Trade & FA 2023-24: PHX Wants Lebron+Bronny| Jazz to Shop Collins

[Mike lorenzo]

If the Jazz get too greedy they will eat it... this overpayment and they got it for Rudy Gay... it is also blocking their lottery pick this year

[Mavs2021]

No to Collins and Collins. You don´t pay 1st round returns for FREE players, because you are too stupid to take a chance, when you could have gotten them literally for nothing. That´s for suckers.

[Chicagojk]

Patrick Williams is a huge question mark. Chicago trading him for cheap happens only if he is bad or expects unrealistic salary (probably in summer). Or both. I would prefer to go for a more surefire option. One right move and Mavs could become serious. Meh moves, Mavs will remain a class or two below serious contenders.

I think you described DeAndre Hunter very nicely. He looks the part but doesn't really have as much of an impact as one would expect. However, Atlanta is trying to compete, so I am not sure what would convince them to sell their starter to Mavs. I think their goals are more towards bringing in a "third" star next to Trae and Murray.

Yeah, I am having trouble finding any workable deals for these type of players.  Ideally you could maybe steal one with a limited asset, but Dallas doesn't really have the contracts or picks that work here.   

I am sort of stuck that the guys I really want may not be available but if they are we would be tough to compete against other teams.  The guys who may be gettable are not guys I would want to use good assets to get.

[youzigizag]

Yeah, I am having trouble finding any workable deals for these type of players.  Ideally you could maybe steal one with a limited asset, but Dallas doesn't really have the contracts or picks that work here.   

I am sort of stuck that the guys I really want may not be available but if they are we would be tough to compete against other teams.  The guys who may be gettable are not guys I would want to use good assets to get.

Can you define your definition of good asset?

RealGM TRADES section has a thread dedicated to finding Mavs a tweener wing.   Granted it was two Magic fans chiming in...but they said Chuma Okeke is gettable for cheap...like a 2nd round pick.   They claim he has the size we want plus he plays defense.   Questionable shooter though.

Seems like all the other back and forth convo involved players Mavs would have to overpay for.   Im curious is Okeke is worth anything on the floor to Dallas or its a hard pass for a reason?

There is convo that involves reacquiring DFS.  I dont know how you all feel about that.  Get Caruso and DFS and then get Drummond/Craig for cheap.   I dont know how doable that is.   Just relaying info.   Seems like Mavs are always stuck trying to find a niche player for their system.

[Chicagojk]

Can you define your definition of good asset?

RealGM TRADES section has a thread dedicated to finding Mavs a tweener wing.   Granted it was two Magic fans chiming in...but they said Chuma Okeke is gettable for cheap...like a 2nd round pick.   They claim he has the size we want plus he plays defense.   Questionable shooter though.

Seems like all the other back and forth convo involved players Mavs would have to overpay for.   Im curious is Okeke is worth anything on the floor to Dallas or its a hard pass for a reason?

There is convo that involves reacquiring DFS.  I dont know how you all feel about that.  Get Caruso and DFS and then get Drummond/Craig for cheap.   I dont know how doable that is.   Just relaying info.   Seems like Mavs are always stuck trying to find a niche player for their system.

I thought about Okeke this offseason and I agree he wouldn't cost a lot.  He seems more like an offseason type move though if you believed in the player.  I am actually not sure what second round picks we can offer plus the salary match.  

DFS would cost at least a first round pick...maybe more.  He is playing well and even if he may have slowed down some, it doesn't appear to be showing.  He is a guy that most teams would have interest in due to his salary and skillset.  Same thing with Caruso who I think almost every team would have interest in.   I think both would take most of the assets we currently have.   I don't think either turn us into a contender this year.

[chaparral]

Can you trade the remaining TE from the Bertans trade with picks?

If we waved Morris now that would but us further under the LT. Would it be enough to trade the TE for a player like Bey or Achiuwa who the hawks and raptors did not extend this past off-season? And still stay under the LT this season?

Last, would Kyrie have to approve this?

[surfpuckmd]

Can you define your definition of good asset?

RealGM TRADES section has a thread dedicated to finding Mavs a tweener wing.   Granted it was two Magic fans chiming in...but they said Chuma Okeke is gettable for cheap...like a 2nd round pick.   They claim he has the size we want plus he plays defense.   Questionable shooter though.

Seems like all the other back and forth convo involved players Mavs would have to overpay for.   Im curious is Okeke is worth anything on the floor to Dallas or its a hard pass for a reason?

There is convo that involves reacquiring DFS.  I dont know how you all feel about that.  Get Caruso and DFS and then get Drummond/Craig for cheap.   I dont know how doable that is.   Just relaying info.   Seems like Mavs are always stuck trying to find a niche player for their system.

Okeke is interesting in that he is a poor offensive player and a poor defensive player.  That's unusual in the NBA and usually only occurs in 1st-round busts-  which he is.

He will be available next summer for a minimum contract or will play overseas.  He solves none of our problems.

DFS would help us.  DJJ is probably a slightly better defensive player but DFS is a better shooter.  I don't know if he's worth his contract though.  He's definitely not worth our 2027 1st round pick.

Caruso would be great.  I'd trade Hardy and our 2027 1st for Alex Caruso.  He'd immediately be our 3rd-best player and would upgrade our defense considerably.  If we get Drummond in the same deal, I think we'd be a top-8 roster in the NBA.

[youzigizag]

Caruso...

Who does he work with and without on the Mavs?

I think kyrie is better at defense than what the board suggests, same with Green and same with Luka.

Thinking Basketball had a piece a year or so ago suggesting that Caruso and Lonzo Ball were the best back court defenders in the league. Could Green and Caruso not duplicate that to a certain degree?

Why would Caruso not work here?

He seems to be a disruptor like Marcus Smart(whom this board seems to despise. Why? I dont know).

Please dont tell me Luka excuses. Im tire or hearing about Luka pairing excuses. Love the guy...but its time to retool to something more workable.

I dont want to talk about Luka issues...I wan to talk about solutions to the problems. Again...for the record...I think Luka is good at defense.

Caruso is small...not a rebounder...but seems to fit the defense first mentality that posters want. Too expensive?

Which PF's are more worth the trouble?

[Jason Terry]

THJ, Hardy, 27 unprotected FRP

For

Caruso, Patrick Williams and Drummond

Bulls likely say no but it’s fun to think about

[KillerLeft]

THJ, Hardy, 27 unprotected FRP

For

Caruso, Patrick Williams and Drummond

Bulls likely say no but it’s fun to think about

Bulls say yes so fast your head would spin.

Caruso is great.

Williams is a bust, and missing on him with #4 is a big reason times are tough for Chicago. I was a big fan of his potential, but he hasn’t developed AT ALL since. 

Drummond could help a bit, but…

THJ is the second best player in the deal. Hardy and ‘27 are the two best assets in the deal BY FAR.

This is the type of deal that gets GM’s fired.

[youzigizag]

Bulls say yes so fast your head would spin.

Caruso is great.

Williams is a bust, and missing on him with #4 is a big reason times are tough for Chicago. I was a big fan of his potential, but he hasn’t developed AT ALL since. 

Drummond could help a bit, but…

THJ is the second best player in the deal. Hardy and ‘27 are the two best assets in the deal BY FAR.

This is the type of deal that gets GM’s fired.

I hate talking down about players...

But...

Are you wanting to keep Hardy?  Based on?  Does he not over dribble and turn ball over too much for you?  If not...explain.  Love his one on one ability...but its 1990's ball to me.   Convince me otherwise. 

I want Jaden to succeed...I just think his game is Hero-Ball and not Modern NBA ball.  

What are our trade pieces and what should we accept as return?

[Mike lorenzo]

I hate to say it..but Hardy has no value, let's face it a small guard with a questionable defense that averages 10 minutes per game...maybe you can get an SRP or a mediocre prospect in trouble... It is known that THJ has been available for a long time and here it remains... It was universally seen as a negative contract, this year he is playing well and perhaps due to his declining contract and only one more year.. possibly it is positive, but don't think anyone is giving a FRP unless you are getting bad money.

[mvossman]

I hate to say it..but Hardy has no value, let's face it a small guard with a questionable defense that averages 10 minutes per game...maybe you can get an SRP or a mediocre prospect in trouble... It is known that THJ has been available for a long time and here it remains... It was universally seen as a negative contract, this year he is playing well and perhaps due to his declining contract and only one more year.. possibly it is positive, but don't think anyone is giving a FRP unless you are getting bad money.

Hardy demonstrated that he can create his own offense on decent efficiency at the NBA level in his rookie year.  That is value.  I don't think a slow start in a 13 game sample is enough to change that.  He is only getting 11 minutes per game because this team deep, Kidd is playing tightened rotations and he is not a great fit for what we need.  Does not mean he does not have value.

[Scott41theMavs]

Hardy demonstrated that he can create his own offense on decent efficiency at the NBA level in his rookie year.  That is value.  I don't think a slow start in a 13 game sample is enough to change that.  He is only getting 11 minutes per game because this team deep, Kidd is playing tightened rotations and he is not a great fit for what we need.  Does not mean he does not have value.

Eh, I'd say he *had* value, and JKidd conspiring with circumstances and Hardy's growing pains are killing that value. 

Definitely don't see him as part of the future. Considering he was supposed to be THJ's replacement, that means that the Mavs' targets have to include scorers, which are of course the most expensive targets.

The Mavs are in a really crappy position right now - lots of potential with our big two and Lively, but lots of holes on the roster, especially in terms of defense. If they trade '27, that mortgages two of the three picks they could send out this summer (iirc) for a significant trade. If they trade THJ, they don't have enough offense. It would take a huge home run trade to justify sending out the '27. 

The excitement of the first few games is starting to wear off, tbqh. It's a long season, and there's still several months until the TDL. I know everyone wants them to make a move now, but let's see how this all plays out. I'd feel a lot better about things if we had a real coach, but at least we have a real GM (between Nico and Lindsay) as seen by the offseason successes, so there's that.

[youzigizag]

I agree with Scott. And Im a huge THJ critic.

What is odd is...out of THJ's flaws and Hardy's flaws...I might prefer THJ launches over Hardy dancing with the basketball leading to turnovers.

Sad...because the kid is trying and has immense talent...its jus that And-1 style crossovers are hard to pull off in the League. You have to have a super tight dribble and prove you wont fumble the ball.

Ill take THJ's offense as of right now.

[mvossman]

Eh, I'd say he *had* value, and JKidd conspiring with circumstances and Hardy's growing pains are killing that value. 

Definitely don't see him as part of the future. Considering he was supposed to be THJ's replacement, that means that the Mavs' targets have to include scorers, which are of course the most expensive targets.

The Mavs are in a really crappy position right now - lots of potential with our big two and Lively, but lots of holes on the roster, especially in terms of defense. If they trade '27, that mortgages two of the three picks they could send out this summer (iirc) for a significant trade. If they trade THJ, they don't have enough offense. It would take a huge home run trade to justify sending out the '27. 

The excitement of the first few games is starting to wear off, tbqh. It's a long season, and there's still several months until the TDL. I know everyone wants them to make a move now, but let's see how this all plays out. I'd feel a lot better about things if we had a real coach, but at least we have a real GM (between Nico and Lindsay) as seen by the offseason successes, so there's that.

So you are saying 15 games has tanked his value.  I don't think GMs kneejerk as much as fans do, but I could be wrong.

I think its really early to say he can't ever provide us what Timmy does.  It probably wont be this year, but I think there is a good chance he gets there eventually.

This team needs a two way wing who can be the number 3.  That's not really impacted by Hardy growth or sending out Timmy.  We are unlikely to acquire that player this season, which is fine.  We are not ready yet.

This season is about player development and jelling as a team.  There was never going to be a magic trade to take this team from the lottery to contender in one year.  This should probably be the mindset at the TDL as well.

[Winter]

It seems to me, if you're going to upgrade your talent with rebounding and defense, then Holmes likely is traded with some combination of Kleber, Green, or Hardy depending on what teams want. I'm not sure THj is in that trade scenario.

Trading for a wing is another matter, but until another big man is acquired who can play minutes in the post, the Mavs will continue to have a glaring problem.

[RoyTarpleysGhost]

Hardy was ass in the summer league too. If you’re going to be a rotation player on a good team, you gotta dominate summer league. Plus his ceiling is basically Jordan Clarkson.

Can’t remember another player in recent Mavs history I would’ve jumped at the chance to sell high on if he had any value last offseason.

[Mike lorenzo]

If this was a transition season...why the hell hire and extend KI...if next year we will have more picks to use,maybe some young guys take a step etc...but also KI is a year older,Maxi will be (even) more unplayable, add a year to players in decline Powell/Curry and the result is +- being at the same point going around in circles.. We have a historically good backcourt, you would have to dig hard to find a more talented one (if there is one) they don't need to accumulate to get a 3 star, only solid complementary players, who can defend themselves... Use unprotected FRP 27, yes It's a real help (if a Caruso type) get a big backer and see where it takes us...this summer we will have 2 more available, we just need good role players (as an example the trades from White to Boston/Gordon to Demver for an FRP )..Caruso is a no brainer, we need him and he is a game changer..don't worry about a little overpayment... By the way, what do you think of Curry for Achiuwa? Achiuwa has been pretty bad, but he is in a terrible role...and he is a very good PF defender, he can rebound...it would be a marginal change, but an interesting bet

[mvossman]

Hardy was ass in the summer league too. If you’re going to be a rotation player on a good team, you gotta dominate summer league. Plus his ceiling is basically Jordan Clarkson.

Can’t remember another player in recent Mavs history I would’ve jumped at the chance to sell high on if he had any value last offseason.

Wasn't Brunson terrible in the summer league?  He turned out ok.  Feels like small sample recency bias has folks ready to jump ship on him.  I'm not against trading him if we get value as I'm not sure he fits long term, but I think he has some value now, and will likely have more in the future with a little patience.