Trade & FA 2023-24: PHX Wants Lebron+Bronny| Hawks to Shop Hunter

[DanSchwartzgan]

I mean, what would have been if only Powell was starting those games, right? Amirite?

9-8 vs 24-38 that is the mic drop stat between the two. Powell is not the better starter between the two players.

The mic drop stats are that the team was minus with Wood on the floor and plus with Powell on the floor.  The team was plus with Wood off the floor and minus with Powell off the floor.  The gap in game impact is substantial.  All the shiny counting stats don't do a bit of good if you give it up faster at the other end. Wood wasn't even the most impactful C in these nine games a few people want to cling to as some proof they were correct about Wood all along. You are better off trying to make an eye-test argument than a statistical argument.

[ItsGoTime]

The mic drop stats are that the team was minus with Wood on the floor and plus with Powell on the floor.  The team was plus with Wood off the floor and minus with Powell off the floor.  The gap in game impact is substantial.  All the shiny counting stats don't do a bit of good if you give it up faster at the other end.  Wood wasn't even the most impactful C in these nine games a few people want to cling to as some proof they were correct about Wood all along.  You are better off trying to make an eye-test argument than a statistical argument.

Your belief in your numbers is not as strong as mine in mine. End of day, Wood is the better starter in the only stat that matters.

[ItsGoTime]

.529 winning % vs .387.

One % puts us at the 7 seed for the playoffs (playins), the other gets us the 5th worst record in the league and even more lottery balls than we have now. Why, oh why did Kidd have to start Wood over Powell, that bastard!

[IamDougieFresh]

Ah yes. We inch closer to the inevitable. It won't be long now before people start calling for Powell to start again next season.

[ItsGoTime]

From FGump: Or as Mark Twain would say, "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."

This had me rolling, coming from a guy clinging tenaciously to the buttocks of a single stat. (That’s a bastardized quote from the great Ren and Stimpy show)

[ItsGoTime]

Ah yes. We inch closer to the inevitable. It won't be long now before people start calling for Powell to start again next season.

I’ve seen it in Discord already.

[IamDougieFresh]

If people's obsession with being "right" about Wood wasn't so bad, I think we could come to a common ground.

-We were hovering around .500
-Wood got his chance
-Team played well enough to beat some teams (mostly bad)
-Back to trash with y'all's super weird man crush starting

I don't see how we can't all agree that they should have went back to starting Wood. At least give it a chance to see if it would continue working. You don't even have to agree that he is good.

[dirkfansince1998]

If people's obsession with being "right" about Wood wasn't so bad, I think we could come to a common ground.

-We were hovering around .500
-Wood got his chance
-Team played well enough to beat some teams (mostly bad)
-Back to trash with y'all's super weird man crush starting

I don't see how we can't all agree that they should have went back to starting Wood. At least give it a chance to see if it would continue working. You don't even have to agree that he is good.

The one poster that constantly reminds people that he is always "right" complaining about the very same thing. Pure comedy gold.

[ItsGoTime]

I’m right that Wood is a bad choice as a starter. I’m also right that Wood is a better starter than Powell. Powell is a horrible choice to start in this league. If the team would stop relying on him to start, he would be a decent addition to the team.

[dirkfansince1998]

I’m right that Wood is a bad choice as a starter. I’m also right that Wood is a better starter than Powell. Powell is a horrible choice to start in this league. If the team would stop relying on him to start, he would be a decent addition to the team.

You are entitled to your own opinion. DanS provided a legit counter point that you simply dismissed.

[ItsGoTime]

You are entitled to your own opinion. DanS provided a legit counter point that you simply dismissed.

It’s funny that I’m the one who simply dismissed his stat when that is exactly what he did to mine.

Everyone sees what they wanna see.

[dirkfansince1998]

It’s funny that I’m the one who simply dismissed his stat when that is exactly what he did to mine.

Everyone sees what they wanna see.

SleepingHero´s post earned the same dismissive response. You have a strong opinion but it doesn´t look like you actually want to discuss the topic.

[IamDougieFresh]

The one poster that constantly reminds people that he is always "right" complaining about the very same thing. Pure comedy gold.

You got wrinkles?

[ItsGoTime]

SleepingHero´s post earned the same dismissive response. You have a strong opinion but it doesn´t look like you actually want to discuss the topic.

Yep, you’re right about that. I disliked showing the best stretch of the season with the longest winning streak by far that we had for the year and using it as evidence against Wood’s games. It, to me, dismisses all the terrible losses we had while Powell was the starting C (2 Cha losses anyone?) as if there aren’t many to choose from.

You are right, I do need to figure out what about a post triggers me and not insert what I think is common sense into the argument. That does get me in trouble more than I like. I really can’t understand why others can’t see Powell’s body of work as a starter as a complete negative that can never happen again (outside injury issues…and then…maybe).

The reason the record is the best way to track this particular debate is because first, it’s the ultimate team stat for a team game. In 2 years from now, nobody will care why the team came together and fought for eachother during that 13 game stretch that had our best winning streak of the season. We have been a team this year that could have just as easily lost many of those games and not kept the winning streak alive. Was it players being put in their best positions to succeed? What does it matter during a season of so much failure? It happened and wasn’t allowed a chance after.

[DanSchwartzgan]

It’s funny that I’m the one who simply dismissed his stat when that is exactly what he did to mine.

Everyone sees what they wanna see.

Agree with the last sentence.  Agree that you are triggered.  Agree that Powell would be a reasonable backup center.  But, this conversation isn't about Powell.  It is about Wood.   

There is a difference between dismissed and refuted.  You are trying to attribute team success to Wood's starting.  Anytime someone offers something that might explain your number differently, you simply repeat some version of your number.

The competition was crap.  Response: 9-4
The good teams we played were missing players.  Response:  Winning %

The only reason Powell was even brought up was that his minutes in the nine wins were actually more valuable to the wins than Wood's minutes.  If your daughter had a goal of selling $10 worth of Girl Scout cookies and I bought $6 worth and Wood bought $4 worth, who helped her accomplish her goal more.  The answer is Dan the Cookie Man, even if Wood bought the last $4 worth that got her to her goal.  No one here claimed Powell is the answer or even a good starting center.  The fact that you turn so quickly to an anti-Powell argument instead of a new pro-Wood argument (other than some version of 9-4) is pretty telling.  The reason is 9-4 doesn't come close to proving causation.

[ItsGoTime]

What also had me dismissing SH in such a fashion is he went through and found the injured players for the other team, but failed to mention the injuries on our side. Kleber and Green were out the whole stretch while DFS was out for all but 1 game. Bullock and THJ were out for 1 each at separate points as well. For a team with such a poor roster, that was significant.

[ItsGoTime]

The only reason Powell was even brought up was that his minutes in the nine wins were actually more valuable to the wins than Wood's minutes.  If your daughter had a goal of selling $10 worth of Girl Scout cookies and I bought $6 worth and Wood bought $4 worth, who helped her accomplish her goal more.  The answer is Dan the Cookie Man, even if Wood bought the last $4 worth that got her to her goal.  No one here claimed Powell is the answer or even a good starting center.  The fact that you turn so quickly to an anti-Powell argument instead of a new pro-Wood argument (other than some version of 9-4) is pretty telling.  The reason is 9-4 doesn't come close to proving causation.

Actually my daughter had a goal to sell $50 worth of cookies. She went to the Powell residence 62 times and got $24 towards her goal. She went to the Wood residence 17 times and got $9 towards her goal. She wonders why I sent her to Powell’s house so much when she made so much more money per time spent at Wood’s house. I told her, “I’m just a spectator” and you weren’t going to make the goal anyway cause Brunson’s house was not an option anymore.

[DanSchwartzgan]

Actually my daughter had a goal to sell $50 worth of cookies. She went to the Powell residence 62 times and got $24 towards her goal. She went to the Wood residence 17 times and got $9 towards her goal.  

Or in other words....9-4.  Yeah, we all get that you think this is a significant number.

[Chicagojk]

I am a week or so behind my podcasts, but I was listening to a bill Simmons podcast and he mentioned a sign and trade for Brooks for Hardaway. Would you do that? Would Memphis? He mentioned some other teams as well.

Naz Reid plus Jarace Walker offseason. On board?

[ItsGoTime]

Or in other words....9-4.  Yeah, we all get that you think this is a significant number.

Likewise we all know that you think the same of +/-.