Trade & FA 2023-24: PHX Wants Lebron+Bronny| Jazz to Shop Collins

[ItsGoTime]

I am a week or so behind my podcasts, but I was listening to a bill Simmons podcast and he mentioned a sign and trade for Brooks for Hardaway.  Would you do that?  Would Memphis?  He mentioned some other teams as well.

Naz Reid plus Jarace Walker offseason.  On board?

That would be a significant upgrade to this season, IMO. Figured Walker was gonna be gone by 10, but if there? I’m good coming away with him. There are more and better FA Cs this offseason than PFs too so the trade down for Lively to get Capela too is a bit of a tougher route to get a more complete roster this time around.

[Chicagojk]

That would be a significant upgrade to this season, IMO. Figured Walker was gonna be gone by 10, but if there? I’m good coming away with him. There are more and better FA Cs this offseason than PFs too so the trade down for Lively to get Capela too is a bit of a tougher route to get a more complete roster this time around.

Yeah, Walker probably goes before 10.   I think I saw one mock where he was at #9.   But it is too early to make conclusions.   If Dallas stays at 10, it just takes one team to pass on a player to see that player drop 2-3 spots.   Cam Whitmore?  Anthony Black?  Hendricks?

[ItsGoTime]

Yeah, Walker probably goes before 10.   I think I saw one mock where he was at #9.   But it is too early to make conclusions.   If Dallas stays at 10, it just takes one team to pass on a player to see that player drop 2-3 spots.   Cam Whitmore?  Anthony Black?  Hendricks?

For sure. I like Walker and Hendricks and if they are our take away from the draft, I’ll be fine and take a watch and see approach from it. Other than those 2, I don’t see anyone worth keeping the pick for honestly cause I think there are a few good options to trade up or out, of course if what we think are options are actually options. 

BTW, I think using THJ and nothing else to get Brooks is a really good way to utilize THJ and his contract. As I laid out in the Roster thread, I think we have 4 mostly SGs on the team in THJ, Green, Hardy and Kyrie (when Luka is in). All of them will need a lot of minutes that only Kyrie’s spilling over to the PG position when Luka isn’t in is the only good release valve. I hate the idea of using THJ and Green in the 3 spot (and it’s better to use Luka for the spot he actually holds when on the court even though he can play 1-4) it just puts the roster in a spot that isn’t conducive to winning (bandaid on a bullet wound) IMO.

I understand the hate for Brooks, but he is a really good, tough nosed defender and has been a promising offensive player at one point. The type of offensive game that we don’t have and haven’t had at all from the 3-5 positions in a long time. He’s a reclamation project that is what we have to try to hit on in order to have the most success. I say the reward far outweighs the risk. Let Kidd earn his money with Brooks. 

If we can get him at a starting salary of like $15M, we also cut $2M off our books which could be just enough wiggle room to get both exceptions while not having to fully “disrespect” Kyrie in his offer.

[DallasMaverick]

Everyone sees what they wanna see.

I have to admit, I think most of us are subject to confirmation bias.  We make a decision about a person, a team, a front office, a coach, an owner, based on a small sample size.  And then we see evidence that supports our decision, and tend to ignore or, at least, diminish evidence that contradicts it.

I see this phenomenon every day on my facebook feed, in relation to politics.  Most of my Republican friends think that all Democrats are idiots.  How can they ignore clear evidence?  It must be a lack of mental capacity.

And of course, my Democrat friends can't abide those deplorable, redneck, stupid Republicans.  Can't they even think?  And why don't they even care about the data that's freely available on MSNBC?

So, as time goes by, we become even more cemented in our opinions, and more dismissive of anything that doesn't fit the narrative.

Wood?  Yeah, there's things he does really well.  Is that all you see?  How about the weaknesses? Weighing the pros and cons, is he a guy you want on your team?  At what price?

[ItsGoTime]

Wood?  Yeah, there's things he does really well.  Is that all you see?  How about the weaknesses? Weighing the pros and cons, is he a guy you want on your team?  At what price?

If you’re asking me? I’ve been a, Wood is flawed, guy (so much so, he should come off the bench), it’s just Powell is so much worse and a been there done that didn’t want the tshirt guy as a starter. 

I don’t think it matters what anyone thinks about him being back though. He quickly became been there done that for Kidd and the FO and he himself doesn’t look like he is willing to come back either. With that feeling seemingly mutual, there’s very little left to talk about. I think he’s worth a bit more than full MLE money, but if he becomes picky about where he goes, MLE will probably be it for him. Also, if THJ is gone, it couldn’t hurt to have his offense off the bench.

[omahen]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1007...uns-center

[Ghost of Podkolzin]

Agree with the last sentence.  Agree that you are triggered.  Agree that Powell would be a reasonable backup center.  But, this conversation isn't about Powell.  It is about Wood.   

There is a difference between dismissed and refuted.  You are trying to attribute team success to Wood's starting.  Anytime someone offers something that might explain your number differently, you simply repeat some version of your number.

The competition was crap.  Response: 9-4
The good teams we played were missing players.  Response:  Winning %

The only reason Powell was even brought up was that his minutes in the nine wins were actually more valuable to the wins than Wood's minutes.  If your daughter had a goal of selling $10 worth of Girl Scout cookies and I bought $6 worth and Wood bought $4 worth, who helped her accomplish her goal more.  The answer is Dan the Cookie Man, even if Wood bought the last $4 worth that got her to her goal.  No one here claimed Powell is the answer or even a good starting center.  The fact that you turn so quickly to an anti-Powell argument instead of a new pro-Wood argument (other than some version of 9-4) is pretty telling.  The reason is 9-4 doesn't come close to proving causation.

When the season was on the line, a starting lineup of Luka and Kyrie lost twice to Charlotte.  Ya, Luka and Kyrie are spares.

IMO, the issue wasn't starting or benching Wood.  It was giving him 30-35mins a game.  Agreed that with Luka and Wood on the floor at the same time, you have to have 3 good defenders.  Are you telling me that Kidd can't scheme to give Wood the 12 mins Luka wasn't on the floor, big minutes when Luka didn't play, and scheme together 20 mins of Luka and Wood playing together?  Again, that's what a coach does.  IMO this is 100% on Kidd.

[DanSchwartzgan]

IMO, the issue wasn't starting or benching Wood.  It was giving him 30-35mins a game.  Are you telling me that Kidd can't scheme to give Wood the 12 mins Luka wasn't on the floor, big minutes when Luka didn't play, and scheme together 20 mins of Luka and Wood playing together?  Again, that's what a coach does.  IMO this is 100% on Kidd.

Dallas was 4-11 in games Wood got 30 minutes or more.

[Razzmatazz_Hopskidillydoo]

Dallas was 4-11 in games Wood got 30 minutes or more.

Weak.
Irving played 38 mins per, has a record of 8-12 with the Mavs.38.2

---

 Are you telling me that Kidd can't scheme to give Wood the 12 mins Luka wasn't on the floor, big minutes when Luka didn't play, and scheme together 20 mins of Luka and Wood playing together?  Again, that's what a coach does.  IMO this is 100% on Kidd.

Kidd can't scheme anything, he is just watching games remember?

[DanSchwartzgan]

Weak.

Agreed.  You know why?  I failed to prove Wood was in any way responsible for the Win/Loss record in a select small sample size of games.  

[Ghost of Podkolzin]

Dallas was 4-11 in games Wood got 30 minutes or more.

I'm confused.  Are we using w/l or not?  LOL.  Y'all use it when it backs your case, and denounce it when it doesn't.

---

Weak.
Irving played 38 mins per, has a record of 8-12 with the Mavs.38.2

---

Kidd can't scheme anything, he is just watching games remember?

He certainly does ZERO in game adjustments.

[Ghost of Podkolzin]

Let's talk rebounds. We have the best rebounding point in the league. Must have great rebounding numbers, right? Nope. We were dead last, 30th. Only reason we weren't 31st is that there are only 30 teams in the league.

Who had the best rebounding % on the team? Gotta MVP candidate Luka, right? Maybe Powell because he gets all those minutes. Nope. Wood, and it's not close.

(REB% at least 15mins)
Wood - 14.7
Luka - 12.4
Powell - 11.3
(now, falling off the cliff)
DFS - 7.6
Maxi - 7.4
Kyrie - 7.0
Bullock - 6.2
Green - 6.2
THJ - 6.0
Kemba - 5.4

Oh, and Wood has the same DefRtg as Bullock. Think a real coach could find a way to scheme Wood (who has TWICE the Reb% as Maxi) more minutes?

[Ghost of Podkolzin]

Let's talk rebounds.  We have the best rebounding point in the league.  Must have great rebounding numbers, right?  Nope. We were dead last, 30th.  Only reason we weren't 31st is that there are only 30 teams in the league.

Who had the best rebounding % on the team?  Gotta MVP candidate Luka, right?  Maybe Powell because he gets all those minutes.  Nope.  Wood, and it's not close.

(REB% at least 15mins)
Wood - 14.7
Luka - 12.4
Powell - 11.3
(now, falling off the cliff)
DFS - 7.6
Maxi - 7.4
Kyrie - 7.0
Bullock - 6.2
Green - 6.2
THJ - 6.0
Kemba - 5.4

Oh, and Wood has the same DefRtg as Bullock.  Think a real coach could find a way to scheme Wood (who has TWICE the Reb% as Maxi) more minutes?

Oh, and Wood has the 29th best Reb% in the league...  yet can't get minutes on the worst rebounding team in the league?

What a spare!  We don't need his 40%3pt and 14.7 rebounding rate.  He can take his empty 20/10/2.5 elsewhere.  We have outside shooting bigs and rebounders coming out our arses.

[chaparral]

Happy to know the ghost will be on another board this next season...

[Ghost of Podkolzin]

Happy to know the ghost will be on another board this next season...

Well played!

If I stuck with the Mavs after letting Nash walk (I graduated with him at Santa Clara), I think I can dig deep and get over the Wood fiasco.

[Jym]

Well played!

If I stuck with the Mavs after letting Nash walk (I graduated with him at Santa Clara), I think I can dig deep and get over the Wood fiasco.

And Brunson, and Tyson, and JET, and Tyson again

[IamDougieFresh]

Does anyone else remember when Maxi was coming back and Kidd said “the stats will tell you Wood and Maxi are good together” and proceeded to not play them together or is that just me?

[Jym]

Does anyone else remember when Maxi was coming back and Kidd said “the stats will tell you Wood and Maxi are good together” and proceeded to not play them together or is that just me?

just so many confusing decisions by Kidd 
Especially after DFS left, the only option was to go 2 bigs the majority of the time. That was the only way we were going to win

[SleepingHero]

[SleepingHero]

Does anyone else remember when Maxi was coming back and Kidd said “the stats will tell you Wood and Maxi are good together” and proceeded to not play them together or is that just me?

I do remember that. 

It's funny because I'm sorta with you Dougie that Wood should've been given a bigger chance when he returned from injury. I'm just not convinced that Wood was a difference maker and playing him more would've resulted in more wins. 

I just think, like many others here, that we had to do something different to just try. Kidd wasn't willing to do it (and I can see why he didn't want to). Though, if the ship is sinking and the coach doesn't at least try some hail mary shit to get some water out of the boat, is that better than just accepting the outcome and letting the team continue the status quo?

ANY WHO moving on...

__________

https://twitter.com/ChrisBHaynes/status/...54048?s=20

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1007...uns-center

The Chicago Bulls, Dallas Mavericks, Portland Trail Blazers and Charlotte Hornets are reportedly viewed as potential landing spots for Phoenix Suns center Deandre Ayton in an offseason trade.
ESPN's Tim MacMahon reported Friday that the Suns are likely to "aggressively explore" an Ayton trade, and Ayton "would be excited about a fresh start with another franchise."

Comparing packages here, Mavs KYRIE Chip (I don't have the creativity for an acronym like we used to use in yesteryears) beats out anything these other teams I think would realistically throw out for Ayton.

Portland is desperate, but I don't see a match here unless they're willing to facilitate a Grant SnT deal though that kind of just replaces Aytons overpaid deal with another and doesn't really solve their depth right? Hornets have some valuable assets, but do any of them make sense for a PHX team with a 35 year KD that's all in for the present?

Bulls have Vucevic, Caruso, DeRozan, etc. yet the article blatantly states that the Suns aren't really interested in Vucevic. And I don't see how DeRozan fits on a team with KD+Booker. 

I wonder if a hypothetical Ayton for Depth deal is the best route for all parties. In which case I still think the Mavs have the best mix of role players for a win-now team. Not sure though. Whaddya think?