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Trade & FA 2023-24: Stein-Ingram Trade Inevitable| LAL Want Lebron Back On Any Terms - Printable Version

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+--- Thread: Trade & FA 2023-24: Stein-Ingram Trade Inevitable| LAL Want Lebron Back On Any Terms (/showthread.php?tid=2444)

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RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Beal traded to PHX - omahen - 06-19-2023

(06-19-2023, 09:36 AM)Razzmatazz_Hopskidillydoo Wrote: I'd take John Collins for Bertans+McGee+46.
No first round pick swaps.

But..

If the Hawks are adding the 15th for free, then this is a total no brainer.
Think about the fit later, change the coach, whatever..

I agree. I don't think Collins is a good fit next to Luka/Irving, but even I would do the deal in a heartbeat if it would cost us Bertans/Bullock and net us #15 along the way. Score on at least one of those decently high picks and you have something. Trade one of those picks for an immediate improvement and draft the other one. 

That being said, I have a hard time believing Collins value is so low or even if it is, that Atlanta would consider such a salary dump. Hope I am wrong.

RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Shams: Beal sweepstakes down to 2: MIA+PHX|IND+TOR+DAL 3-teamer? - Ghost of Podkolzin - 06-19-2023

(06-18-2023, 07:00 PM)Jason Terry Wrote: Now onto the CP3 trade

Any interest in the LAC vets?

The Wizards have a TPE from the Rui trade that can fit Mcgee. Wizards could create a large TPE doing something like this. It’s the right move for them

There’s a deal in there somewhere

Zubac is precisely what we need as our starting C.

RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Beal traded to PHX - HoosierDaddyKid - 06-19-2023

https://theathletic.com/4622330/2023/06/19/draymond-green-declines-player-option-warriors-free-agency/





Draymond opts out...

RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Beal traded to PHX - omahen - 06-19-2023

(06-19-2023, 11:45 AM)HoosierDaddyKid Wrote: https://theathletic.com/4622330/2023/06/19/draymond-green-declines-player-option-warriors-free-agency/





Draymond opts out...

Interesting. I think this is a signal he stays at lower per year number. Opting in would give him more options to be traded to a team that would also want to extend him.

RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Beal traded to PHX - Ghost of Podkolzin - 06-19-2023

(06-19-2023, 09:07 AM)Hooper21 Wrote: I can't help but think Collins is just a more expensive version of Wood.  I haven't watched as much of Collins to say if he's an upgrade on defense, but seems he's similar enough that Kidd might not use him enough or correctly.  Of course, the big contract should force that issue.

More expensive, permanently damaged finger that won't heal, and far less productive/efficient.

On defense They're a wash.  I have Collins #30 for the PF profile, Wood #34.  

Wood: 27yo, $16.5m (my estimate)
Collins: 25yo, $23.5m

Wood: 16.6pts, 7.3rbs, 1.1blks on 51.5%fg, 37.6%3pt in 25.9mins, 67gms
Collins: 13.1pts,  6.5rbs,  1.0blks on 50.8%fg, 29.2%pt in 30mins, 71gms

WTF would we want Collins when we could simply resign Wood?  WTF would we want to continue to load up our roster with other franchises' destressed, overpaid assets?

RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Beal traded to PHX - Okstate819 - 06-19-2023

(06-19-2023, 12:28 PM)Ghost of Podkolzin Wrote: More expensive, permanently damaged finger that won't heal, and far less productive/efficient.

On defense They're a wash.  I have Collins #30 for the PF profile, Wood #34.  

Wood: 27yo, $16.5m (my estimate)
Collins: 25yo, $23.5m

Wood: 16.6pts, 7.3rbs, 1.1blks on 51.5%fg, 37.6%3pt in 25.9mins, 67gms
Collins: 13.1pts,  6.5rbs,  1.0blks on 50.8%fg, 29.2%pt in 30mins, 71gms

WTF would we want Collins when we could simply resign Wood?  WTF would we want to continue to load up our roster with other franchises' destressed, overpaid assets?

I get the sentiment, but to say Wood and Collins are a wash on defense is not remotely accurate. Collins has shown the ability to defend on the perimeter at times that Wood is simply not capable of doing.

RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Beal traded to PHX - Chicagojk - 06-19-2023

Even if I disagree with the move, I am desperate to see a move by the Mavs and thinking "boy that is creative" or " I am not sure, but I can at least see the vision" or "The Mavs targeted a player, and went after him hard and made it happen". Instead of spending two months discussing everything and thinking "The Mavs did what?" or "WTF" or "They have had two months and that was the plan they came up with"

RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Beal traded to PHX - Ghost of Podkolzin - 06-19-2023

(06-19-2023, 12:39 PM)Okstate819 Wrote: I get the sentiment, but to say Wood and Collins are a wash on defense is not remotely accurate. Collins has shown the ability to defend on the perimeter at times that Wood is simply not capable of doing.

>2022/2023 Collins >>> Wood

2022/2023 Collins = Wood

You don't want to trade for a guy based upon who he was.  You have to evaluate who he is, and more important who he'll be.  Collins is declining sharply at a very young age.  Is it that ghastly finger that won't heal?  I don't know, but if he keeps the dejectory of his decline, he'll be Haslem in 3 years.

Contract: $78.3/3yrs, last year PO (which he WILL exercise).  That is horrific.  He's a $13m/yr player (and that's on the decline), meaning dead money of $39.3m!  Why on Earth would we want to do that?

RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Beal traded to PHX - Ghost of Podkolzin - 06-19-2023

Let's stop the madness, and target players at the right price, age, and fit. Forget Collins. Forget Ayton. Here is my prescription...

Use these assets to return the players below:
2023#10
2025 FRP
2028 FRP
Bertans
THJ
Bullock
Maxi
McGee
Morris
Powell (outgoing S&T)
MLE

Ivica Zubac (26yo, $22.6m over 2yrs)
Naz Reid (incoming S&T, $39m over 3yrs - my estimate)
Alex Caruso (29yo, $10.2m over 2yrs)
Tari Eason (22yo, $12.6m over 3 yrs)
Zach Collins (25yo, $7.7m 1yr)
Christian Wood (resign, $45m over 3 years - my estimate)

Luka, Caruso
Kyrie, Hardy
Green, Eason
Collins, Wood
Zubac, Reid
Sixth Man: Caruso or Wood depending on matchups and game flow

That is an incredibly balanced 10-man rotation. Youth mixed with Vets. Defense with offense. 2 max contracts with all reasonable concracts.

RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Beal traded to PHX| Draymond opts out, Warriors want to resign - SleepingHero - 06-19-2023

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1670826564659867648?cxt=HHwWgMCzvY_6-68uAAAA

Quote:Klutch's Rich Paul to ESPN on Golden State's Draymond Green declining player option: "We will continue to talk to Golden State and explore all options,"  Paul said. It was expected Green would opt-out and now he can talk with Warriors, explore sign-and-trades and free agency.

The Warriors have been motivated to sign Green on a new deal.


RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Beal traded to PHX| Draymond opts out, Warriors want to resign - DallasMaverick - 06-19-2023

(06-19-2023, 02:05 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1670826564659867648?cxt=HHwWgMCzvY_6-68uAAAA

Any guesses on 33 1/2-year-old Draymond's next contract?  Dollars and years?

I'm guessing he's already got a commitment from the Warriors at less money.  4 years, $70m?

Otherwise, why would he turn up his nose at his final year at $27m?

RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Beal traded to PHX| Draymond opts out, Warriors want to resign - Ghost of Podkolzin - 06-19-2023

(06-19-2023, 04:09 PM)DallasMaverick Wrote: Any guesses on 33 1/2-year-old Draymond's next contract?  Dollars and years?

I'm guessing he's already got a commitment from the Warriors at less money.  4 years, $70m?

Otherwise, why would he turn up his nose at his final year at $27m?

Great question.  He's at the point he's looking for a 4 year contract and focusing on the total of those 4 years.  I wonder if GS is willing to go 4 years.  My guess is a crappy team would offer him $100m/4yrs.

RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Beal traded to PHX| Draymond opts out, Warriors want to resign - BigDirk41 - 06-19-2023

(06-19-2023, 04:09 PM)DallasMaverick Wrote: Any guesses on 33 1/2-year-old Draymond's next contract?  Dollars and years?

I'm guessing he's already got a commitment from the Warriors at less money.  4 years, $70m?

Otherwise, why would he turn up his nose at his final year at $27m?

There's no way he opted out to take less money. It will probably be 4/100 or more.

RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Beal traded to PHX| Draymond opts out, Warriors want to resign - MFFL - 06-19-2023

My guess is 4/100 with the last year being a team option

RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Beal traded to PHX| Draymond opts out, Warriors want to resign - Ghost of Podkolzin - 06-19-2023

(06-19-2023, 04:22 PM)MFFL Wrote: My guess is 4/100 with the last year being a team option

I think that's precisely what Green is worth.  For those who say it's taking less money bc he opt'd out of $27m, it's the total value of the contract when you're his age, not per year.  So, it's signing for $100m guaranteed vs staying with $27m on a gamble.

RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Beal traded to PHX| Draymond opts out, Warriors want to resign - Chicagojk - 06-19-2023

What do you think it will take to get Grant Williams this off-season? Tough to find a match via trade with the Celtics. I have trouble seeing the Celtics paying him 16-18 million though.

He would be high on my list if we can find a trade without giving up Hardy, Green or a first round pick. He can guard physical players and hit open threes. And he is a guy players don’t like playing against.

I listened to Doc Rivers on the BS podcast recently and he said Red Auerbach always told him good teams need an instigator. I don’t think he meant a dirty player but a guy that likes to mess things up. Grant is one of these. The Mavs need an instigator.

RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Beal traded to PHX| Draymond opts out, Warriors want to resign - Luka77 - 06-19-2023

(06-19-2023, 08:50 PM)Chicagojk Wrote: What do you think it will take to get Grant Williams this off-season?  Tough to find a match via trade with the Celtics.  I have trouble seeing the Celtics paying him 16-18 million though.

He would be high on my list if we can find a trade without giving up Hardy, Green or a first round pick.  He can guard physical players and hit open threes.  And he is a guy players don’t like playing against.

I listened to Doc Rivers on the BS podcast recently and he said Red Auerbach always told him good teams need an instigator.  I don’t think he meant a dirty player but a guy that likes to mess things up.  Grant is one of these.  The Mavs need an instigator.

Wood S&T.  The Celtics might have to give a little more back in that scenario.

RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Beal traded to PHX| Draymond opts out, Warriors want to resign - omahen - 06-19-2023

(06-19-2023, 08:55 PM)Luka77 Wrote: Wood S&T.  The Celtics might have to give a little more back in that scenario.

Celtics can't SnT guys in. Not realistically

RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Beal traded to PHX| Draymond opts out, Warriors want to resign - ItsGoTime - 06-20-2023

(06-19-2023, 11:51 PM)omahen Wrote: Celtics can't SnT guys in. Not realistically
SA is looking for a PG. Bos is looking to trade Brogdon. SA will have the capspace to take Brogdon on. That will give Bos some wiggle room. Would want to sign Wood at lower than Williams contract, otherwise what’s the point (unless they think Wood is a better fit which I doubt).

RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Beal traded to PHX| Draymond opts out, Warriors want to resign - omahen - 06-20-2023

(06-20-2023, 03:25 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: SA is looking for a PG. Bos is looking to trade Brogdon. SA will have the capspace to take Brogdon on. That will give Bos some wiggle room. Would want to sign Wood at lower than Williams contract, otherwise what’s the point (unless they think Wood is a better fit which I doubt).

I don't think Boston would be willing to trade Brogdon and Williams for just Wood. I still think, if contender wants Wood, he can choose the MLE way (either full or taxpayer, depending what contender has). I don't think a contender would be willing to pay him more than a "prove it" deal. 

My guess for Williams would be, that Boston would look at some draft compensation to facilitate SnT or not excersize their restricted option. To be honest, I am not sure Williams is worth more than full MLE. Huge risk paying him more than that, imho. I just don't see a third best player on a contender type in him, which would justify paying him closer to 20 per.