Trade & FA 2023-24: PHX Wants Lebron+Bronny| Hawks to Shop Hunter

[Mavs2021]

Here is the thing about European professional athletes. They have a different mindset than Americans. They don´t care about the GM/sporting director position. They want to show up to work and have a good team. If they don´t, they leave. But they are not going to make demands. So the Mavs are under less pressure than they always pretend to be.
Luka doesn´t care whether you sign this guy or that guy. All he cares about is that he is surrounded by good players within the next 12 months. There is no need to rush into dumb deals this summer. The arguments to wait at least until the TDL are so many.

1. Don´t act desperate.
2. Don´t be the first team to define the new CBA.
3. Don´t commit 100% to the Irving experience by getting another veteran immediately. If Doncic/Kyrie does not work, then giving up the 10th pick for Capela means you are completely screwed.
4. In six months Bertans/THJ/McGee are closer to expiring and so are some desirable players. Reduced costs.
5. In-season trades seem more likely due to more difficult S&T rules.

Vucevic for Wood. I think the players and teams will be interested. The players market will be cold. Teams cap room will be non-existent. All parties can talk themselves into this one. Sign Paul Reed. Draft #10. Find another defensive guard for the minimum Schröeder, DSJ, Milton or Carter in free agency. Add two undrafted rookie wings and then you play the waiting game until the TDL. You can still throw 2027 unprotected at the Hawks for Capela. Maybe Vucevic plus Reed/Kleber/Hendricks works like a charm and you can throw it at an elite wing defender instead.

[MarkAguirreWrathofGod]

Totally with you on this Mavs2021. And If we do trade our #10 pick or 2027 it can’t be for a player with one foot in the grave like Capela or Jrue. It needs to be someone on the right side of 30 that can potentially still pair with Luka after Kyrie. We have the makings of a good core with Luka, Josh Green and Jaden. Add to that and go after young vets with the MLE (assuming we have that.) Paul Reed, the lesser McDaniels. No desperation plays. I also wouldn’t mind Vuc if he’s happy to be here and we can work a Snt for Wood. Maybe he becomes a trade chip for us to use at the deadline…

[ItsGoTime]

Scenario: Harden leaves Phi for Hou. Kyrie says Morey wants to pay him the full max they can give and he would like for us to negotiate a deal that sends him there. Do you do:

Kyrie SnT for Harris and Maxey?

Is that too much, too little or just right?

[omahen]

Scenario: Harden leaves Phi for Hou. Kyrie says Morey wants to pay him the full max they can give and he would like for us to negotiate a deal that sends him there. Do you do:

Kyrie SnT for Harris and Maxey?

Is that too much, too little or just right?

I don't see Philly trading Maxey for anything. He is certainly valued much more than Kyrie, imho

[ItsGoTime]

I don't see Philly trading Maxey for anything. He is certainly valued much more than Kyrie, imho

Morey has always liked stars and valued them more than anything. Maxey isn’t a star.

[Chicagojk]

Dallas has two must-starts in Luka and Irving.  If those are your starters, I'd argue Hardy can't start. 

Really nice post Dan.   Sorry, to just take a snippet but wanted to ask a question.   My wife would be worried knowing how much I have been thinking about Jaden Hardy lately.  I am already thinking what happens 2-3 years from now if Irving is still here and Hardy progresses to my expectations.   Maybe he fizzles out and I am sure there will be a lot of bumps in the road in his development, but I am a big fan.   

So, my question is it possible to eventually (maybe not next year) to have a closing lineup of Luka, Kyrie and Hardy in the game?  Similar to what we did in our conference finals run.  That is an awfully small lineup without a strong defender of those three.   Would an elite rim protector like Myles Turner make this more possible?   The other player left would also need to be a really good, bigger defender as well.   I just think in the next year, Hardy may be one of our top 5 players.    But our first and hopefully second best players play in front of him.

[SleepingHero]

https://twitter.com/PompeyOnSixers/statu...93568?s=20

[Pompey] Sixers’ James Harden expected to reunite with Rockets in free agency, sources say.

[omahen]

Morey has always liked stars and valued them more than anything. Maxey isn’t a star.

Morey is not stupid. You can't "exchange" Harden, Harris and Maxey for Irving and think you will remain competitive. What can Mavs do, if Kyrie wants to go to Philly? All Philly needs to do is send Harris to a third team and they have the cap space to sign Irving. It doesn't cost a Maxey type of player to dump expiring decent player like Harris.

[Chicagojk]

Here is the thing about European professional athletes. They have a different mindset than Americans. They don´t care about the GM/sporting director position. They want to show up to work and have a good team. If they don´t, they leave. But they are not going to make demands. So the Mavs are under less pressure than they always pretend to be.
Luka doesn´t care whether you sign this guy or that guy. All he cares about is that he is surrounded by good players within the next 12 months. There is no need to rush into dumb deals this summer. The arguments to wait at least until the TDL are so many.

1. Don´t act desperate.
2. Don´t be the first team to define the new CBA.
3. Don´t commit 100% to the Irving experience by getting another veteran immediately. If Doncic/Kyrie does not work, then giving up the 10th pick for Capela means you are completely screwed.
4. In six months Bertans/THJ/McGee are closer to expiring and so are some desirable players. Reduced costs.
5. In-season trades seem more likely due to more difficult S&T rules.

Vucevic for Wood. I think the players and teams will be interested. The players market will be cold. Teams cap room will be non-existent. All parties can talk themselves into this one. Sign Paul Reed. Draft #10. Find another defensive guard for the minimum Schröeder, DSJ, Milton or Carter in free agency. Add two undrafted rookie wings and then you play the waiting game until the TDL. You can still throw 2027 unprotected at the Hawks for Capela. Maybe Vucevic plus Reed/Kleber/Hendricks works like a charm and you can throw it at an elite wing defender instead.

The panic trade involving THJ, Bertans and/or Bullock this summer is what really worries me.   Sure, if you find the right deal, make it.  But I worry they won't be patient.    I could see at the trade deadline or next offseason, that these can be valuable.    Bullock is expiring.   Bertans has 5 million guaranteed the following year.  THJ is in the last year of his contract at 16 million next year.    I think all could be valuable additions with a future first.   Right now, that may not be very valuable.   The teams would not be getting immediate cap relief and only receiving a future first 2-3 years down the road.   That current GM may not even be there by then.   

So in the perfect world, I agree with your thoughts.   Go for solid doubles with the draft pick and MLE...sure there are risks of missing on the draft pick.   Look for a rehab project or hidden asset...I could name 5-10 every year who sign for near minimum and are solid contributers on good teams.   And try to uncover another long term asset by buying a pick or an undrafted guy.

[ItsGoTime]

Morey is not stupid. You can't "exchange" Harden, Harris and Maxey for Irving and think you will remain competitive. What can Mavs do, if Kyrie wants to go to Philly? All Philly needs to do is send Harris to a third team and they have the cap space to sign Irving. It doesn't cost a Maxey type of player to dump expiring decent player like Harris.

And the cost of dumping that much salary to a team would be Maxey.

[omahen]

So, my question is it possible to eventually (maybe not next year) to have a closing lineup of Luka, Kyrie and Hardy in the game?  

I don't think you can win in playoffs with two small players, no matter what kind of defenders you put around them

---

And the cost of dumping that much salary to a team would be Maxey.

Sorry, but never. Even if Philly couldn't find any other kind of deal to dump Harris but to include Maxey and received plenty back.

[omahen]

Maxey is 20ppg guy that shoots over 40 % from three. He is 22 and cost controlled for another season before turning RFA. Plenty of teams around the league would see a great building block for the future. Perhaps not number 1, but certainly can be number 2. He is valued plenty more than a cost to dump Harris. Harris is not a useless player. He is good. Not max good, but still good. Rebuilding teams could gladly take such a vet for the locker room. Look at SA, he would be great next to Wemby. Indy has been looking for a PF for forever and they have to spend cap space on someone. They can always flip him at TDL and get some assets back.

[Ghost of Podkolzin]

Seeing Rui play in LA, gets me wondering if there are a few more Wizards who could do well in a better environment.  Avdija especially.  He has not really found his legs in the NBA yet but is still young, has good size and plays defense pretty well.  I just have trouble finding a fit right now.  But I could see something at the deadline if Washington has another lost season.  Avdija, Gafford and Wright/Morris for guys like Bullock, Bertans and a future first.  Not sure if there is enough there for Washington to give up those guys for just a distant first plus two near expirings.  That type of trade would be similar to the Lakers deadline deal though.

I've had the exact same thought.  I really wanted Rui, but think there's real upside to Avdja.

[omahen]

I think cost of dumping Harris is a lottery protected FRP at most. So if there is absolutely no way for Philly to make the dump with assets they have (they don't have a FRP to trade), they trade Maxey for a bunch of assets, keep most of them and use the rest to dump Harris.

[Chicagojk]

I think cost of dumping Harris is a lottery protected FRP at most. So if there is absolutely no way for Philly to make the dump with assets they have (they don't have a FRP to trade), they trade Maxey for a bunch of assets, keep most of them and use the rest to dump Harris.

Morey is not to be messed with imo.  Sure, he has not built a team to a title, but he is always big game hunting and has a pretty good success at it.    If Hardens leaves for Philly (Why would Houston want to max out Harden is another story), I fully expect him to be aggressive to move Harris.  So they would have max cap room if they moved Harris for just cap room?   I don't know if he targets Kyrie or someone like Grant or another FA.  But if Harden leaves, I don't expect Morey to just try to piece together the team.  They are under a lot of pressure as well.   

BTW, Dallas front office better have a firm idea what Kyrie's yes number is and if he is committed to you.    These conversations should have happened already and the conversations should be ongoing.

[F Gump]

As I read through these various ideas, I find myself incredibly pessimistic over all of it. The thing that's is most concerning is that year after year, Cuban has eroded what little talent they had AND has frittered away assets, so that now the cupboard is almost completely bare of ways to build around Luka and Kyrie.

This is not new. Cuban's choices since the title, with no clue as to how to amass assets and gather talent, despite always having a Hall of Fame talent on the roster to attract players, have been one self-destructive choice after another. Just no clue.

Destroying a title team because Cuban was supposedly super smart about how to use the 2011 CBA. Bypassing a generational 2-way player because Cuban had a better roster building idea. His highlights were signing a damaged-goods Parsons to a giant contract, signing a damaged-goods Matthews to a giant contract, signing a decent F Barnes to a giant contract, and signing a washed-and-lazy Jordan to a giant contract.

Trading FOR Porzingis (with the necessary contract that entailed, and loss of draft capital in MANY ways) was an asset killer. There's still more payment due for that move.

And then bringing in a new untrained GM (to make wise decisions) who knows nothing about player evaluation and had no experience in ANY of the GM skills.

Signing THJ to a giant contract.
Signing Bullock, who was good for a year, then a liability thereafter.
Trading AWAY Porzingis (taking bad contracts and spending another pick, for a unicorn) was further drain on assets. Cuban paid a fortune in assets to get him, and then paid again to get rid of him. That's awful.
The asset drain from the Brunson fiasco was huge.
The Wood decision was another one, frittering away opportunity and a pick.
The McGee decision took a roster spot and payroll, and also cost an opportunity to sign someone who would be a plus.

There's basically nothing to work with now. Just a pile of mediocre players with bad contracts.

They need a genius in roster building. Instead they have Cuban running the ship (the blind leading the blind, as it's said), whose choices have been one disaster after another. He has no clue. So I can't see how there's a path to a good team ahead.

[Ghost of Podkolzin]

I think Vuc is a great fit here. If we can SnT Wood for him, I'd take that as a win.

Phi is interesting, if Harden is gone. I really think Dame for Maxi/Harris is a fit both ways.

I think landing spots for Kyrie would be Phx (Ayton), Phi (if Harden leaves and they don't get Dame -- Maxi/Harris), Mil (Jrue),

What about Kyrie to NOLA? Hayes/NanceJr/Jones/Alvarado?

[BigDirk41]

Kryie for Ayton makes us worse. Like or dislike Kyrie, he's arguably a top 10 NBA talent. If Ayton was Mutombo on defense, I would agree, but he's not.

[omahen]

If Kyrie leaves, Mavs can start looking for best deal for Luka and start a rebuild. No way back from there. I just don't believe any SnT would bring more than half what Mavs gave up for him. Kyrie was a gamble on a distressed asset. If works it could lift Mavs to a contender status. If it flames out, Mavs don't have nearly enough to recover.

[omahen]

As I read through these various ideas, I find myself incredibly pessimistic over all of it. The thing that's is most concerning is that year after year, Cuban has eroded what little talent they had AND has frittered away assets, so that now the cupboard is almost completely bare of ways to build around Luka and Kyrie.

This is not new. Cuban's choices since the title, with no clue as to how to amass assets and gather talent, despite always having a Hall of Fame talent on the roster to attract players, have been one self-destructive choice after another. Just no clue.

Destroying a title team because Cuban was supposedly super smart about how to use the 2011 CBA. Bypassing a generational 2-way player because Cuban had a better roster building idea. His highlights were signing a damaged-goods Parsons to a giant contract, signing a damaged-goods Matthews to a giant contract, signing a decent F Barnes to a giant contract, and signing a washed-and-lazy Jordan to a giant contract.

Trading FOR Porzingis (with the necessary contract that entailed, and loss of draft capital in MANY ways) was an asset killer. There's still more payment due for that move.

And then bringing in a new untrained GM (to make wise decisions) who knows nothing about player evaluation and had no experience in ANY of the GM skills.

Signing THJ to a giant contract.
Signing Bullock, who was good for a year, then a liability thereafter.
Trading AWAY Porzingis (taking bad contracts and spending another pick, for a unicorn) was further drain on assets. Cuban paid a fortune in assets to get him, and then paid again to get rid of him. That's awful.
The asset drain from the Brunson fiasco was huge.
The Wood decision was another one, frittering away opportunity and a pick.
The McGee decision took a roster spot and payroll, and also cost an opportunity to sign someone who would be a plus.

There's basically nothing to work with now. Just a pile of mediocre players with bad contracts.

They need a genius in roster building. Instead they have Cuban running the ship (the blind leading the blind, as it's said), whose choices have been one disaster after another. He has no clue. So I can't see how there's a path to a good team ahead.

I am with you that I have almost zero confidence in Mavs to pull off a good offseason. They haven't shown anything in this past four years that would make me think otherwise. That is why this is the last offseason I give them  If they don't satisfy my standards, I am out. I set my own standards. Not that they will care, but I will. I can find many more fun things to do than watch incompetence.