Will Seasoned Veteran Porzingis Outplay Rookie Lively?

[Jakeospikez]

Don't think I agree with KP being at the bottom of that pyramid. He's the wildcard but if he's healthy he's up higher. I guess if he is injured yet again he's even lower.

[The Jom]

If KP were on our team and DL on the Celtics??? I’d put money on Boston. Lively and Horford would be the best center tandem in the league. But that’s probably a homer take.

[KillerLeft]

If KP were on our team and DL on the Celtics??? I’d put money on Boston. Lively and Horford would be the best center tandem in the league. But that’s probably a homer take.

No, I'm right there with you. 

Most of the hope I have in this series (other than belief in Luka and Kyrie, obvs) is based on the fact that Porzingis is on Boston's roster. The remainder of it is based on Lively being on the Mavs' roster.

[audiosway]

Nope, I think we all hope Lively will continue to be a huge positive in this series, as he has been in all the previous series. 

If he’s not better than Porzingis, maybe not scoring wise, but on defense, the Mavs are in some trouble here.

I think Gafford is going to beat Porzingis down pretty quickly. Lively is so active with his hands that I see him getting after Horford pretty good. I love how people keep talking about how Dallas is in trouble if KP is healthy and that Dallas hasn't seen anything like KP so far.

They didn't watch the Minny series I guess where KAT came in firing and pretty much got shut down. Naz Reid had a couple of good games and then he got put away as well.

KP can't handle banging in the post. He also is very hesitant to say he's healthy.

I'm pretty excited to see how Dallas' bigs play in this series.

[Chicagojk]

I can think of 10 keys to what might decide the series, but I think KP and Lively is one of the biggest ones. KP has been great in Boston this year. He has fit in and has really morphed his game to make that team unstoppable at times.

With that being said, I want to really test him. Especially coming off injury. I hope we don't bleed with the Gafford minutes. Just 3-4 minute runs. Probably between 18-20 minutes per game. I want him to be forceful in those minutes though. Hopefully we don't get bombed with threes in his minutes. It will be a challenge though. It is with Lively that we will need to make our runs. I want to attack Porzingis when we are on defense and Lively needs to make it really tough for the Celtics when a wing or guard is on him.

I think stat wise Lively will probably be outpaced by Porzingis, but can Lively do all those winning things that he does to help out the Mavs? If the Celtics get the KP they had during the regular season, I am just not sure the Mavs are beating this team.

Again, there are probably 10 other keys to the series, but this is a big one.

[audiosway]

I can think of 10 keys to what might decide the series, but I think KP and Lively is one of the biggest ones.  KP has been great in Boston this year.  He has fit in and has really morphed his game to make that team unstoppable at times.   

With that being said, I want to really test him.    Especially coming off injury.  I hope we don't bleed with the Gafford minutes.  Just 3-4 minute runs.    Probably between 18-20 minutes per game.  I want him to be forceful in those minutes though.  Hopefully we don't get bombed with threes in his minutes.  It will be a challenge though.  It is with Lively that we will need to make our runs.  I want to attack Porzingis when we are on defense and Lively needs to make it really tough for the Celtics when a wing or guard is on him.   

I think stat wise Lively will probably be outpaced by Porzingis, but can Lively do all those winning things that he does to help out the Mavs?  If the Celtics get the KP they had during the regular season, I am just not sure the Mavs are beating this team. 

Again, there are probably 10 other keys to the series, but this is a big one.

I agree that I want to run at KP hard. Get physical with him. He usually wilts under that. He's too small and will get frustrated.

[KillerLeft]

I think stat wise Lively will probably be outpaced by Porzingis, but can Lively do all those winning things that he does to help out the Mavs?  If the Celtics get the KP they had during the regular season, I am just not sure the Mavs are beating this team.  

I'm not so sure about Porzingis outpacing Lively, stat wise. 

Scoring? Maaaayyyybe, but it's important to remember that KP's shots, makable as they might be for him, will be tougher, like the type Luka, Kyrie, Tatum and Brown take. And, he won't have the ball in his hands much unless the Mavs dictate that he does. His offense is basically there so that teams can't have the switches they want (or he'll post them) and so he'll hold a defender at the perimeter. If he's successful, Dallas can easily just not help off of him and not switch certain players onto him (though it might come at a very high cost in terms of guarding whomever DOES get the ball). Still, if KP is scoring a lot, I'd say that's advantage Mavs unless it's on insane efficiency, because that means fewer shots for Tatum/Brown. On the other side, all of Lively's shots will be dunks, and if the Mavs get their way, he'll be directly involved in the offense, like a lot. 

Rebounding? Nah, Lively will cream KP in this category, I believe, especially if Tatum is guarding him. Tatum is a good rebounder, better than Washington, probably, but I like PJ or Kleber's chances to win rebounds from Porzingis or Horford more than I like Tatum's chances to rebound effectively against Lively/Gafford. 

Defense? I have literally no doubt that Lively will be a more disruptive defender than Porzingis, and would say that even without the injury. Now? Coming off that injury? I expect Porzingis to be one of the biggest defensive liabilities on the floor. The Mavs should be able to do to KP what Boston is going to do to Gafford. But, I have hope they won't be able to do it to Lively. And hey, if they can, there's always Kleber. 

The more I hear/read about this series, the less I expect an actual, direct matchup between KP and Lively, but I think Dan had the general right of things the other day. Lively has to outplay Porzingis, and if he doesn't, that doesn't bode well for our Mavs, I don't think. That's fine with me, because I sold every inch of land I owned on KP island years ago.

[KillerLeft]

I agree that I want to run at KP hard. Get physical with him. He usually wilts under that. He's too small and will get frustrated.

Several Celtics people and Jason Timpf are predicting that Porzingis and Horford will be matched up with PJ Washington, maybe not to start in game 1, but pretty quickly. Apparently, that's their go-to strategy to get around the 1-5 pick and roll. The idea is to force Dallas to run that action with Washington with a big (guarded by Tatum) in the dunker spot. 

The key is: Can PJ hit the dozens of open threes Boston is going to concede to him? If not, Luka will be driving into a 2 on 2 (with Boston's two longest defenders) rather than a 2 on 1. 

On the other hand, if/when Kleber is in at the 5, then I expect either Porzingis or Horford WILL guard him. If not, they're letting PJ get downhill against Porzingis.. Not ideal for Dallas, but far, far less ideal for Porzingis, imho.

[Chicagojk]

Not KP Focused but good Lively video


https://youtu.be/PlcepZ0eqTE?si=Eb-fOa0zFpaDia8X

[Arioch]

I stayed on Porzingis island right up until the day he was traded, and wished him well when he left.

But Porzingis coming back after being off for weeks with an injury that is apparently not fully healed yet? He will be rusty, he will be tentative, he will be out of rhythm. And faced with a steady banging diet of Lively/Gafford (who *both*, as pointed out, actually have more playoff experience than he does and at higher pressure, the WCF, than he has ever faced) he is not going to be able to get into rhythm. It won't be as bad as Holmgren--since the Celtics can spell him out with Horford and he's surrounded by a much better team--but I expect it will be in the same neighborhood.

[GATA]

KP is going to tear our big guy to shreds.

[audiosway]

KP is going to tear our big guy to shreds.

Just game 1 and he came out and got hot quick. They took him away after the first quarter. Really when you look at game 1 and take away the 17 points that Dallas allowed them to get ahead quick in the first quarter and it's a 1 point loss. I toss a lot of that first quarter up to jitters from the young guys, Ky didn't play well at all, KP hit a couple of easy shots and got hot, etc. 

Kidd started finding some stuff that was working well after halftime to build on. They have some things to clean up for sure. Kidd never wins game 1 outside of the Minny series. Dallas was down 31 to the Clippers in game 1 and 25 to OKC in game 1. It is what it is. Not to worry.

Lively will actually fair well against KP I think. They need to change the rotations to make sure that they can get PJ back to the corner 3 instead of the top of the key. Get some easy looks for the role players to get them comfortable and get some assists going. The ball was stagnate too much tonight.

[RGP1981]

Although the Mavs have been extremely pleased with the performance of rookie center Derrick Lively, in the finals he's going up against one time All-Star Kristaps Porzingis, one inch taller and seven NBA seasons more experienced.

One Celtics fan downplayed Lively's impact:
He ha"He
"He hasn't had a huge impact, that's disingenuous.  8 and 8 is not a huge impact.  Unless you measure impact as catching and finishing 3 lobs per game."

Am I guilty of overt homerism thinking the center matchup will be a plus for the Mavs?

Did you start this thread as bait or to collect post-finals quotes? You're wicked.

[Chicagojk]

Kidd started finding some stuff that was working well after halftime to build on. They have some things to clean up for sure. Kidd never wins game 1 outside of the Minny series. Dallas was down 31 to the Clippers in game 1 and 25 to OKC in game 1. It is what it is. Not to worry.

Were we down by that much in both game 1's?  Wow...I know we got spanked but I didn't know we got down that bad.   Last night felt a little different though.

[KillerLeft]

Were we down by that much in both game 1's?  Wow...I know we got spanked but I didn't know we got down that bad.   Last night felt a little different though.

Yeah, that is encouraging information for me, because I was unable to watch both of those game ones. So, this was the first real heartbreak I have experienced in this postseason. Knowing that they were down to the clippers by 31 at some point in any game of that that series… that helps.

[audiosway]

Yeah, that is encouraging information for me, because I was unable to watch both of those game ones. So, this was the first real heartbreak I have experienced in this postseason. Knowing that they were down to the clippers by 31 at some point in any game of that that series… that helps.

Dallas vs OKC game 1 was OKC 117 - Dallas 95. Much worse than Game 1 of the Finals. I expected this for game 1. Especially, with guys that had never played in the finals. Boston had something to prove.

KP will not be great in game 2 like he was in game 1. Dallas pretty well had him contained the rest of the way as far as scoring. There were some shotty ref calls and a couple of travel calls that blew the momentum they had built. They tried to launch a comeback but they never recovered from that punch in the mouth in the first quarter.

I've said this a couple of times that although it looked so dominant by Boston it was just the first quarter. That game was over when the 2nd started. That little KP run did them in. He never plays great games back to back. I also expect to see a lot of physical bumping with him trying to rough him up on picks and general movement. He can't take that for long. He will either wear down or get frustrated and start making mistakes. Take away that 17 point lead from the first and it's a 1 point game.

Mavs will win game 2. Ky has to play better. It's going to be a tough series for him. Jrue is a great defender. White is very good. KY just needs to get his mind calmed so he's not missing open shots. Look for more movement from the Mavs to start getting guys away from 1 on 1 and Luka to start trying to force double teams by driving the lane continually through the pick and roll. That's what will open up the offense again.

[HoosierDaddyKid]

Just game 1 and he came out and got hot quick. They took him away after the first quarter. Really when you look at game 1 and take away the 17 points that Dallas allowed them to get ahead quick in the first quarter and it's a 1 point loss. I toss a lot of that first quarter up to jitters from the young guys, Ky didn't play well at all, KP hit a couple of easy shots and got hot, etc. 

Kidd started finding some stuff that was working well after halftime to build on. They have some things to clean up for sure. Kidd never wins game 1 outside of the Minny series. Dallas was down 31 to the Clippers in game 1 and 25 to OKC in game 1. It is what it is. Not to worry.

Lively will actually fair well against KP I think. They need to change the rotations to make sure that they can get PJ back to the corner 3 instead of the top of the key. Get some easy looks for the role players to get them comfortable and get some assists going. The ball was stagnate too much tonight.

I agree with some of this, but you're forgetting that KP is a much better shooter than Lively. KP can make shots from the elbow, from 3, and he can put it on the floor to drive to the hoop. Lively is dependent on someone else setting him up for dives and lobs to the rim. Same with Gafford. Neither can create they're own shot. KP can. Dallas has to find a way to get them involved if Boston keeps taking away the corner 3's. I'm sure Kidd will come up with a new wrinkle.

[audiosway]

I agree with some of this, but you're forgetting that KP is a much better shooter than Lively. KP can make shots from the elbow, from 3, and he can put it on the floor to drive to the hoop. Lively is dependent on someone else setting him up for dives and lobs to the rim. Same with Gafford. Neither can create they're own shot. KP can. Dallas has to find a way to get them involved if Boston keeps taking away the corner 3's. I'm sure Kidd will come up with a new wrinkle.

He's a better shooter but he's inconsistent. He'll have a game like this and come out and play like crap. That's his MO. Used to frustrate me in Dallas because he would have a lights out game then disappear for a week. He would put the ball on the floor and his dribble is so long it was easy to steal.

They need to get Gafford and Lively moving more on offense without the ball. Make KP either chase them in Lively's case or get bumped around by Gafford.

They need to also work on getting switches so that PJ is in the corner for the 3. Having him up at the top of the key for the 3 is not going to work.

Getting Luka and Ky touching the paint several times early in the game will start forcing a double by Boston to open up players on the outside. Those 2 have to touch the paint.

[Chicagojk]

They need to get Gafford and Lively moving more on offense without the ball. Make KP either chase them in Lively's case or get bumped around by Gafford.

Supposedly Horford is starting again tonight.   

I believe the issue about the above is Boston is trying to put a wing on Gafford and Lively to try to impact our rim running.    I do wonder if we try to force PJ (with white on him) and Gafford (with Tatum on him) in the paint early tonight.    Play with force and try to get White and Tatum to guard the basket.

[RoyTarpleysGhost]

This thread was a premonition.