJ because he has the potential to be a better player eventually.  

I believe trading THJ for another big man is the obvious move here.  Orlando would be a good target as they have three really good centers.  They also really need shooting and another veteran.  That team is adjusting to being really good all of a sudden.  Another vet to go along with Joe Ingles would help that bench.  Wendell Carter Jr. would fit our needs well.  I think THJ and the 2027 first for WCJ would improve both teams.  It would give us a 6'10 270 lb big who rebounds, plays defense and can hit 3s.  You like wingspan?  How's 7'5"?  Perfect fit.

I like WCJ, but that is too much for him, and don't want to spend more assets on a center.

[ItsGoTime]

I said this in the offseason. Trade THJ for a big and the combination of Hardy, Exum and Curry in those minutes approximates the offense THJ brings but increases the defense (Exum) and more versatile offense.

[surfpuckmd]

I like WCJ, but that is too much for him, and don't want to spend more assets on a center.

I think he'd be worth it.  

The paradigm in the league has changed and bigger teams are succeeding.  The Timberwolves have 3 centers among their top 6 players and lead the West.  Denver has a huge frontcourt and just won the championship.  Even Houston has succeeded with two bigs starting.

Teams that were supposed to be small-ball contenders like the Warriors and Lakers have struggled.

Unfortunately, our current lineup is quite small.  Especially when Lively isn't playing. 

Carter Jr. fixes that while still being able to space the floor.  We could play occasional two big lineups and would be tough to defend.  He'd fix our rebounding issues and give us a fighting chance against Jokic and the other giant centers in the league.  

Bitadze would also be a good get and definitely cheaper but he doesn't space the floor the same way.  WCJ is a better player and better fit.

[mvossman]

I think he'd be worth it.  

The paradigm in the league has changed and bigger teams are succeeding.  The Timberwolves have 3 centers among their top 6 players and lead the West.  Denver has a huge frontcourt and just won the championship.  Even Houston has succeeded with two bigs starting.

Teams that were supposed to be small-ball contenders like the Warriors and Lakers have struggled.

Unfortunately, our current lineup is quite small.  Especially when Lively isn't playing. 

Carter Jr. fixes that while still being able to space the four.  We could play occasional two big lineups and would be tough to defend.  He'd fix our rebounding issues and give us a fighting chance against Jokic and the other giant centers in the league.  

Bitadze would also be a good get and definitely cheaper but he doesn't space the floor the same way.  WCJ is a better player and better fit.

I feel like calling him a floor spacer may be pushing it.  He takes one 3 a game with a career average of 32%.  There has been some improvement there, but not enough to where I think we could count on him playing the Maxi role.  Certainly not enough to where I would be comfortable gambling a first.

It doesn't really matter because why would Orlando be sending out their best center in a trade to acquire a pick when they are 12-5?  I don't see them doing that kind of a move.

[Mike lorenzo]

Houston seems like a good landing spot for Tim...Udoka has mixed young players and veterans very well...just look at the step forward they have taken...they are in the fight for the Play-offs, they lack a reliable 6 man scorer (even I would say that their starting guard J.Green) is the weakest link on the team..Oladipo+Minimum contract, they match the money..would they send the worst of their FRP 25 (he has 2 and 3 seconds) to THJ+SRP?.. This would leave us with FRP protected + Mavs 27 unprotected, Oladipo expiration + (Hardy/Curry) as assets to negotiate.. I think that is already OG/Siakam land

[StrandedOnBeauboisHill]

Houston seems like a good landing spot for Tim...Udoka has mixed young players and veterans very well...just look at the step forward they have taken...they are in the fight for the Play-offs, they lack a reliable 6 man scorer (even I would say that their starting guard J.Green) is the weakest link on the team..Oladipo+Minimum contract, they match the money..would they send the worst of their FRP 25 (he has 2 and 3 seconds) to THJ+SRP?.. This would leave us with FRP protected + Mavs 27 unprotected, Oladipo expiration + (Hardy/Curry) as assets to negotiate.. I think that is already OG/Siakam land

I think we need to be thinking of trades that bring back basketball assets right now.

[surfpuckmd]

I feel like calling him a floor spacer may be pushing it.  He takes one 3 a game with a career average of 32%.  There has been some improvement there, but not enough to where I think we could count on him playing the Maxi role.  Certainly not enough to where I would be comfortable gambling a first.

It doesn't really matter because why would Orlando be sending out their best center in a trade to acquire a pick when they are 12-5?  I don't see them doing that kind of a move.

Carter Jr. shot 3.9 threes per game last season and hit at 35.6 percent.  That's pretty good for a big and that was with Markelle Fultz and Cole Anthony as his point guards.  Those numbers are both better than Maxi last season.  It doesn't really matter that he didn't shoot threes in his first few years.

You're probably right though that he's not available.  Orlando has been winning without him though and Bitadze has been awesome.  Mo Wagner is a good backup.  They have Banchero and Isaac at the 4 and they don't really have minutes for all 5.   I'd gladly take Bitadze off their hands instead.  They do need a vet shooter at guard.  THJ would work well next to Jalen Suggs in the starting lineup.  They need a shooter.

[youzigizag]

Carter Jr. shot 3.9 threes per game last season and hit at 35.6 percent.  That's pretty good for a big and that was with Markelle Fultz and Cole Anthony as his point guards.  Those numbers are both better than Maxi last season.  It doesn't really matter that he didn't shoot threes in his first few years.

You're probably right though that he's not available.  Orlando has been winning without him though and Bitadze has been awesome.  Mo Wagner is a good backup.  They have Banchero and Isaac at the 4 and they don't really have minutes for all 5.   I'd gladly take Bitadze off their hands instead.  They do need a vet shooter at guard.  THJ would work well next to Jalen Suggs in the starting lineup.  They need a shooter.

Per RealGM Orlando board...

All trades proposed want a shooter in return...and they are using Fultz, Harris, WCJ and assets in those trades.   I dont see any trades with Isaac involved...so the fans must want to keep him.   Im sure he is gettable for the right player...Im just saying they arent using him in trades.

If that means anything to you at all. My main point is that they are using WCJ in trade discussions.

[mvossman]

Carter Jr. shot 3.9 threes per game last season and hit at 35.6 percent.  That's pretty good for a big and that was with Markelle Fultz and Cole Anthony as his point guards.  Those numbers are both better than Maxi last season.  It doesn't really matter that he didn't shoot threes in his first few years.

You're probably right though that he's not available.  Orlando has been winning without him though and Bitadze has been awesome.  Mo Wagner is a good backup.  They have Banchero and Isaac at the 4 and they don't really have minutes for all 5.   I'd gladly take Bitadze off their hands instead.  They do need a vet shooter at guard.  THJ would work well next to Jalen Suggs in the starting lineup.  They need a shooter.

Your right, I totally screwed up the 3s per game.  I would be intrigued by a Lively/WCJ/Williams frontcourt rotation if that 3 is for real.  Prolly not an option though.

[Chicagojk]

If this was a transition season...why the hell hire and extend KI...if next year we will have more picks to use,maybe some young guys take a step etc...but also KI is a year older,Maxi will be (even) more unplayable, add a year to players in decline Powell/Curry and the result is +- being at the same point going around in circles.. We have a historically good backcourt, you would have to dig hard to find a more talented one (if there is one) they don't need to accumulate to get a 3 star, only solid complementary players, who can defend themselves... Use unprotected FRP 27, yes It's a real help (if a Caruso type) get a big backer and see where it takes us...this summer we will have 2 more available, we just need good role players (as an example the trades from White to Boston/Gordon to Demver for an FRP )..Caruso is a no brainer, we need him and he is a game changer..don't worry about a little overpayment... By the way, what do you think of Curry for Achiuwa? Achiuwa has been pretty bad, but he is in a terrible role...and he is a very good PF defender, he can rebound...it would be a marginal change, but an interesting bet

Transition year?  I don't think I would define it that way.   I would be really surprised if this team is able to add talent or build internally and become a real contender this year.   That is ok.  My focus is to be a regular NBA team again that is competitive and plays in high pressure games for future growth.   If you have Luka and Kyrie at peak ability, you have a chance against anyone.  Probably not enough to win a series against the better teams, but enough to cause a lot of unease with those team.    

The focus of this season is building cohesion and internal development.   They need to be ready to contend once they make their big(ish) trade in the next year.   So building depth and internal development will be really important over the next year.

By next season, if we could have development of the below it would be a great sigh:

Lively-One of our top 3 players.   Before the season I was thinking top 4-5 in a year from now.   He may already be there.
OMAX-  Be one of the top 6-7 players on the roster
Josh- Be a consistent, reliable high minute rotation player.  Prior to the season I would have said consistent, reliable starter.  I just don't think the team sees him in that role though. 
Hardy- Can he be an every game rotation player

Last year was the one year you could sort of tell Luka is wasn't about winning. I don't think you get another chance to do that.

[surfpuckmd]

Per RealGM Orlando board...

All trades proposed want a shooter in return...and they are using Fultz, Harris, WCJ and assets in those trades.   I dont see any trades with Isaac involved...so the fans must want to keep him.   Im sure he is gettable for the right player...Im just saying they arent using him in trades.

If that means anything to you at all.  My main point is that they are using WCJ in trade discussions.

Seems like there may be a deal there that could benefit both teams.  They have too many centers and we have too many shooting guards.  I think we can solve each others problems.

[youzigizag]

Seems like there may be a deal there that could benefit both teams.  They have too many centers and we have too many shooting guards.  I think we can solve each others problems.

We should have an in with Mosley as the coach there too.  Unless he hated our talent when he was here.   He should know THJ, no?

Saw on RealGM that Sacramento is looking for a PF too. So we have competition acquiring a PF/C.

[SleepingHero]

Honestly why aren't we gunning hard for Andrew Wiggins?

He's currently getting eaten alive by the Warriors media, and he's having a career low year. 12ppg, pretty horrible metrics across the board. BUT he is theoretically a 2 way wing with size. We've seen just how good he can be next to 2 all-stars. He's only 28.

I think he's a prime buy low candidate on top of the fact the Warriors are facing a horrific luxury tax. So they may be motivated in breaking Wiggins into smaller pieces.

Wiggs for THJ+Powell

[youzigizag]

Honestly why aren't we gunning hard for Andrew Wiggins?

He's currently getting eaten alive by the Warriors media, and he's having a career low year. 12ppg, pretty horrible metrics across the board. BUT he is theoretically a 2 way wing with size. We've seen just how good he can be next to 2 all-stars. He's only 28.

I think he's a prime buy low candidate on top of the fact the Warriors are facing a horrific luxury tax. So they may be motivated in breaking Wiggins into smaller pieces.

Wiggs for THJ+Powell

I like this idea.  I just dont have any clue how realistic it is based on the cap and Warriors FO attachment, if any, to Wiggins.

Warriors seem to be getting attacked by the media lately.   Are they in blow-it-up territory?  I know there is talk of trying to move Klay.

Man, Wiggins is the perfect fit for Luka...hes not ball dominant.   Wiggins was their second best player in the Playoffs though...so I dont know if Warriors are still trying to win and would keep him for that reason given he is a long two way player.

EDIT: Looking over GSW RealGM board...they are talking moving Wiggins. The posts I saw want a shooter in return. They proposed Wiggins for Buddy Heild and Toppin. Do we have something with THJ that can beat that? I know a lot of people have thought Green would excel in GSW's offense due to the passing and cutting. I dont want to lose Green at all...but Wiggins is a long, two-way player that fits with Luka. He's under contract for 3 more years too. Ascending contract...24, 26, 28, 30.