Trade & FA 2023-24: PHX Wants Lebron+Bronny| Jazz to Shop Collins

[Luka77]

Don't think so.  I read that the Heat signed their draft pick so he wasn't eligible to be included in Dame trade.

Heats draft pick will be available but not until July 31st.

[SleepingHero]

Have to say…Thybulle talk is scaring me to death.

He’s literally another Ntilikina. A little bigger, but imo he’s NOT a Brown type who can guard bigger guys. Great point of attack defender, but as we’ve discussed at length there are currently like 6-7 players on the roster who will soak up guard minutes. On offense, he’s not much of a shooter and cannot handle the ball to play-make or even dribble. Not the kind of guy I want clogging the books, personally. Full MLE? No, thank you.

Grant Williams would be infinitely better.

Has Frank ever come close to an All-defense team? I feel like that's a massive undersell on Thybulle's abilities.

He's not a scorer by any means, but he's undoubtably a top 10 perimeter defender in the league and has an argument to be in the top 5. 

For what it's worth (and I know it's been repeated here already) but in 22 games with Portland, Thybulle shot 39% from 3 on 4 attempts a game. 

Parsing through Franks game logs, he's never had such an efficient stretch with that many attempts ever.


Thybulle isn't even in the same realm as Franky.

[Jason Terry]

Has Frank ever come close to an All-defense team? I feel like that's a massive undersell on Thybulle's abilities.

He's not a scorer by any means, but he's undoubtably a top 10 perimeter defender in the league and has an argument to be in the top 5. 

For what it's worth (and I know it's been repeated here already) but in 22 games with Portland, Thybulle shot 39% from 3 on 4 attempts a game. 

Parsing through Franks game logs, he's never had such an efficient stretch with that many attempts ever.


Thybulle isn't even in the same realm as Franky.

Luka/Seth
Kyrie/Hardy
Green/Thybulle 

We would still have so much work to do on the 4/5 positions, but if he’s best player available i like the balance he creates(along with Seth) at the 1-3 positions 

I could see a lot of Luka/Kyrie/Green/Thybulle lineups with Maxi or Lively at the 5 depending on opponent

[KillerLeft]

Has Frank ever come close to an All-defense team? I feel like that's a massive undersell on Thybulle's abilities.

He's not a scorer by any means, but he's undoubtably a top 10 perimeter defender in the league and has an argument to be in the top 5. 

For what it's worth (and I know it's been repeated here already) but in 22 games with Portland, Thybulle shot 39% from 3 on 4 attempts a game. 

Parsing through Franks game logs, he's never had such an efficient stretch with that many attempts ever.


Thybulle isn't even in the same realm as Franky.

Hey, maybe you’re right. BUT, with Kyrie, Curry and Hardy needing to play guard, exclusively, THJ, Bullock and Exum being better at guard and Green probably slotted to play a high percentage of his time there in order to guard point of attack a fair amount himself, I just don’t see this as a need. At least, not compared to the need for those who can guard forwards. Right now, that list is pretty much just OMAX and (*gulp*) Luka. 

Again, thybulle isn’t really known for guarding UP a position. His bag is more about smothering smaller players with length because he can keep up with them. I’m not into it, personally.

[surfpuckmd]

Hey, maybe you’re right. BUT, with Kyrie, Curry and Hardy needing to play guard, exclusively, THJ, Bullock and Exum being better at guard and Green probably slotted to play a high percentage of his time there in order to guard point of attack a fair amount himself, I just don’t see this as a need. At least, not compared to the need for those who can guard forwards. Right now, that list is pretty much just OMAX and (*gulp*) Luka. 

Again, thybulle isn’t really known for guarding UP a position. His bag is more about smothering smaller players with length because he can keep up with them. I’m not into it, personally.

Grant Williams and PJ Washington are much better fits with our current roster than Thybulle.  I think it's possible that we'll lose out on both of those players, however.  If that happens, Thybulle would probably be the best player realistically available to us.  He and Josh Green would give us some serious wing defense.  We'd have to trade THJ for a power forward at that point.  

Obviously, it would be much better if we could just sign Washington or Grant Williams and solve our power forward problem directly.

[rocky164]

Can we SnT Wood pus 2027 FRP for Allen? Wood for Allen as a basic framework makes a lot of sense for both teams.

[Razzmatazz_Hopskidillydoo]

Can someone post stats on how Thybulle and Grant Williams performed against Tatum/Butler?
Not that the Mavs would be facing them frequently but I'd like to feel better with Thybulle at SF (I'm not convinced with Thybulle for the full MLE).

[ItsGoTime]

Can we send Lively in a trade?  If its Lively and one of our salary filler guards then I am all in.  I don't think it makes sense to send both Lively and the 27.  That is too much.  There are not a lot of options out there where I would send the unprotected 27.  Not for Grant's bloated contract and not for a center.  Siakam would make sense, but I don't think we have the assets to get that done.  

We are not going to be a contender this coming season.  Lets get a young defensive player with the MLE and see where we are at after the season.  Then we will have a much younger roster and 3 firsts to trade.  That is when we make the big move.

I am so tired of this exact same thing being said every. single. offseason.

What big trade do we need for this team that would cost 3 FRPs? We have our 2 superstars. We need the well fitting other guys. This can’t be their mentality. It was already assinine that the 27 wasn’t used at the TDL last season after the Kyrie trade (of course I know there might not have been a trade available). We’ll have 2 FRPs next year, that should be more than enough for the type if talent we need. 

Use the freakin 27 to upgrade the team in the first year of Kyrie’s contract, don’t hold on to it for some mythical trade. Now is the time.

---

Can someone post stats on how Thybulle and Grant Williams performed against Tatum/Butler?
Not that the Mavs would be facing them frequently but I'd like to feel better with Thybulle at SF (I'm not convinced with Thybulle for the full MLE).

Grant was amazing against Tatum during the regular season!

Edit: my sauces say.

[Razzmatazz_Hopskidillydoo]

Grant was amazing against Tatum during the regular season!

Edit: my sauces say.

LOL, you're right. 
Should have said the likes of Tatum/Butler/Lebron/Derozan.
Basically some of the best SFs.

[HoosierDaddyKid]

That's the trick question.

"Hey, you guys want to give us a starting center for THJ?"  CLICK

Probably need to add some asset to THJ to get things moving.  What asset do we have if we dont want to trade Hardy or Green?

None. I doubt teams want a 2030 SRP.

[Branduil]

Can we SnT Wood pus 2027 FRP for Allen? Wood for Allen as a basic framework makes a lot of sense for both teams.

If Wood agreed to a contract that starts at about 6.5 million, you could trade Wood + Bullock + 27 to Cleveland for Allen and both teams end up under the tax line, I think.

[Dundalis]

Have to say…Thybulle talk is scaring me to death.

He’s literally another Ntilikina. A little bigger, but imo he’s NOT a Brown type who can guard bigger guys. Great point of attack defender, but as we’ve discussed at length there are currently like 6-7 players on the roster who will soak up guard minutes. On offense, he’s not much of a shooter and cannot handle the ball to play-make or even dribble. Not the kind of guy I want clogging the books, personally. Full MLE? No, thank you.

Grant Williams would be infinitely better.

Im hesitant of Thybulle also, but he's a two time all defensive player. Saying he's basically like guys who've never been near an all defensive team is way underrating his defense. His defensive IQ off ball is at a completely different level. Guy is a chaotic disruptive force, even if he isn't as great defending bigger wings one on one (I personally think he's fine in space). He's a guy who can make an insane defensive play despite being 5-10 feet away from ball carrier. He has Josh Green's energy, but 10x the defensive awareness, plus a 7 foot wingspan.

[Jym]

I'm still fuzzy on the details of sign&trades

Can you do a sign&trade for a sign&trade? Like Wood outgoing with Thybulle coming in?

[DanSchwartzgan]

I'm still fuzzy on the details of sign&trades

Can you do a sign&trade for a sign&trade? Like Wood outgoing with Thybulle coming in?

Yes, if you follow all of the other rules.  There is nothing about a S&T per se that keeps the incoming player from also being a S&T.

[DanSchwartzgan]

Yes, if you follow all of the other rules.  There is nothing about a S&T per se that keeps the incoming player from also being a S&T.

Since you asked specifically about Thybulle (and by extension G-Williams), there is an issue here.  Both of those guys will be BYC (so they either count as their old salary or 50% of their new salary as outgoing).  

You won’t be able to use Wood for Williams and stay under the first apron if Williams makes more than the MLE.  This actually applies to any trade, not just Williams.  We are right on the first apron if we use the entire MLE.  So, any trade for someone making more than $12.4mm is going to require us to move salary from the existing books (Wood represents the creation of additional salary).  The exception would be if we followed all the rules that permit us to go over the first apron, but S&T’s and MLE signings are out.

You probably won’t be able to use Wood for Thybulle if Wood makes more than the MLE because of BYC from the Portland standpoint (might be overcome as part of some massive Lillard trade, but seems like a lot of trouble for no real benefit).  If Wood makes MLE or under, Portland should just sign him and Dallas should just sign Thybulle.  As much as I want to make this something fancy, the best/easiest play for either is just to sign them (though I wonder if Boston would prefer a S&T at the MLE level to create a TP).  Anything over that and we have to send something to Boston or a third party.

Not that anyone asked, but I like G-Will better than Thybulle. I can see the day when Lively grows into being an average NBA center and we have:

Center: Lively

Wings: OMax, Williams/Green

Creators: Luka/Kyrie/Hardy

You need more size, but the future tight playoff rotation at Wing and Creator is pretty strong. IF you land Williams, I think we are about one player away from being done for awhile with everyone except Kyrie still with some upside ahead of them.

[Jason Terry]

Guys I’m looking at in trade:

Capela- might be too rich for us. I don’t see how we can give them more than max trade spread and the 2030 2nd

Isaac- THJ is a match. I like this as a buy low on a younger guy

DFS- Bullock for DFS makes more sense now to the nets now that Harris has been traded. They can’t tank and need expiring 3pt shooting. Plus they get off long term money

Boucher- Bullock even swap makes sense if we miss out on G Will and sign Thybulle

Zubac, Morris, RoCo- this is my favorite “big” trade team. Makes sense in a Harden trade. A good fallback option if we don’t get Williams

What teams would be interested in Hardaway? It’s obvious he’s being shopped. I would be fine with a bad contract and a 2nd. What are the bad contracts out there?

[Chicagojk]

Not saying I would be on board with this in anyway, but…

I think Minnesota has had a good off-season.  Nice value in the draft, resigned Reid and traded for Morris.  They have continued to make good moves…outside of the huge mistake.

So, it would be a tough pill to swallow to admit mistake on the Gobert trade and just waive goodbye to all those future picks Utah now has.  But if they keep him they run the real risk that Gobert value tanks even more.

So is there a deal that works for Dallas and Minn?  One that just doesn’t crash Dallas cap and one where minn can gain flexibility and players to help now?  

40 million for Gobert is probably too much for them and I though Minn would hold on to him due to all the assets they lost for him.  But you can make a case they have a solid enough roster that they could to look to get out now and continue with the younger players.

[Okstate819]

Guys I’m looking at in trade:

Capela- might be too rich for us. I don’t see how we can give them more than max trade spread and the 2030 2nd

Isaac- THJ is a match. I like this as a buy low on a younger guy

DFS- Bullock for DFS makes more sense now to the nets now that Harris has been traded. They can’t tank and need expiring 3pt shooting. Plus they get off long term money

Boucher- Bullock even swap makes sense if we miss out on G Will and sign Thybulle

Zubac, Morris, RoCo- this is my favorite “big” trade team. Makes sense in a Harden trade. A good fallback option if we don’t get Williams

What teams would be interested in Hardaway? It’s obvious he’s being shopped. I would be fine with a bad contract and a 2nd. What are the bad contracts out there?

The potential of Isaac is still tantalizing. I don't know what the latest is on his health, but the best version of him is literally perfect at the 4 for us.

[HoosierDaddyKid]

https://twitter.com/BobbyMarks42/status/...4061422594





Bobby Marks explains rhe 2nd rnd exception

[KillerLeft]

Not that anyone asked, but I like G-Will better than Thybulle.  I can see the day when Lively grows into being an average NBA center and we have:

Where is the Chuck Norris nodding gif when you need it?