Game 12: Dallas (5-6) @ Utah (2-8), 11/14, 8:00 PM

[JamesConway912]

I am open to moving Klay to the bench for more defense but before doing it I’d actually want to see how he plays alongside the other four guys who SHOULD be starters. 

The whole start Gafford thing never made sense for me, it didn’t last year and it has been a lot worse this season.

Via nba.com:

Luka + Klay + PJ + Kyrie

1) with Gafford at C:

ORtg 108,5
DTg 120
NetRtg -11,5

2) with Lively at C:

ORtg 115,9
DRtg 111,5
Net +4,4

Unfortunately for whatever reason the Gafford-lineup has played almost twice as many minutes together than the lineups with Lively at the five.

Once PJ is back that’s the first change I’d implement.

[Mavs2021]

I am open to moving Klay to the bench for more defense but before doing it I’d actually want to see how he plays alongside the other four guys who SHOULD be starters. 

The whole start Gafford thing never made sense for me, it didn’t last year and it certainly hasn’t been a lot worse this season.

Via nba.com:

Luka + Klay + PJ + Kyrie

1) with Gafford at C:

ORtg 108,5
DTg 120
NetRtg -11,5

2) with Lively at C:

ORtg 115,9
DRtg 111,5
Net +4,4

Unfortunately the Gafford-lineup has played almost twice as many minutes together than the lineup with Lively at the five.

Once PJ is back that’s the first change I’d implement.

Gafford plays like sh*t, when coming off the bench. Q.e.d. yesterday with a team worst -19 in just 19 minutes.

Our real problem is that we are very slow and lethargic at guard and forward. That problem was only increased by the additions of Marshall, Dinwiddie and Thompson in place of DJJ and Green. Just pay attention to the pace with which other guards and forwards move on and off the ball. Outside of Kyrie we are SLOW. For that reason alone Gortman should see some action. He can at least do some Josh Green things.

Hardy and Grimes have some speed, but Hardy especially needs to be drilled into 2-3 quick release actions that limit is bad decisions. I honestly don´t think Kidd is good enough to fix this.

They´ll need another mid-season trade and I seriously doubt they have the stones to trade Klay/Kleber for somebody like Simons, so I guess the best we can hope for is something like Schroeder for Kleber.

Also they need to sit Luka till he is healthy. He was -8 yesterday and it would have been a lot worse, if he hadn´t been on the floor as a passenger, when Hardy, Marshall, Grimes and Lively brought the team back from the huge 3rd quarter deficit. I think this team currently has a better chance to win without Luka. The other teams aren´t prepared for it. We become less predictable Kyrie is red-hot and we can finally play faster. That will work for 1-2 weeks.

[ballsrchr]

Welp...I got the poll wrong. I'm batting--pretty bad.

I don't think these losses can be attributed to one single person. The entire team hasn't been hitting on all cylinders yet. I usually blame the coaches more when the finely run basketball machine hasn't been tuned or oil--yet.

I really believed the team was better this year. And I haven't abandoned that belief yet. Does anyone have a timing light? Maybe that would help.

Enough with the crying rag. On to the next game--with San Antonio! That ought to be an easy one...

[ThisIStheYear]

Even the Mavs one good win is pretty suspect now with he TWolves collapsing almost as badly as the Mavs. The Mavs suck.

[Smitty]

Time to panic yet?

Just catching up and reading some of the comments. I'm surprised it wasn't more "the sky is falling" type.

I know it might sound crazy, given the week+ the Mavs just had. But my panic meter is at 2.

I thought the Mavs would start slow; it's a Luka staple. They've had key injuries already, mostly PJ and Lively who are their top 2 defenders. Luka is playing D level bball for his standards and only now do the new guys look like they're finding a groove.

A bounce or two in each of the last 4 and the Mavs are 4-0 during this stretch. Obviously, they did not go 4-0 in those games, and it means they'll be in a position of playing catch-up in the standings like last year, but I expect them to right the ship. 

The ceiling for this team hasn't changed one bit. The floor is currently having key injuries and one possession losses to every team in the league. Morris might have to have a players only meeting a little earlier this year

[HoosierDaddyKid]

Welp...I got the poll wrong.  I'm batting--pretty bad.

I don't think these losses can be attributed to one single person.  The entire team hasn't been hitting on all cylinders yet.  I usually blame the coaches more when the finely run basketball machine hasn't been tuned or oil--yet.

I really believed the team was better this year.  And I haven't abandoned that belief yet.  Does anyone have a timing light?  Maybe that would help.

Enough with the crying rag.  On to the next game--with San Antonio!  That ought to be an easy one...

Utah was supposed to be easy too, how'd that turn out?  No NBA game is easy, we shouldn't be subjected to that type of thinking. Wemby just dropped 50/14, with 8 3's.

[Ghost of Podkolzin]

I said it at the time of the signing that Klay would end up as 6th man.

[JamesConway912]

Gafford plays like sh*t, when coming off the bench. Q.e.d. yesterday with a team worst -19 in just 19 minutes.

Our real problem is that we are very slow and lethargic at guard and forward. That problem was only increased by the additions of Marshall, Dinwiddie and Thompson in place of DJJ and Green. Just pay attention to the pace with which other guards and forwards move on and off the ball. Outside of Kyrie we are SLOW. For that reason alone Gortman should see some action. He can at least do some Josh Green things.

Hardy and Grimes have some speed, but Hardy especially needs to be drilled into 2-3 quick release actions that limit is bad decisions. I honestly don´t think Kidd is good enough to fix this.

They´ll need another mid-season trade and I seriously doubt they have the stones to trade Klay/Kleber for somebody like Simons, so I guess the best we can hope for is something like Schroeder for Kleber.

Also they need to sit Luka till he is healthy. He was -8 yesterday and it would have been a lot worse, if he hadn´t been on the floor as a passenger, when Hardy, Marshall, Grimes and Lively brought the team back from the huge 3rd quarter deficit. I think this team currently has a better chance to win without Luka. The other teams aren´t prepared for it. We become less predictable Kyrie is red-hot and we can finally play faster. That will work for 1-2 weeks.

Agreed that:

1) Gafford sucks off the bench

But that’s a Gafford-problem. He’s playing worse than Lively and the solution can not be to continue to gift him the starting spot despite poor results. It’s on him to make a positive impact off the bench. If he doesn’t you throw in DP / Kleber here and there to create some competition.

2) footspeed has gotten worse but I think adding Lively already helps a lot on that front. So starting him is step 1 before I open up the Klay-thing. 

3) Yes, Gortman needs to get a shot. Even if it’s simply to put some pressure on Dinwiddie and Hardy. Neither has been close to a positive impact player so far. 

So I’d go to these changes first before I open up the can of worms of benching Klay

[SleepingHero]

I am open to moving Klay to the bench for more defense but before doing it I’d actually want to see how he plays alongside the other four guys who SHOULD be starters. 

The whole start Gafford thing never made sense for me, it didn’t last year and it has been a lot worse this season.

Via nba.com:

Luka + Klay + PJ + Kyrie

1) with Gafford at C:

ORtg 108,5
DTg 120
NetRtg -11,5

2) with Lively at C:

ORtg 115,9
DRtg 111,5
Net +4,4

Unfortunately for whatever dumb reason the Gafford-lineup has played almost twice as many minutes together than the lineups with Lively at the five.

Once PJ is back that’s the first change I’d implement.

I think Klay is one of the few bright spots on the team so far. Defense has been better than advertised and he's still a lethal shooter. 

The real issue is that we're missing Lively and PJ. Gafford is just not cutting it right now. He's just always out of position and making dumb mistakes.

[michaeltex]

End of game basket by Collins was inexcusable and Luka's explanation is crap. Why are professionals looking at the bench with a live ball and a tied score? They should know what to do by now. Is Kidd trying to win the game from the coaches box?

I will note that some of the strangest Mav games happen in SLC. Even going back to the Dirk era. Be it officiating, Utah bench players going off, physical play disrupting game flow, weather delays, you name it. I kind of had a little bell ringing in my head that a win last night would be harder than anticipated, but I was hoping to be proven wrong.

[KillerLeft]

Agreed that:

1) Gafford sucks off the bench

But that’s a Gafford-problem. He’s playing worse than Lively and the solution can not be to continue to gift him the starting spot despite poor results. It’s on him to make a positive impact off the bench. If he doesn’t you throw in DP / Kleber here and there to create some competition.

2) footspeed has gotten worse but I think adding Lively already helps a lot on that front. So starting him is step 1 before I open up the Klay-thing. 

3) Yes, Gortman needs to get a shot. Even if it’s simply to put some pressure on Dinwiddie and Hardy. Neither has been close to a positive impact player so far. 

So I’d go to these changes first before I open up the can of worms of benching Klay

I'm on the same page with all of this, except I don't think it's a foregone conclusion that Gafford won't be good off the bench. He's a much better offensive player than defensive, and playing with Luka unlocks his offense, but...bench scoring has been an issue. Maybe he can develop some chemistry with Marshall on the pick and roll? Maybe Hardy or Dinwiddie? Maybe they can stagger Luka/Kyrie's minutes so that Luka still plays with him during a good portion of his minutes? 

IDK, but what's clear to me (I think) is that Lively is a much, much better choice to be the back line defender in any lineup that features Luka, Kyrie AND Thompson, simultaneously. For me, that points rather clearly to the idea that either Thompson or Gafford needs to go to the bench, and since I don't expect them to bench Thompson anytime soon (whether they should or not) and since Lively is clearly a starter-level guy, the choice seems easy.

[ballsrchr]

Utah was supposed to be easy too, how'd that turn out?  No NBA game is easy, we shouldn't be subjected to that type of thinking. Wemby just dropped 50/14, with 8 3's.

I was just spouting a little dry humor...or sarcasm.  Victor Wembyanama--Wemby!--is going to give our centers fits.  Maybe he'll give the entire Mavs team fits.  It will be an interesting game.

[Mavs2021]

I think Klay is one of the few bright spots on the team so far. Defense has been better than advertised and he's still a lethal shooter. 

The real issue is that we're missing Lively and PJ. Gafford is just not cutting it right now. He's just always out of position and making dumb mistakes.

15/4/2 

41/37/100

vs.

14/3/2

40/35/82

That´s Klay 25 vs. THJ 24, with Hardaway playing like sh*t for half the season and taking a lot more dumb shots than Klay. Defense is about equal. I really don´t see where the upgrade is so far. Maybe Luka not being the Marshmallow Man version of himself will unlock Klay, but so far that trade has not improved the team.

Why is DSJ not on the Mavs instead of Dinwiddie. He´s playing 18 MPG averaging 4/1/2 with nearly as many TOs as assists shooting 33/28/70.  DSJ is flat out a better player at this stage and also plays more to our needs of a plus defender, ball handler and passer that can push the pace on the 2nd unit. Who carres if he can´t shoot. Neither can Dinwiddie. If not DSJ than somebody else. People mock and call for Westbrook to retire. He´s still twice the player that Dinwiddie is.

[JamesConway912]

I think Klay is one of the few bright spots on the team so far. Defense has been better than advertised and he's still a lethal shooter. 

The real issue is that we're missing Lively and PJ. Gafford is just not cutting it right now. He's just always out of position and making dumb mistakes.

Bright spot might be a bit too positive for me in regards to Klay (outside of Kyrie no one is to
me) but I agree that he’s been pretty solid everywhere except for offense. I think we’re in the middle of the annual Klay early season shooting slump but everything else has been promising. Of course he looks terrible at times when the shot isn’t falling or when he gets his shot blocked but overall I’m pretty optimistic that they can make it work with him here alongside Luka and Kyrie.

[SleepingHero]

15/4/2 

41/37/100

vs.

14/3/2

40/35/82

That´s Klay 25 vs. THJ 24, with Hardaway playing like sh*t for half the season and taking a lot more dumb shots than Klay. Defense is about equal. I really don´t see where the upgrade is so far. Maybe Luka not being the Marshmallow Man version of himself will unlock Klay, but so far that trade has not improved the team.

Why is DSJ not on the Mavs instead of Dinwiddie. He´s playing 18 MPG averaging 4/1/2 with nearly as many TOs as assists shooting 33/28/70.  DSJ is flat out a better player at this stage and also plays more to our needs of a plus defender, ball handler and passer that can push the pace on the 2nd unit. Who carres if he can´t shoot. Neither can Dinwiddie. If not DSJ than somebody else. People mock and call for Westbrook to retire. He´s still twice the player that Dinwiddie is.

Based on that logic, Luka has been by far and away our best player on the court every single game! 29/8/8! 

Klay's defense and gravity has had a noted impact on this team. Much more than THJ ever had. Odd battle to pick but okay. You'd rather have THJ than Klay? Klay is 3 mil cheaper this year too.

Further, Dinwiddie vs. DSJ probably has more merit to discuss. I'm not married to the idea that Dinwiddie is a permanent piece for this roster. He's been really bad thus far. But we're talking about the 14th man here. Dinwiddie's minutes aren't losing us these games. Offensive rebounding due to lack of box outs. Poor defensive communication. Poor shooting from everyone not named Klay+Kyrie. 

It's a mess. And a lot of it falls on the coach to me, personally.

[Mavs42]

I'm telling you the missing piece is exum. I remember seeing this guy playing at Rico hines gym playing against other pro players a few years ago. This guys foot speed was lightning. He was the fastest player there. When he just plays no restrictions. His speed and attack of the rim is great. Also I seen his highlights from when he was in Europe his dunking was incredible. And he's a great defender and can pass, he has a good iq and is a better shooter now. I hope he comes back in shape and his speed is what I remembered a few years ago. He should be the 6th man!

[HoosierDaddyKid]

I'm telling you the missing piece is exum. I remember seeing this guy playing at Rico hines gym playing against other pro players a few years ago. This guys foot speed was lightning. He was the fastest player there. When he just plays no restrictions. His speed and attack of the rim is great. Also I seen his highlights from when he was in Europe his dunking was incredible. And he's a great defender and can pass, he has a good iq and is a better shooter now. I hope he comes back in shape and his speed is what I remembered a few years ago. He should be the 6th man!

Exum was decent last year, but he too stays hurt a lot. He's hurt now. I'm not completely sold on him either.  I think Grimes has the better upside out of all of them if he can be consistent.

[Mavs42]

Exum was decent last year, but he too stays hurt a lot. He's hurt now. I'm not completely sold on him either.  I think Grimes has the better upside out of all of them if he can be consistent.

Yeah he's a bad run of injuries. But if he's allowed to play and attack. He's better than Grimes I've seen it. And he's a much better athlete.... Luka and Kyrie are the stars of course but let him play that 6th man role and play free. You'll see as well. I know they were scrimmage games that I watched but dude his speed is electric. Grimes is 3&D. Exum can do much more.  In the nba you only have 2 star players usually that are only allowed to play free. Everyone else has to play that role. Let him play free guys I'm telling you. Like when luka or kyrie are having a rest

[Mavs2021]

Based on that logic, Luka has been by far and away our best player on the court every single game! 29/8/8! 

Klay's defense and gravity has had a noted impact on this team. Much more than THJ ever had. Odd battle to pick but okay. You'd rather have THJ than Klay? Klay is 3 mil cheaper this year too.

Further, Dinwiddie vs. DSJ probably has more merit to discuss. I'm not married to the idea that Dinwiddie is a permanent piece for this roster. He's been really bad thus far. But we're talking about the 14th man here. Dinwiddie's minutes aren't losing us these games. Offensive rebounding due to lack of box outs. Poor defensive communication. Poor shooting from everyone not named Klay+Kyrie. 

It's a mess. And a lot of it falls on the coach to me, personally.

He has not played well, but we have to pretend. And there is no gravity or defensive impact. We are always losing the 1st quarter and nobody is giving Klay any special attention. Teams have less problems to stop Luka or the lob game than ever before. We can all blame this on Luka or early pains, but to act like Klay has been some sort of positive revelation so far, when he´s posting career worst PPG and shooting numbers is just disingenuous. Nobody would cut Timmah the same slack.

Dinwiddie plays 18 MPG. Add Hardy´s 13 MPG on a similar level and we are talking about a very significant part of the rotation that has played catastrophic ball. At least Hardy is young and can get better.

Grimes is now up to 2nd best 3pt shooting percentage after Kyrie.

[Chicagojk]

Yeah he's a bad run of injuries. But if he's allowed to play and attack. He's better than Grimes I've seen it. And he's a much better athlete.... Luka and Kyrie are the stars of course but let him play that 6th man role and play free. You'll see as well. I know they were scrimmage games that I watched but dude his speed is electric. Grimes is 3&D. Exum can do much more.  In the nba you only have 2 star players usually that are only allowed to play free. Everyone else has to play that role. Let him play free guys I'm telling you. Like when luka or kyrie are having a rest

I am an Exum fan and was bummed he got hurt.  I have not been impressed with Din at all.  Last year, I wanted more Exum, not less.  I am afraid his body is not suited for big minutes and Kidd’s lack of confidence in him in the playoffs is something.  But I think for the role we need, he is the best fit.  If we assume Gtimes and Marshall is playing 20-25 minutes a night.  I view the backup point as a glue guy who sometimes plays 10 minutes and then sometimes plays 20 when he gets in a grove or you want to rest a player longer.  Exum is a connector and did a lot of the small things last year.  I really don’t even care if he doesn’t look to shoot outside of open threes and layups.  His value is he is good at the small stuff playing off a star.

If the Mavs don’t have confidence in Exum, I would seriously consider releasing Din for a guy like Fultz.  That is probably too spur of the moment but at this point I don’t want him in a big game.