+- MavsBoard (https://www.mavsboard.com)
+-- Forum: Boards (https://www.mavsboard.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=1)
+--- Forum: Dallas Mavericks and the NBA (https://www.mavsboard.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=2)
+--- Thread: Trade & FA 2023-24: Stein-Ingram Trade Inevitable| LAL Want Lebron Back On Any Terms (/showthread.php?tid=2444)
Pages:
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
133
134
135
136
137
138
139
140
141
142
143
144
145
146
147
148
149
150
151
152
153
154
155
156
157
158
159
160
161
162
163
164
165
166
167
168
169
170
171
172
173
174
175
176
177
178
179
180
181
182
183
184
185
186
187
188
189
190
191
192
193
194
195
196
197
198
199
200
201
202
203
204
205
206
207
208
209
210
211
212
213
214
215
216
217
218
219
220
221
222
223
224
225
226
227
228
229
230
231
232
233
234
235
236
237
238
239
240
241
242
243
244
245
246
247
248
249
250
251
252
253
254
255
256
257
258
259
260
261
262
263
264
265
266
267
268
269
270
271
272
273
274
275
276
277
278
279
280
281
282
283
284
285
286
287
288
289
290
291
292
293
294
295
296
297
298
299
300
301
302
303
304
305
306
307
308
309
310
311
312
313
314
315
316
317
318
319
320
321
322
323
324
325
326
327
328
329
330
331
332
333
334
335
336
337
338
339
340
341
342
343
344
345
346
347
348
349
350
351
352
353
354
355
356
357
358
359
360
361
362
363
364
365
366
367
368
369
370
371
372
373
374
375
376
377
378
379
380
381
382
383
384
385
386
387
388
389
390
391
392
393
394
395
396
397
398
399
400
401
402
403
404
405
406
407
408
409
410
411
412
413
414
415
416
417
418
419
420
421
422
423
424
425
426
427
428
429
430
431
432
433
434
435
436
437
438
439
440
441
442
443
444
445
446
447
448
449
450
451
452
453
454
455
456
457
458
459
460
461
462
463
464
465
466
467
468
469
470
471
472
473
474
475
476
477
478
479
480
481
482
483
484
485
486
487
488
489
490
491
492
493
494
495
496
497
498
499
500
501
502
503
504
505
506
507
508
509
510
511
512
513
514
515
516
517
518
519
520
521
522
523
524
525
526
527
528
529
530
531
532
533
534
535
536
537
538
539
540
541
542
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Stein- Market around Ayton plummeting, might just go for salary - SleepingHero - 06-20-2023
https://twitter.com/mavs_ffl/status/1671208741872578565?s=46&t=bBRvvEZPYFLF-T5n-yNj2w
Quote:Report: There is a feeling in the league that Deandre Ayton could be traded for a matching salary and no draft picks, per Stein
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Stein- Market around Ayton plummeting, might just go for salary - Scott41theMavs - 06-20-2023
(06-20-2023, 04:17 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: https://twitter.com/mavs_ffl/status/1671208741872578565?s=46&t=bBRvvEZPYFLF-T5n-yNj2w
I don't care for the idea of us getting him at all, but if it's for our garbage, then I can stomach it.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Stein- Market around Ayton plummeting, might just go for salary - Mavs2021 - 06-20-2023
(06-20-2023, 04:17 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: https://twitter.com/mavs_ffl/status/1671208741872578565?s=46&t=bBRvvEZPYFLF-T5n-yNj2w
Mavs leaking via Stein: Ayrton market is trash. We keep the pick.
This screams: Here is THJ + McGee + Bullock and bye.
![[Image: yes-hell.gif]](https://media.tenor.com/kH9_uWF6ab4AAAAM/yes-hell.gif)
Is there hope after all for this front office?
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Stein- Market around Ayton plummeting, might just go for salary - KillerLeft - 06-20-2023
(06-20-2023, 04:46 PM)Mavs2021 Wrote: Mavs leaking via Stein: Ayrton market is trash. We keep the pick.
This screams: Here is THJ + McGee + Bullock and bye.
Is there hope after all for this front office?
I’m typing the following statement with a straight face, and stand behind it: THJ is a better player than Ayton. Mavs lose that trade.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Stein- Market around Ayton plummeting, might just go for salary - StrandedOnBeauboisHill - 06-20-2023
(06-20-2023, 04:48 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: I’m typing the following statement with a straight face, and stand behind it: THJ is a better player than Ayton. Mavs lose that trade.
Do you think he's a better fit for this team? I am kind of with you that Ayton is overrated on this board but he would still be the best center we've had since Tyson and Hardaway's role is shrinking by the minute. If you can leverage your pick and non core assets to get a starting 4 and 5 (and it makes sense on paper and the court), I would consider this offseason a win and that's essentially what's being presented.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Stein- Market around Ayton plummeting, might just go for salary - Mavs2021 - 06-20-2023
(06-20-2023, 04:48 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: I’m typing the following statement with a straight face, and stand behind it: THJ is a better player than Ayton. Mavs lose that trade.Ayton is the perfect trade target, because he has been the latest young talent that has been put in the gutter by a mass media assault.
Other recent examples include Wiggins, Randle, Markkanen or Lavine. Ayton is lazy. Ayton disappears in big games. Blah Blah Blah. He was a 16/12 NBA finals center in his rookie season. Lauri Markkanen was also a 19/9 PF/C in his 2nd season, then his performance started to tail off a bit and he was made the scapegoat for the Bulls decline. Ayton is 24 years old. He´s a good player with upside. He´s friends with Luka. He is certainly better than any center we had in the last decade and if he is available for as little as THJ/Bullock/McGee it would be foolish to not acquire him.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Stein- Market around Ayton plummeting, might just go for salary - Scott41theMavs - 06-20-2023
(06-20-2023, 05:02 PM)Mavs2021 Wrote: Ayton is the perfect trade target, because he has been the latest young talent that has been put in the gutter by a mass media assault.
Other recent examples include Wiggins, Randle, Markkanen or Lavine. Ayton is lazy. Ayton disappears in big games. Blah Blah Blah. He was a 16/12 NBA finals center in his rookie season. Lauri Markkanen was also a 19/9 PF/C in his 2nd season, then his performance started to tail off a bit and he was made the scapegoat for the Bulls decline. Ayton is 24 years old. He´s a good player with upside. He´s friends with Luka. He is certainly better than any center we had in the last decade and if he is available for as little as THJ/Bullock/McGee it would be foolish to not acquire him.
He'd still be an albatross contract. I need some 2nds back as well.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Stein- Market around Ayton plummeting, might just go for salary - Mavs2021 - 06-20-2023
(06-20-2023, 04:52 PM)StrandedOnBeauboisHill Wrote: Do you think he's a better fit for this team? I am kind of with you that Ayton is overrated on this board but he would still be the best center we've had since Tyson and Hardaway's role is shrinking by the minute. If you can leverage your pick and non core assets to get a starting 4 and 5 (and it makes sense on paper and the court), I would consider this offseason a win and that's essentially what's being presented.
..and you free the rotation for Hardy and Green. Hardy will be ready for the 6th man role imho and with Green it´s time to sink or swim. He tends to hide, when the roster is at full strength. With Bullock out of the equation, it´s time to stabilize your performance and earn that contract extension, Can´t pay him, if he has the skills (which he has teased regularly now), but doesn´t have the mindset to display them by standing up for himself and get his.
(06-20-2023, 05:06 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: He'd still be an albatross contract. I need some 2nds back as well.
Only if the landscape on contracts changes completely with the new CBA, which is possible. Could also be a lot of trade posturing right now, where teams try to leverage the new CBA to make some smart early trades.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Stein- Market around Ayton plummeting, might just go for salary - StrandedOnBeauboisHill - 06-20-2023
(06-20-2023, 05:08 PM)Mavs2021 Wrote: ..and you free the rotation for Hardy and Green. Hardy will be ready for the 6th man role imho and with Green it´s time to sink or swim. He tends to hide, when the roster is at full strength. With Bullock out of the equation, it´s time to stabilize your performance and earn that contract extension, Can´t pay him, if he has the skills (which he has teased regularly now), but doesn´t have the mindset to display them by standing up for himself and get his.
Ya I agree with this. My only concern is if you move Hardaway AND Bullock you really need another wing now. I'm all for Hardy moving into Hardaway's role and getting those looks moving forward and all for Green moving into a full time starter role alongside Kyrie and Luka but I would like to hold onto Bullock simply to play those minutes behind Green. If there is a way to use all those assets to get a new starting frontcourt AND a backup wing then I have no problem parting ways with Bullock.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Stein- Market around Ayton plummeting, might just go for salary - cow - 06-20-2023
(06-20-2023, 04:31 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: I don't care for the idea of us getting him at all, but if it's for our garbage, then I can stomach it.
Sigh. Agreed.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Stein- Market around Ayton plummeting, might just go for salary - Mavs2021 - 06-20-2023
(06-20-2023, 05:13 PM)StrandedOnBeauboisHill Wrote: Ya I agree with this. My only concern is if you move Hardaway AND Bullock you really need another wing now. I'm all for Hardy moving into Hardaway's role and getting those looks moving forward and all for Green moving into a full time starter role alongside Kyrie and Luka but I would like to hold onto Bullock simply to play those minutes behind Green. If there is a way to use all those assets to get a new starting frontcourt AND a backup wing then I have no problem parting ways with Bullock.
If we assume that trade goes through it would be difficult to stay under the luxuy tax apron of 169.0 to keep the full MLE and BAE.
It would certainly be possible, if Kyrie is working with the Mavs to sign a reasonable starting salary.
Doncic 40
Irving 40
Ayton 33
Barnes 12 MLE (doubt it, but let´s assume that for a second)
Kleber 11
Bertans 5.4 s/w
Green 4.8
Mo. Wagner 4.4 BAE
Hendricks 4.0
Hardy 1.8
156.4
Fill rest with Powell, Morris, Lawson, Pinson, Ntilikina and some 2nd round talent.
Doncic/Hardy/Pinson
Irving/Lawson/Ntilikina
Green/Hendricks/2nd round pick
Barnes/Kleber/Morris
Ayton/Wagner/Powell
I think that would be as good as it gets for this off-season and positionally very flexible.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Stein- Market around Ayton plummeting, might just go for salary - Jym - 06-20-2023
(06-20-2023, 05:39 PM)Mavs2021 Wrote: If we assume that trade goes through it would be difficult to stay under the luxuy tax apron of 169.0 to keep the full MLE and BAE.
It would certainly be possible, if Kyrie is working with the Mavs to sign a reasonable starting salary.
Doncic 40
Irving 40
Ayton 33
Barnes 12 MLE (doubt it, but let´s assume that for a second)
Kleber 11
Bertans 5.4 s/w
Green 4.8
Mo. Wagner 4.4 BAE
Hendricks 4.0
Hardy 1.8
156.4
Fill rest with Powell, Morris, Lawson, Pinson, Ntilikina and some 2nd round talent.
Doncic/Hardy/Pinson
Irving/Lawson/Ntilikina
Green/Hendricks/2nd round pick
Barnes/Kleber/Morris
Ayton/Wagner/Powell
I think that would be as good as it gets for this off-season and positionally very flexible.
Probably not happening but it'd be nice if going with the that 5th year could get him to go lower in year 1
A hypothetical 5 year deal worth $200 million could start at around $34.5 mil. He'd make $45.6 mil in year 5
RE: AROUND the NBA:Morant Suspended 25gms|Jordan sells Hornets for 3B|Dunleavy Jr new GM - Luka77 - 06-20-2023
(06-20-2023, 10:22 AM)omahen Wrote: Why not just say, you are not making the deal? No way SA accepts that. If they really, really, really like the guy at #10, you might squeeze some minor draft assets in addition to Johnson, but no way they include Vassel. Vassel and Bilal could easily play as SG and SF. At least this is how I see it.
Johnson is 20ppg wing on a below 20 per contract for four more years. High energy guy. His shooting has been good when they still had a good PG, dropped last year when he had to create more by himself. Improved each year so far. He is definitely worth #10 pick on the market. It is just a question if you see him as a fit on Mavs or not.
Vassell and Bilal are redundant. Almost the same player, although I think Bilal is more athletic and has better ball handling skills.
SAS are light years ahead of the Mavs in evaluating, drafting and developing talent. That much has been shown year after year for at least the last two decades.
If they want a talent and to trade a young vet for a talent the Mavs should think about taking that talent themselves. Last time SAS traded away a young vet for a draft pick they ended up with Kawhi while the other team got George Hill.
If SAS likes someone that the Mavs are unsure about they better demand a premium.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Stein- Market around Ayton plummeting, might just go for salary - DanSchwartzgan - 06-20-2023
(06-20-2023, 05:39 PM)Mavs2021 Wrote: 156.4
Fill rest with Powell, Morris, Lawson, Pinson, Ntilikina and some 2nd round talent.
Doncic/Hardy/Pinson
Irving/Lawson/Ntilikina
Green/Hendricks/2nd round pick
Barnes/Kleber/Morris
Ayton/Wagner/Powell
This brings up an interesting question. Do you try to stay under the $169mm and get access to the MLE/BAE (but probably needing to S/W Bertans to do it)? Or, do you forego S&T’s and the full MLE and give yourself more room to work financially.
Personally, I no longer see them doing a Bertans S/W. I think he’s too valuable as matching salary. I tend to lean more toward trade matching up to the second apron instead of the MLE and being limited to staying under the first apron (but it isn’t my money).
I see Hendricks as a PF. I’d probably start Maxi and use the Morris minutes to bring Hendricks along at the right pace so by the end of season he’s getting a consistent run every game.
Powell is a perfectly fine backup C and Maxi could take some minutes there also. I don’t see spending anything more than a minimum 3rd string C.
I think the open spot on the roster would be a backup wing behind or ahead of Green. Accomplish that and you’ve filled C, PF and wing. The key of course is trading for Ayton without giving up draft capital. If a package of players who doesn’t include the pick gets that done, then great.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Stein- Market w/Ayton plummeting| GTJ opts in - cow - 06-20-2023
Pinning your hopes on a Kyrie/Ayton combo seems like a recipe for disappointment.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Stein- Market around Ayton plummeting, might just go for salary - DanSchwartzgan - 06-20-2023
(06-20-2023, 04:17 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: https://twitter.com/mavs_ffl/status/1671208741872578565?s=46&t=bBRvvEZPYFLF-T5n-yNj2w
Quote:
Report: There is a feeling in the league that Deandre Ayton could be traded for a matching salary and no draft picks, per Stein
I heard Chris Haynes today saying Washington was offered Ayton and instead selected expiring CP3. It supports the argument others have made that Ayton isn’t worth draft capital and Phoenix should just take rotation players on better contracts.
By the transitive property, if Ayton is worth less than an expiring contract and there is thought that there might be an Ayton/Collins swap, then Collins is also worth less than an expiring contract.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Stein- Market w/Ayton plummeting| GTJ opts in - DanSchwartzgan - 06-20-2023
Rafael Barlow was on This League podcast today with Haynes and Stein. He said he heard Siakam to Portand for 3 was a serious possibility. With Portland now possibly in on a PGeorge deal, which way are they going to go? Then you have Miami passing on Beal in order to get Dame. Some think that means Miami has good intel that Dame will move (which then kills any PG or Siakam deal).
There is reporting now that Phoenix reached out to Dallas about a S&T for Irving before the Beal deal went down. Dallas said no. PG to Houston for #4 and KPJ would be scary. Adds $30mm salary to Houston leaving them over $40mm in space for a PG to play with PG and the kids. Rut Row
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Stein- Market w/Ayton plummeting| GTJ opts in - Scott41theMavs - 06-20-2023
(06-20-2023, 10:44 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: PG to Houston for #4 and KPJ would be scary. Adds $30mm salary to Houston leaving them over $40mm in space for a PG to play with PG and the kids. Rut Row
Not sure PG is a draw on his own.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Stein- Market around Ayton plummeting, might just go for salary - SleepingHero - 06-20-2023
(06-20-2023, 09:27 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: I heard Chris Haynes today saying Washington was offered Ayton and instead selected expiring CP3. It supports the argument others have made that Ayton isn’t worth draft capital and Phoenix should just take rotation players on better contracts.
By the transitive property, if Ayton is worth less than an expiring contract and there is thought that there might be an Ayton/Collins swap, then Collins is also worth less than an expiring contract.
Its funny because I saw the exact opposite report where Washington asked for Ayton but it was the Suns that refused to add him.
In any case, there is a LOT of posturing regarding Ayton. Stein saying he has no market. PHX reporters are hinting at keeping him and are wanting a starting center at least for any trade.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Stein- Market w/Ayton plummeting| GTJ opts in - SleepingHero - 06-20-2023
(06-20-2023, 10:44 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: There is reporting now that Phoenix reached out to Dallas about a S&T for Irving before the Beal deal went down. Dallas said no. PG to Houston for #4 and KPJ would be scary. Adds $30mm salary to Houston leaving them over $40mm in space for a PG to play with PG and the kids. Rut Row
I won't be surprised if HOU makes a big swing. But the thing is, all the smoke regarding Harden going there has died down, with him instead opting to stay in Philly. Why would the Harden rumors not intensify especially if these new PG rumors are to be believed?
I don't think HOU is realistically offering #4 for PG nor do I think he's worth that personally given his injury history. His shoulder is really bad. It's always something.
Whether or not Kyrie would go there... well we all called it in March. I won't be surprised if HOU tried. Once again its up to the Mavs to show they aren't the worst front office of all time.
If they lose Kyrie for nothing to a division rival what does that say to Luka and their ability to actually put a good team around him?