Trade & FA 2023-24: PHX Wants Lebron+Bronny| Jazz to Shop Collins

[dirkfansince1998]

Have you seen our roster????  The core of our valuable players ready to play now is all guards (Kyrie, Green, Hardy) with Luka as a Point Forward.  Lively is 3 years out from being a starter on a championship team.  What you are proposing is a Luka exit plan.

Paying Green crazy money would be a huge mistake.  IMO, we need to move him for a like talent with production that better fits our needs...  Z.Collins.

Mavs made the WCF with Kleber/Powell. Kleber is still on the roster and the Mavs didn´t draft someone with the 12th pick to bench him for the entire season. Lively will get some minutes. Maybe they think that Holmes can resurrect his career. Maybe they need another guy for 10-20 minutes (Saric, Wagner, even Powell are more than enough for a role like this) but with limited assets they cannot overpay on one position as long as they still have holes in other areas.

There is no perfect fix all solution for all positions. Too many holes. Not enough assets. Going to take some time to undo the damage of past trades/offseasons. Mavs used the most valuable asset they had to draft a young big. Don´t think they can afford to invest even more valuable assets (giving up a young player like Green, use MLE) into the center position.

[mvossman]

Have you seen our roster????  The core of our valuable players ready to play now is all guards (Kyrie, Green, Hardy) with Luka as a Point Forward.  Lively is 3 years out from being a starter on a championship team.  What you are proposing is a Luka exit plan.

Paying Green crazy money would be a huge mistake.  IMO, we need to move him for a like talent with production that better fits our needs...  Z.Collins.

I think folks need to calm down on the paying Green crazy money bit.  Somebody posted one speculation and now everybody is worried that Green is about to get 70 mil.  My guess is he will probably get extended in the MLE range, which is a perfectly reasonable price.  Worst case he gets to restricted free agency.  He is not the kind of player that teams will overbid for knowing that Mavs will probably have to match anyways.

[DanSchwartzgan]

I think folks need to calm down on the paying Green crazy money bit.  Somebody posted one speculation and now everybody is worried that Green is about to get 70 mil.  My guess is he will probably get extended in the MLE range, which is a perfectly reasonable price.  Worst case he gets to restricted free agency.  He is not the kind of player that teams will overbid for knowing that Mavs will probably have to match anyways.

I think the Naz Reid contract is a good model for Josh.

[Ghost of Podkolzin]

Mavs made the WCF with Kleber/Powell. Kleber is still on the roster and the Mavs didn´t draft someone with the 12th pick to bench him for the entire season. Lively will get some minutes. Maybe they think that Holmes can resurrect his career. Maybe they need another guy for 10-20 minutes (Saric, Wagner, even Powell are more than enough for a role like this) but with limited assets they cannot overpay on one position as long as they still have holes in other areas.

There is no perfect fix all solution for all positions. Too many holes. Not enough assets. Going to take some time to undo the damage of past trades/offseasons. Mavs used the most valuable asset they had to draft a young big. Don´t think they can afford to invest even more valuable assets into the center position.

Talk about a straw man.  When did I say to bench Lively all year?  My comment was he is at least 3 years away from being a starter on a championship team.

The second part puzzles me.  We used a draft pick that would have gone elsewhere had we not tanked.  You make it sound like we mortgaged our future for Lively.  He is a plus to what we have last year, without a minus in assets out.

All that said, Luka has a player option in 2026.  So we have 3 years to be contending, and I'd argue we have more like a year, given Luka's frustration level last year.  What you are proposing is the Luka Exit Strategy.

[Ghost of Podkolzin]

I think the Naz Reid contract is a good model for Josh.

Agreed.  I was exaggerating with "crazy money", but the notion we shouldn't invest in bigs but we have Lively boggles my mind when our most valuable assets are 3 guards with Luka at Point Forward.

IMO, signing Naz makes their 2nd most valuable asset expendable...  KAT.  I read somewhere KAT for D.Murray was rumored, which makes all the sense in the world for both franchises.

Minny:
Gobert
Naz
Ant
Murray
Conley

Atl:
Okongwu
KAT
Bey
Get a SG for Capela
Young

[dirkfansince1998]

Talk about a straw man.  When did I say to bench Lively all year?  My comment was he is at least 3 years away from being a starter on a championship team.

The second part puzzles me.  We used a draft pick that would have gone elsewhere had we not tanked.  You make it sound like we mortgaged our future for Lively.  He is a plus to what we have last year, without a minus in assets out.

All that said, Luka has a player option in 2026.  So we have 3 years to be contending, and I'd argue we have more like a year, given Luka's frustration level last year.  What you are proposing is the Luka Exit Strategy.

For real? Bitch and complain about a non-existent strawman and follow it up with a real strawman. Was the 10th pick the most valuable asset this summer? Of course. Knowing about the shortcomings of the team. How did they use the most valuable asset? They added a young big. No win now move. Didn´t trade the pick for a guy that would most likely be more useful next season.

One last time. Lively is going to play center minutes next season. Just like Kleber. They still have Holmes that could get a couple of minutes. They could bring back Powell or sign a cheap big for the BAE instead of giving up the only above average point of attack defender on the roster.

If you need another opinion you might want to look at todays presser. Kidd was pretty vocal about the Mavs young core. Including Green. Basically only talked about the five youngsters (including Luka) and Kyrie.

[Jakeospikez]

I don't see Lively as a 3 year project. His defensive awareness and rim protection wasn't raw at all. His shooting to spread the floor is likely a 3+ year project but he can start before then, hopefully early mid season like Kessler did. Future starting lineup is probably Luka/Kyrie/Green/OMax/Lively. Going off of Dinwiddie's description of how the defense was set up, Green POA for defending small guys like Ja/Curry, OMax for defending bigger PFs like Giannis to keep Luka/Kyrie fresh. Not sure how long it will take OMax to develop his shot but it wasn't that great in college so it may take awhile. Stretch 4 big wing right now is obviously the biggest need in FA since there's only Maxi for that role until OMax develops his shot. Backup 3 could be a huge need but depends on what happens to THJ/Bullock. THJ is probably fine as backup 3 for now, not sure if it's better to deal him now or when he's more valuable as an expiring this TDL/next offseason. I think the remaining moves are either upside players that are backups for now or vet stopgaps, don't really need to do anything crazy to impede playtime of the rookies and get long term guys that would bark if they're not a starter. Maybe a long term starting big wing is the proper target if they view OMax as a years away though I suppose.

Zach Collins issue isn't talent, guy is from the same glass shop as KP when it comes to injuries.
https://hoopshype.com/storyline/zach-collins-injury/

[dirkfansince1998]

https://twitter.com/ChrisBHaynes/status/...4635382784

Suns basically have to rebuild the entire roster. Unless they can find 5-6 vet min ring chasers they won´t have an depth.

[Jym]

Stole this from the discord a moment ago.
Yeah we need to figure out a way to dump Bullock

[SleepingHero]

https://streamable.com/fx59ve

[Chris Haynes] The Dallas Mavericks recently made a serious play for DeAndre Ayton, but the package was not approved by Phoenix

https://twitter.com/BibsCorner/status/16...46145?s=20
@mavsmarie Tim, Holmes, Mcgee per #Sources. Suns wanted Mcgee out of the deal for money reasons and Mavs wanted him in the deal for money reasons.

Take this as a grain of salt. 


Still, I'd rather get Ayton and S/W McGee if that's all it takes.

[KillerLeft]

Take this as a grain of salt. 


Still, I'd rather get Ayton and S/W McGee if that's all it takes.

Kill me.

[SleepingHero]

Kill me.

You're going to learn to love Dominayton 

[KillerLeft]

You're going to learn to love Dominayton 

Nah, I like players who can run, change direction, defend and play with heart, not ones who have to watch the last few minutes of important games from the bench.

[BigDirk41]

Take this as a grain of salt. 


Still, I'd rather get Ayton and S/W McGee if that's all it takes.

I'm so glad that trade didn't happen. Lucky Mavs.

[Jym]

Ayton made more sense when we were desperate.
The MBT shouldn't feel desperate now

[SleepingHero]

I think y'all are overlooking a very real reality where Lively isn't ready, Holmes is shot, and we're stuck with McGee starting every night and playing 20mpg.

Ayton, for all of his flaws (and there really aren't a lot of them), would solidify the center position and provide Lively ample time to grow into his role. If Lively is more ready than what is previously thought, then you hit and are playing with house money given that Ayton only cost THJ+Holmes. Each year that passes is another year that is easier to move Ayton should Lively overtake him in the rotation.

In the meantime, you're adding one of 6 centers in the league that averaged 18/10. Has real playoff experience being a starter for a team that went to the finals, and isn't some slow plodding center.

Does he have motivation issues? There is a lot of evidence that he does. But there are also a lot of explanations as to why. I'd much rather run the risk of Ayton being unmotivated 50% max of the time (and have Lively cover the gaps), than hope Holmes can bounce back.

Also, THJ+Holmes is just the cost??? That's it??? I mean c'mon. That's practically free. Holmes wasn't apart of the roster last year and THJ is a great role player but isn't integral at all as evidence of the WCF run where the team didn't miss him for a single game.

[KillerLeft]

I think y'all are overlooking a very real reality where Lively isn't ready, Holmes is shot, and we're stuck with McGee starting every night and playing 20mpg.

I think you are overlooking the very real reality where Ayton suuuuuuuuuucks.

I’d rather they pick a center at random from among the posters in this community.

[cow]

I think you are overlooking the very real reality where Ayton suuuuuuuuuucks.

I’d rather they pick a center at random from among the posters in this community.

Time to see if Dwight Howard's Taiwanese three ball translates to the NBA! Cuban can recycle "the cartoon" and pretend he was right all along.

[SleepingHero]

I think you are overlooking the very real reality where Ayton suuuuuuuuuucks.

I’d rather they pick a center at random from among the posters in this community.

Your Ayton hate is blinding you. He is a legit center. He has a proven track record of winning and being successful in the playoffs. He absolutely doesn't suck and the stats back me up on that.

The eye test shows a talented dude that sometimes goes through the motions. 

In the even the Mavs trade for Ayton I cannot wait for him to prove you wrong.

[cow]

...that sometimes goes through the motions. 

$32,459,438
$34,005,126
$35,550,814