Trade & FA 2023-24: Sexton On the Market? | ORL Likes Hartenstein?

[Jmaciscool]

KillerLeft

“I didn’t make it up, you defined it right there, quite nicely!

You sure have popped up and aggressively poked everybody in the eye a ton this past week. Where were you all season, my guy? I’m starting to think you’re just around to pick fights. 

Where were you even in the first round? You weren’t calling everyone stupid then.”

I didn’t call you stupid. I said you made some shiznet up as if it matters in someway and it doesn’t because it’s made up.
Dallas is contending as is. If they keep the roster as is they will by definition be contenders next year. They don’t need to add anyone to achieve that.

I don't think he made anything up, he's just pointing out that the Mavs were not considered contenders at the beginning of the season or even at the beginning of the playoffs. Most people are surprised at how far the Mavs have advanced because no one expected it. You know, sneaky.

[Smitty]

Interesting tidbit. Mavs are 26-5 with this starting lineup. Good for a 69 win pace. If they do nothing at all I feel good about the team next year. Hardy taking over the THJ role and Omax getting some burn when Maxi is out will be just fine with me.

[SleepingHero]

My Summer Plan

1 Sign DJJ using TxMLE 1+1
2 Trade THJ (plus 2025 1st, lottery protected) for DFS (plus 2026 2nd)
3 Complete roster by keeping Morris and Lawson

Easy peazy

Would be an incredible summer if they retain DJJ on a team friendly deal AND add none other than Dodo to platoon the 2nd unit and to mentor OMAX

Luka/Exum
Kyrie/Green/Hardy
DJJ/DFS/Lawson
PJ/Maxi/Omax/Morris
Gafford/Lively/Powell

Is a crazy roster.

[Luka77]

I love DFS but giving up a first and second for a role player and bench player is a tremendous over pay. Something like two seconds, like the nets got for Royce O'Neal, is more like his value.

The Mavs traded a first for two starters (Gafford and PJW). I doubt they pay that for a backup.

[F Gump]

I love DFS but giving up a first and second for a role player and bench player is a tremendous over pay.  Something like two seconds, like the nets got for Royce O'Neal, is more like his value. 

Read again. That's not the proposed idea.

[Luka77]

Read again. That's not the proposed idea.

Why are the Mavs offering a first when they have second round picks?  This is more of the Mavs giving away their picks and not valuing the draft like they have done in past.

25' is suppose to be a strong draft.  I see no reason to trade it for DFS, a bench player.

[dirkfansince1998]

Love me some DFS but at this point of his career he isn't worth his contract and has little trade value. 31 years old. Solid defender with league average 3-point shooting. Wouldn't give up more than 1-2 2nd round picks for him. Nets should be happy to get out of his contract.

[F Gump]

Why are the Mavs offering a first when they have second round picks?  This is more of the Mavs giving away their picks and not valuing the draft like they have done in past.

25' is suppose to be a strong draft.  I see no reason to trade it for DFS, a bench player.

I think DFS would be a very useful contributor, a significant upgrade from THJ on both ends of the floor. (There are others I like too, and I don't see any of them as likely starters, but rather strong rotation contributors.)

It takes something to get something.

I see value in having a pick each year. It would be hard to find minutes to develop more than 1 new player in a season, with this roster. Mavs have 2 picks in 2025 and none in 2026, and 2026 BKN 2nd may be early in rd 2.

While 2025 should be a better draft class than 2024, it's not considered especially special or deep past the top 10. So far. But it's too early to know what it will look like when it's about to happen - kids can develop, but can also regress from expectations.

I would rather have a pick than not, but don't think a pick in the mid-20s is necessarily one to be hoarded.

The time to improve is now, when on the cusp of title(s), rather than wait for a low pick to develop, if you have a choice at solid talent.

If you have a better idea, share it. Do you want to keep THJ around for another year?

[KillerLeft]

KillerLeft

“I didn’t make it up, you defined it right there, quite nicely!

You sure have popped up and aggressively poked everybody in the eye a ton this past week. Where were you all season, my guy? I’m starting to think you’re just around to pick fights. 

Where were you even in the first round? You weren’t calling everyone stupid then.”

I didn’t call you stupid. I said you made some shiznet up as if it matters in someway and it doesn’t because it’s made up.
Dallas is contending as is. If they keep the roster as is they will by definition be contenders next year. They don’t need to add anyone to achieve that.

Fair enough, my dude. I've just noticed you kicked our front door in about a week ago with a LOT of confidence, and some of your stuff has seemed to me to be designed to make the folks who hang out here all year round (not just when the Mavs are in the WCF) feel silly for ever having any doubt in the team. The truth is that this has been a long, turbulent season, and there were loads of times the Mavs didn't look like a WCF (or even a playoff) team. Some people showing up 15 minutes before the party ends might ease in a little...feel things out.

No worries, though. The more the merrier, and I admire the enthusiasm!

[KillerLeft]

Love me some DFS but at this point of his career he isn't worth his contract and has little trade value. 31 years old. Solid defender with league average 3-point shooting. Wouldn't give up more than 1-2 2nd round picks for him. Nets should be happy to get out of his contract.

I honestly don't know what he's actually worth on the market, I just know BRK was asking two firsts for him back when all those contenders mentioned in the tweet "showed interest." I'm not in a hurry to pez dispense more distant future firsts into the void, either, but who knows, maybe he's available for less this time around.

[F Gump]

Wouldn't give up more than 1-2 2nd round picks for DFS. Nets should be happy to get out of his contract.

Again, I think the proposed price is being misconstrued. Send out a 1st with lots of protection, that presumably should land in the mid 20s, and get back a 2nd in return that should be in the mid-30s. 

In total, only giving up about 10 draft slots, I'm guessing, in order to turn the THJ carcass into a useful player who really fits what the Mavs are doing.

There's a better, more suitable player available for that price?

[mvossman]

I like Dorian, but this probably isn't my favorite THJ/25 trade.  I get that DFS is the rumor of the day and you are simply responding to that.  But, I doubt he starts in front of either of our defensive minded starting wings.  He also blocks the development of OMax as a future Maxi replacement.  OMax needs to get "the Hardy treatment" minutes in the second quarter each game next season.  I personally don't think Dorian's position is necessary should we retain DJJ.

Give me the same plan as you've outlined, but insert the Atlanta Bogdanovic instead.  I'd play him as sixth man.  I'd like a little more offense when either Luka or Kyrie are sitting.  He's great off the ball and good on the ball.  He fits well in a bench lineup with Green, Maxi and Lively (or Gafford).  Hardy and Exum and OMax fight for scraps at the 10th-12th men in the rotation.  BTW, I get that I just did the same thing to Hardy that I'm trying to avoid with OMax (block his path with a player who plays the same position).  I can certainly see the argument that Hardy needs to eventually become more entrenched in the lineup too.  But, I think what BB does is more needed here than what DFS does (but not so much that it is a hill I want to die on).

This conversation about turning THJ/25 into Dorian (or BB) kind of points to the issue I have with trades that just give away THJ (or worse, pay for him to go away).  There is going to be value to a functional veteran on a mid-sized expiring contract combined with a first.  I really hate the idea of giving away that kind of potential path to improvement.  The team had regular season success with Green starting (19-14) and most of that was during the parts of the season we didn't have PJ and Gafford.  Kyrie was also missing for a ton of those Green starts.  If I can use THJ/25 to improve another area enough (like Dorian or Bogdanovic) without hardcapping myself, I'd probably be OK with wishing DJJ the best of luck in his new home.  Jason Timpf mentioned in his video that DJJ is playing like someone who should get a $15mm contract this summer.  Capology isn't his thing, but it only takes one team to agree and he's out of reach anyway.

I would greatly prefer for that pick to go for a younger player, but Bogdan is a really good fit. Regardless I think holding onto DJJ is a higher priority and I really don't think it will cost more than MLE.

[dirkfansince1998]

Again, I think the proposed price is being misconstrued. Send out a 1st with lots of protection, that presumably should land in the mid 20s, and get back a 2nd in return that should be in the mid-30s. 

In total, only giving up about 10 draft slots, I'm guessing, in order to turn the THJ carcass into a useful player who really fits what the Mavs are doing.

There's a better, more suitable player available for that price?

Just really don't like his contract. One of our main concerns in recent discussions is the 2nd apron. An issue that isn't going away in the future. I would prefer a trade that saves more salary. Would prefer to have a little more flexability next summer. Resign Hardy/Exum? Maybe get in position to use the full MLE. In my opinion all of that is more important than whatever DFS can give the Mavs at this point of his career.

[KillerLeft]

Again, I think the proposed price is being misconstrued. Send out a 1st with lots of protection, that presumably should land in the mid 20s, and get back a 2nd in return that should be in the mid-30s. 

In total, only giving up about 10 draft slots, I'm guessing, in order to turn the THJ carcass into a useful player who really fits what the Mavs are doing.

There's a better, more suitable player available for that price?

If it was lottery protected, I'd do it. 

I might not feel that way if I didn't feel like they had the starters in place, but I'm good with where they are now. Chemistry is a big part of the equation, and they have it. Once you have that, you want continuity.

[KillerLeft]

I would greatly prefer for that pick to go for a younger player, but Bogdan is a really good fit.

I think that dude would look about as good as Josh Green here. 

I think Jaden Hardy is about to have the ball in his hands a lot next season, and I think he's ready. I'm with Gump. Give me more long, defense who can shoot off the catch. If they can find someone younger/better/cheaper than DFS, I'm all for it, don't get me wrong.

[mvossman]

I think that dude would look about as good as Josh Green here. 

I think Jaden Hardy is about to have the ball in his hands a lot next season, and I think he's ready. I'm with Gump. Give me more long, defense who can shoot off the catch. If they can find someone younger/better/cheaper than DFS, I'm all for it, don't get me wrong.

Wow, we are on different pages regarding Bogdan.  I think he is a significantly better offensive player than Green.  If nothing else, he will not have a problem pulling the trigger.  I'm not a true believer in Hardy yet.  Getting 10 minutes of run in a couple of playoff games without crapping the bed is nice, but we could really use a legit 6th man, and I am skeptical Hardy will be ready to play that role next season (if ever).

[Luka77]

I think DFS would be a very useful contributor, a significant upgrade from THJ on both ends of the floor. (There are others I like too, and I don't see any of them as likely starters, but rather strong rotation contributors.)

It takes something to get something.

I see value in having a pick each year. It would be hard to find minutes to develop more than 1 new player in a season, with this roster. Mavs have 2 picks in 2025 and none in 2026, and 2026 BKN 2nd may be early in rd 2.

While 2025 should be a better draft class than 2024, it's not considered especially special or deep past the top 10. So far. But it's too early to know what it will look like when it's about to happen - kids can develop, but can also regress from expectations.

I would rather have a pick than not, but don't think a pick in the mid-20s is necessarily one to be hoarded.

The time to improve is now, when on the cusp of title(s), rather than wait for a low pick to develop, if you have a choice at solid talent.

If you have a better idea, share it. Do you want to keep THJ around for another year?

I have stated how I would improve the team.  Moreover, I don't see the value in DFS at the cost of a first.  

I would rather give those minutes off the bench to Omax, next season and let him develop.  I would see DFS as a progress stopper for someone like him.

[KillerLeft]

Wow, we are on different pages regarding Bogdan.  I think he is a significantly better offensive player than Green.  If nothing else, he will not have a problem pulling the trigger.  I'm not a true believer in Hardy yet.  Getting 10 minutes of run in a couple of playoff games without crapping the bed is nice, but we could really use a legit 6th man, and I am skeptical Hardy will be ready to play that role next season (if ever).

Different pages about Hardy then, too. I think he’s almost there.

[mvossman]

Different pages about Hardy then, too. I think he’s almost there.

I hope your right.  That would leave this team with very few holes, especially if Omax brings something to the table.  At that point if you can't dump Timmy with a second round pick then maybe you work with both Timmy (buy out and stretch waive) and DJJ to sign for max we can spend after Timmy dump (maybe 4 for 50?).

[F Gump]

Just really don't like his contract. One of our main concerns in recent discussions is the 2nd apron. An issue that isn't going away in the future. I would prefer a trade that saves more salary. Would prefer to have a little more flexability next summer. Resign Hardy/Exum? Maybe get in position to use the full MLE. In my opinion all of that is more important than whatever DFS can give the Mavs at this point of his career.

"One of our main concerns in recent discussions is the 2nd apron "

Fair point. It may or may not be an issue in 2025. (If that's a concern, it's a real incentive to somehow trade THJ, or even keep him, or perhaps buy him out and hope he signs a nice deal elsewhere that sets off the cap hit, rather than consider a SW where he's dinging the cap for about $5.5M in 2025).

I don't see issues with Exum or DJJ. Exum at maybe $3-5M, DJJ at maybe $8-10M. No MLE being spent (other than DJJ).

I see Hardy as a wild card. His play is so erratic and sometimes just bad. But at times he looks like he might have something. An extension offer in July would be limited to starting at about $2.8M. I might offer that and see what happens. At his current level of play, not sure he's getting more than minimum on his next deal.

At those numbers, you're likely under the 2nd apron in 2025 if you include DFS. The big issues come in 2026.