Trade & FA 2023-24: PHX Wants Lebron+Bronny| Jazz to Shop Collins

[mvossman]

Not the C I like, but would be an upgrade to what the Mavs have.
Could play PF next to Lively.

Olynk for THJ + a second round pick

Jazz has a lot of bigs, even their wings are big.

I would rather have Timmy than Olynk.  I'm curious if Timmy has been in a lot of trade rumors due to his salary being a big filler match or the FO feels the need to move him off the team.  They have been focused on adding high character guys and Tim has always been thought to be in that category, but I wonder if something went down last season.

[BigDirk41]

I would rather have Timmy than Olynk.  I'm curious if Timmy has been in a lot of trade rumors due to his salary being a big filler match or the FO feels the need to move him off the team.  They have been focused on adding high character guys and Tim has always been thought to be in that category, but I wonder if something went down last season.

Personally I just don't see his fit with the current roster and I suspect this will be another Nico move to trade THJ so Kidd can't play him over Hardy/Green. Tim is definitely high character and a good teammate, but I think his time here is done.

[michaeltex]

I would rather have Timmy than Olynk.  I'm curious if Timmy has been in a lot of trade rumors due to his salary being a big filler match or the FO feels the need to move him off the team.  They have been focused on adding high character guys and Tim has always been thought to be in that category, but I wonder if something went down last season.

I've had these same thoughts. Maybe I'm wrong, but he seems like a team guy. He's been the most consistent part of the KP package. He's been moved in and out of the starting lineup multiple times and I don't remember any complaints about playing time or position. His forte is as a 3pt scorer, but he has shown an ability at times to drive to the basket. My perception is that he's an average defender, which may be good enough as DAL upgrades the front court guys. My biggest complaint is he can be very streaky with shooting. Like ice cold for multiple games. Where I'm yelling to get him off the floor. 

I think his dad has had some unkind comments about DAL (and Luka?), but I don't recall anything direct from THJ.

IMO it's not necessarily a negative to start the season with THJ on the team. Everybody understands that there are still team improvements to make and that his declining contract can be an attractive trade incentive. But maybe he's here until closer to the TDL, who knows?

[Dundalis]

Really don't think G Williams is gonna be playing much SF at all, and for the same reason I think the Mavs are likely out on PJ Washington

I would probably agree, but if Williams can guard Devin Booker well he can play the 3. Williams and Washington probably aren't the best fit together, but I feel like it can work. You also have two guys on the floor who can hypothetically guard 3-5. Depending on what happens with the 5 spot that could be very handy. You can easily adjust their minutes for matchup specific situations. If guys like Allen or  Gafford or someone of equivalent quality simply can't be had, I'd go after PJ Washington and sign the best 5 or equivalent available with the MLE (or even just rolling with what we have if there's nothing of interest) rather than for example just settling for a Nurkic type. I think you can hold up just fine with Pj Washington and the current center rotation until maybe the deadline to try and grab someone you actually want that might be more available. The rebounding would be terrible, but it was terrible in 21/22 when we had a top 10 defense, but our perimeter defense will be better than it was then and our offense would be better too.

[surfpuckmd]

I think there might be a way to get that one done. Only…is there even still time to make RFA offers?

---

Btw, I won’t tip anyone else if I’m right about this, but are a couple of the letters in your tag more important than the others?

There is time to make a RFA offer until another team offers first or Reed and the 76ers agree on a new contract.  

The Sixers just resigned Montrezl Harrell so now have two capable backups behind Embiid as they also have Mo Bamba.

I wrote a long post a few days ago about how Reed was the ideal acquisition for our MLE even above Grant Williams.  I didn't believe it would be possible to obtain both.

Now that we have Grant Williams, I think Reed fits in with our roster even more perfectly.  He and Grant Williams compliment each other perfectly.  It really is meant to be.  His weakness is outside shooting and he provides no spacing at all.  Grant Williams' best skill is 3-point shooting.  Williams is a below-average rebounder and provides little rim protection.  Paul Reed is a very strong rebounder and shot blocker.  

Perfect fit for this current roster and only 24 years old.  

BBPaul will save us all!

[KillerLeft]

There is time to make a RFA offer until another team offers first or Reed and the 76ers agree on a new contract.  

The Sixers just resigned Montrezl Harrell so now have two capable backups behind Embiid as they also have Mo Bamba.

I wrote a long post a few days ago about how Reed was the ideal acquisition for our MLE even above Grant Williams.  I didn't believe it would be possible to obtain both.

Now that we have Grant Williams, I think Reed fits in with our roster even more perfectly.  He and Grant Williams compliment each other perfectly.  It really is meant to be.  His weakness is outside shooting and he provides no spacing at all.  Grant Williams' best skill is 3-point shooting.  Williams is a below-average rebounder and provides little rim protection.  Paul Reed is a very strong rebounder and shot blocker.  

Perfect fit for this current roster and only 24 years old.  

BBPaul will save us all!

Is he a pick and roll guy? A screener? Vertical spacer?

[Winter]

Is he a pick and roll guy? A screener? Vertical spacer?

I don't think he's a finished product. That's my only problem with him. He's still got a learning curve on offense. 

I love his energy and athleticism, but I'm not sure he makes sense here yet. It might be a gamble.

[Dundalis]

There is time to make a RFA offer until another team offers first or Reed and the 76ers agree on a new contract.  

The Sixers just resigned Montrezl Harrell so now have two capable backups behind Embiid as they also have Mo Bamba.

I wrote a long post a few days ago about how Reed was the ideal acquisition for our MLE even above Grant Williams.  I didn't believe it would be possible to obtain both.

Now that we have Grant Williams, I think Reed fits in with our roster even more perfectly.  He and Grant Williams compliment each other perfectly.  It really is meant to be.  His weakness is outside shooting and he provides no spacing at all.  Grant Williams' best skill is 3-point shooting.  Williams is a below-average rebounder and provides little rim protection.  Paul Reed is a very strong rebounder and shot blocker.  

Perfect fit for this current roster and only 24 years old.  

BBPaul will save us all!

He's not a starter though at this point. If he was more of a 4 I'd be a bit more onboard, but I'm not sure we can afford a guy who's still a bit of a project at the 5 spot when we already have one plus a bunch of guys who we don't really want to play many minutes. I think any 5 you bring in needs to be able to play big minutes as the starter, or it's not worth it. Might as well get another big defensive wing and look to get the stop gap 5 later. I do like him though.

[surfpuckmd]

Is he a pick and roll guy? A screener? Vertical spacer?

He's raw on offense.  He can be a lob threat and is a really good offensive rebounder. 

He has played with James Harden the last few years so has experience setting screens but still learning to execute the pick and roll.  His minutes and production improved toward the end of the season as he became less of an offensive liability.

He played pretty well as a starter in the playoffs when Embiid was out.

He would be a step down from Dwight Powell offensively but a big upgrade on defense and rebounding.  We'd be hoping for some improvement offensively in his time here.  

I think he brings energy, defense, athleticism and rebounding.  He is exactly what we need.

Jarett Allen is a better player but would require a lot more assets to bring in.  The proposed trades on this board are not realistic.  It would require either Hardy or Josh Green plus our 2027 1st to bring in Jarrett Allen.  

I think we'd be better off signing Paul Reed then letting the season play out.  We could reassess near the trade deadline when there will be more sellers than there are this summer.

[RoyTarpleysGhost]

The Mavs have brought in 4 different centers in the last 2 years. Stein says as recently as 2 days ago THEY HAVE TO upgrade the center position.

https://twitter.com/mavsfilmroom/status/...21857?s=46&t=vJVRjsNMIspCGYJu_TpvwA

people: Oh yeah Dwight Powell is definitely the starter. So psyched. It's too late to make trades. Only 3.5 months left until opening day.

I'm usually in lock step with @killerleft but this particular issue is seriously blowing my mind. The only way they dont upgrade center is if they dont want to include Hardy, Green, or the 27 1st and it's impossible to make a move without those assets.

[surfpuckmd]

He's not a starter though at this point. If he was more of a 4 I'd be a bit more onboard, but I'm not sure we can afford a guy who's still a bit of a project at the 5 spot when we already have one plus a bunch of guys who we don't really want to play many minutes. I think any 5 you bring in needs to be able to play big minutes as the starter, or it's not worth it. Might as well get another big defensive wing and look to get the stop gap 5 later. I do like him though.

If he were an established starter, we probably couldn't afford him for part of the MLE.  He would play 20-25 minutes per game here and likely platoon with Dwight.  He would start here.  Dwight would come in with the Luka lineups when Kyrie sits.

[loki]

Reed can't play the 4 next to any of our current centers unless he learns how to shoot.

[Kidnova]

If he were an established starter, we probably couldn't afford him for part of the MLE.  He would play 20-25 minutes per game here and likely platoon with Dwight.  He would start here.  Dwight would come in with the Luka lineups when Kyrie sits.

I'd love it as long as they find a way to dump McGee and/or Holmes.

[Dundalis]

The Mavs have brought in 4 different centers in the last 2 years.  Stein says as recently as 2 days ago THEY HAVE TO upgrade the center position.

people:  Oh yeah Dwight Powell is definitely the starter.  So psyched.  It's too late to make trades.  Only 3.5 months left until opening day.

I'm usually in lock step with @killerleft but this particular issue is seriously blowing my mind.  The only way they dont upgrade center is if they dont want to include Hardy, Green, or the 27 1st and it's impossible to make a move without those assets.

I think it's critical to upgrade at center, but I also do believe it's possible to reinforce your perimeter defense to an extent to where rim protection is much less of an issue. Again, we had a top 10 defense in 21/22 with no real rim protection or rebounding. We did it purely with perimeter defense. I think it's within the realms of possibility they end up going this route while still looking to upgrade at the 5 but not being able to until the TDL mid season. Depending on who they bring in I could be ok with that scenario playing out. If for example my choice was only one of PJ Washington or someone like Nurkic, I'd get PJ and wait for something better at the TDL. Hopefully they can pull out something off for one of the good young centers we've been linked with though.

[Dundalis]

If he were an established starter, we probably couldn't afford him for part of the MLE.  He would play 20-25 minutes per game here and likely platoon with Dwight.  He would start here.  Dwight would come in with the Luka lineups when Kyrie sits.

Maybe, but its small sample size of him starting. It's a risk. Have seen plenty of very low minutes role players getting starts for a handful of games while looking really good only to have their weaknesses exposed when getting significantly more minutes for an extended period of games.

Him, Powell, Lively, Holmes and McGee on the roster would also be a problem. I guess I could see it as long as we make another move.

[KillerLeft]

The Mavs have brought in 4 different centers in the last 2 years.  Stein says as recently as 2 days ago THEY HAVE TO upgrade the center position.

https://twitter.com/mavsfilmroom/status/...21857?s=46&t=vJVRjsNMIspCGYJu_TpvwA

people:  Oh yeah Dwight Powell is definitely the starter.  So psyched.  It's too late to make trades.  Only 3.5 months left until opening day.

I'm usually in lock step with @killerleft but this particular issue is seriously blowing my mind.  The only way they dont upgrade center is if they dont want to include Hardy, Green, or the 27 1st and it's impossible to make a move without those assets.

I just think any one of those assets, let alone all of them, is too crucial to the building of this thing to give them up for a guy to fill a role earmarked for the guy you just drafted. I think part of it is that I’m higher on Lively than you are, but I’m also more than fine with taking the risk that this might be another rough season. All I care about now is that the team has a plan and is actually getting better.

[dirkfansince1998]

Even though it was reported on day one of free agency Saric still hasn´t signed a contract with the Warriors. Would be a good rotation piece for the PF/C bullpen. Could play next to any other Mavs big. Can also play small ball center.

[DanSchwartzgan]

Conspiracy Theory Alert:

Probably the most commonly held belief about Lillard to Miami is that Brooklyn will be the third team and give up a pick and take on Herro.  Herro removed Miami from his social media and has been quoted as saying he’s ending up with the Nets.  The idea is Brooklyn would add a pick to the two picks Miami can give and Brooklyn would end up with a starting lineup of Dinwiddie/Herro/Bridges/Cam and Claxton (not too bad).  They’d have to send salary to Portland with the likely outgoing being DFS and O’Neale.  

Did we just gum that up with the offer sheet to Thybulle, basically forcing a change in the deal?  Aaron Goodwin only has four active clients and Lillard and Thybulle are two of them.  If Portland acquires DFS and expiring O’Neale, do they pay Thybulle?  Maybe Portland was in on it (it was VERY publicly ‘rumored’ and they did match very quickly).  Maybe they felt cornered into what Brooklyn was pushing and Nico threw them a lifeline.  It is pretty clear to me that Miami and Dame will eventually get what they want, but Portland can legitimately fight off an O’Neale offer if they are paying Thybulle $10mm.

So, how does Dallas enter into this.  Some will immediately jump on Dorian or even O’Neale (and those aren’t bad).  But, if I’m Nico and I’m working back channel with Portland, I’m telling them I’ll give you another first if I can end up with Claxton and Jovic with McGee outgoing.  Now that is a deal I can get behind giving up the 2027 unprotected first for.  Claxton is our young rim-protecting mobile big.  But, he’s a flight risk.  Jovic is the compensation for that risk.  Who plays center in Brooklyn?  Portland forces them to take two years of Nurkic and McGee ends up in tanking Portland.  We can muck this up 100 different ways, but the simple version is:

Miami:  Lillard
Portland:  DFS/Robinson/McGee 2xMiami firsts, 1xDallas first and 1x Brooklyn first
Dallas:  Claxton/Jovic
Brooklyn: Herro/Nurkic

I think Dallas and Miami are quite pleased.  Portland gets the four firsts they want and DFS is a decent fit.  The issue might be Brooklyn.  Claxton is a flight risk for them too and they seem to value Herro.  It was fairly clear in the playoffs that Claxton didn’t have the size to hang with the beasts of the east.  So, maybe Brooklyn would value Nurkic.  Or maybe the first from Brooklyn has to be adjusted.  I won’t get into all of the other variations, but this is my conspiracy theory as to why we did Thybulle like we did, why we don’t seem to be too worried about moving McGee and why nothing is happening right now (we have to wait for Lillard to Miami).

[surfpuckmd]

Maybe, but its small sample size of him starting. It's a risk. Have seen plenty of very low minutes role players getting starts for a handful of games while looking really good only to have their weaknesses exposed when getting significantly more minutes for an extended period of games.

Him, Powell, Lively, Holmes and McGee on the roster would also be a problem. I guess I could see it as long as we make another move.

It's definitely a risk.  I think we've also made risky free agent acquisitions in the past and most of those haven't worked out.  We've often gambled on older veterans who have started to decline hoping to squeeze out a few solid seasons from them.  That generally hasn't worked well either. 

I hope they'll begin to take risks on younger players who have more potential to improve.  I think Grant Williams is an illustration of that approach.  I think Seth Curry is an example of the former approach.

Reed is the best fit among the available free agents for our current roster. 

If he signs elsewhere, I think Derrick Jones Jr is probably the only player remaining who would be in our rotation and provide some positive minutes.

[Chicagojk]

The Mavs could really have the perfect center grouping...Ok that is a stretch and a lot is tbd.

Powell is an excellent third center. A guy who may not be in the rotation every game but can fill in when needed. He played big minutes for good teams and will be ready when his name is called due to foul trouble, injury or rest.

Lively is your young developmental big but will have real minutes to develop and grow this year. Let him do the things he is good at while slowly growing the other parts of his game.
Hopefully either later in the year or next year he will be ready for a bigger role.

Kleber is a very good fill in at center. Especially when this team spreads teams out. The issues are rebounding and him being able to stay healthy. Therefore, you have to be careful how much you use him.

The question is Holmes. He is the reason why we may be set at center short term vs us needing another player. If he can play 20-25 minutes a night and be productive, I think we are fine short term at center. If he no longer can do this, then this stretches our other players and limits their effectiveness.