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RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: MIA wants Beal? SAC wants Beal. - Scott41theMavs - 06-15-2023
(06-15-2023, 05:30 PM)Ghost of Podkolzin Wrote: IMO, #10 is a sweet spot in the draft for trading out if a hyped player or two falls. History tells you at least one of A.Thompson, Hendricks, Black, Whitmore, or George will fall. If Hendricks falls to 10, you take him. All other scenarios, especially if Black falls, there will be great value in trading out. I think Lively is at least 3 years out, making him not a good pick for us, unless he drops into the 20s. Everything else I just don't see a great fit 10-15.
I probably wouldn't take Lively at ten, but I think your whole "at least three years out" take is shock value. He'll be able to protect the rim off the bench from day one. As for Black, he's more than an opportunity. He will be one of the best on-ball defenders in the league from the get-go. Precisely what would help the Mavs right now. It's the offense that's the problem. But he's a guy you absolutely consider keeping - which lends a veracity to the negotiating process - "I dunno, Black would help us a lot, we'd need a boatload in return to justify trading him. Which playoff ready starters and future FRPs do you have available again?"
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: MIA wants Beal? SAC wants Beal. - Scott41theMavs - 06-15-2023
(06-15-2023, 09:06 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: If we assume the Utah deal is possible (Bertans/10 for Olynyk/16/28), it would seem that Atlanta would be the team interested in Olynyk/Reggie (both expiring and Olynyk is more useful and cheaper than Bertans) in a deal for Collins.
Values for Collins on this board and on the Hawks Reddit are all over the place. So, depending on whether one likes or dislikes Collins, you can send either 16 or 28 and keep Collins and the other one.
A week away and we are getting a rumor a day. I imagine those that want a player drafted at 10 are not going to be happy with any of Collins, Bojan or Olynyk and Utah’s later firsts. We should probably collectively lower our expectations so the vitriol will be more tolerable next Thursday. And who knows, if expectations are lowered, maybe we’ll be pleasantly surprised.
If the guy at 10 is Black or Hendricks, I'll break things if we do any of those tradedowns. Ditto Whitmore and Walker, but they aren't falling to 10.
If the other team is offering a future protected FRP on top of all of the other proposed returns, then they have my attention instead of my vomit. Otherwise, all of these proposed deals are terrible for the Mavs given the value of a contributor with youth and a rookie scale contract.
Jason Terry - Jason Terry - 06-15-2023
(06-15-2023, 09:06 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: If we assume the Utah deal is possible (Bertans/10 for Olynyk/16/28), it would seem that Atlanta would be the team interested in Olynyk/Reggie (both expiring and Olynyk is more useful and cheaper than Bertans) in a deal for Collins.Olynyk/Reggie or a combination of decent players on expiring contracts like that makes most sense for Atlanta
Values for Collins on this board and on the Hawks Reddit are all over the place. So, depending on whether one likes or dislikes Collins, you can send either 16 or 28 and keep Collins and the other one.
A week away and we are getting a rumor a day. I imagine those that want a player drafted at 10 are not going to be happy with any of Collins, Bojan or Olynyk and Utah’s later firsts. We should probably collectively lower our expectations so the vitriol will be more tolerable next Thursday. And who knows, if expectations are lowered, maybe we’ll be pleasantly surprised.
Brooklyn’s picks are on my mind too. Indiana as well. In scenarios where we trade down again from 15 to get multiple picks
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: MIA wants Beal? SAC wants Beal. - SleepingHero - 06-15-2023
(06-15-2023, 09:06 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: If we assume the Utah deal is possible (Bertans/10 for Olynyk/16/28), it would seem that Atlanta would be the team interested in Olynyk/Reggie (both expiring and Olynyk is more useful and cheaper than Bertans) in a deal for Collins.
Values for Collins on this board and on the Hawks Reddit are all over the place. So, depending on whether one likes or dislikes Collins, you can send either 16 or 28 and keep Collins and the other one.
A week away and we are getting a rumor a day. I imagine those that want a player drafted at 10 are not going to be happy with any of Collins, Bojan or Olynyk and Utah’s later firsts. We should probably collectively lower our expectations so the vitriol will be more tolerable next Thursday. And who knows, if expectations are lowered, maybe we’ll be pleasantly surprised.
Wasn't there a big rumor earlier this year that PHX was about to trade for Collins but nixed the deal and went all in for KD?
We know the Collins-Bertans deal doesn't match money wise. Yes ladies and gentlemen I AM making another "Get Ayton to the Mavs" post.
Y'all thought this was going in another direction? No way Jose.
Anyways, Hawks Reddit are pretty evenly split on Collins' value, and given the penalties of the new CBA, I'm leaning more towards that his contract tanks his value beyond all repair (Ayton is in that same boat, only slightly better).
Is there a 3-team deal here where:
PHX gets: Collins+Reggie
ATL gets: Bertans+THJ+#10
Mavs get: Hunter+Ayton+#15
This deal pretty quickly saves the Hawks about 15 mil of room next year, and gets them far enough under the apron where they don't have to fret paying Okongwu a market deal. If they S/W Bertans they could open up even more space between them and the 1st apron. One might question the inclusion of Hunter, but from my understanding Hawk fans are ready for Bey+Johnson to get a bigger role. Hunter hasn't been bad, but he's grossly overpaid.
PHX does this for obvious reasons. They wanted Collins for a reason. This way they break up Ayton into 2 contracts that will cost them less in the long run.
Mavs in 1 deal get their starting wing and center, while also removing 2 awful contracts and replacing them with equally awful contracts but highly producing players.
Luka
Kyrie/Hardy
Green/#15
Hunter/Maxi
Ayton/
And they should be right below the 1st apron by my math with this top 8. ~166ish.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: MIA wants Beal? SAC wants Beal. - F Gump - 06-16-2023
(06-15-2023, 11:55 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: Is there a 3-team deal here where:
PHX gets: Collins+Reggie
ATL gets: Bertans+THJ+#10 + McGee
Mavs get: Hunter+Ayton+#15 + Johnson
[...]
Luka
Kyrie/Hardy
Green/#15
Hunter/Maxi
Ayton/ McGee Johnson
And they should be right below the 1st apron by my math with this top 8. ~166ish.
You left out McGee. Total (apron accounting) is about 172M (over Apron 1).
I would want to add a McGee/Johnson swap to the equation as noted above, for several reasons. It would make the money shift less extreme and balance the values better, since ATL is getting a significant draft jump AND getting rid of Collins. I think Johnson would be very needed in Dallas, but he's buried in the pecking order in ATL, which is the kind of swap that both teams would go for. But most importantly, that addition would allow Bullock to be traded without having to guarantee his salary, leaving that choice to PHX's discretion in case they want to s-w and erase about 9M in salary from this season's cap.
With Apron 2 the limit, the Mavs can do something else later.
* In your original trade, could use TxMLE of 5M, and pay DP 5M, and still have a cushion of about 2M under Apron 2. Or could instead use Wood or Powell as a SNT chip for something coming back (up to maybe 12M in salary).
* By including the McGee/Johnson swap, those various spending possibilities increase by about 3M, which might be useful.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: MIA wants Beal? Wiz want top 3 pick? - omahen - 06-16-2023
(06-15-2023, 11:54 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: Collins
To add to Collins discussion, not replying to you specifically. In my opinion, Mavs have their two stars and their job is to put the right pieces around them. I would love Collins in a different situation, but I don't think he fits next to Irving and Luka. Mavs need to add hardworking, defense first guys that are not complete liability on offense. Luka and Kyrie should generate a ton of open looks for them. That is why I am not interested in Collins trade, no matter what pieces are involved.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: MIA wants Beal? SAC want Beal. Suns find Ayton market "lean" - Mavs2021 - 06-16-2023
I´ll add an interesting one. Orlando needs shooting. If anything goes according to plan and none of Hendricks, Walker, Black are available, maybe you can do a #10 for #11 swap with Orlando, so they can pick Dick and we can add one of their bigs.
Something like
#10 + Bertans for #11 + Isaac.
#10 + THJ for #11 + Harris + BolBol + Bitadze.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: MIA wants Beal? SAC wants Beal. - DanSchwartzgan - 06-16-2023
(06-16-2023, 01:09 AM)F Gump Wrote: I would want to add a McGee/Johnson swap to the equation as noted above, for several reasons.
Good cap work (especially on the Reggie part), but who plays PF for Atlanta. SH traded two of their possibilities in Collins and Hunter. Now Johnson is gone too. Bey? Backed up by #10 if a PF falls to them?
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: MIA wants Beal? SAC want Beal. Suns find Ayton market "lean" - omahen - 06-16-2023
I have a hard time to see Atlanta trading two of their starters and one young prospect for Mavs junk contracts (all multiyear deals) out of which only THJ has some player value, just to move up five spots in the draft.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: MIA wants Beal? SAC want Beal. Suns find Ayton market "lean" - Chicagojk - 06-16-2023
(06-16-2023, 02:06 AM)Mavs2021 Wrote: I´ll add an interesting one. Orlando needs shooting. If anything goes according to plan and none of Hendricks, Walker, Black are available, maybe you can do a #10 for #11 swap with Orlando, so they can pick Dick and we can add one of their bigs.
Something like
#10 + Bertans for #11 + Isaac.
#10 + THJ for #11 + Harris + BolBol + Bitadze.
I want to steer clear of politics as my tastes are probably much different than others. But Issac's Instragram is just weird. Not Kyrie level weird, but different.
How about picking up pick #36. Magic have given away second round picks in the past, maybe you can get that too? Would you take just #36 to move down if they weren't drafting your guy?
It would be nice if there was a hot name available and the "smart" teams in Toronto, OKC, New Orleans, maybe Utah or Orlando liked that player at 10. Although maybe that should mean Dallas should just draft that player. Maybe you can have a bidding war and still get a player you targeted.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: MIA wants Beal? SAC want Beal. Suns find Ayton market "lean" - omahen - 06-16-2023
(06-16-2023, 07:09 AM)Chicagojk Wrote: Would you take just #36 to move down if they weren't drafting your guy?
Sure, definitely. If there is no better option available, of course.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: MIA wants Beal? SAC want Beal. Suns find Ayton market "lean" - ItsGoTime - 06-16-2023
(06-16-2023, 07:09 AM)Chicagojk Wrote: I want to steer clear of politics as my tastes are probably much different than others. But Issac's Instragram is just weird. Not Kyrie level weird, but different.Nah, in that situation I would want 1 or 2 future SRPs, we need Nico ammo for trades. It’s impossible for him to trade without those seconds!
How about picking up pick #36. Magic have given away second round picks in the past, maybe you can get that too? Would you take just #36 to move down if they weren't drafting your guy?
It would be nice if there was a hot name available and the "smart" teams in Toronto, OKC, New Orleans, maybe Utah or Orlando liked that player at 10. Although maybe that should mean Dallas should just draft that player. Maybe you can have a bidding war and still get a player you targeted.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: MIA wants Beal? SAC want Beal. Suns find Ayton market "lean" - Hypermav - 06-16-2023
(06-16-2023, 02:06 AM)Mavs2021 Wrote: I´ll add an interesting one. Orlando needs shooting. If anything goes according to plan and none of Hendricks, Walker, Black are available, maybe you can do a #10 for #11 swap with Orlando, so they can pick Dick and we can add one of their bigs.
Something like
#10 + Bertans for #11 + Isaac.
#10 + THJ for #11 + Harris + BolBol + Bitadze.
The first one is my simple pet trade. 11 is still tradeable afterwards or allows Lively. If you believe Isaac can come back, this is an easy trade for a position of need.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: MIA wants Beal? SAC wants Beal. - Ghost of Podkolzin - 06-16-2023
(06-15-2023, 06:50 PM)RasheedsBigWhiteSpot Wrote: Collins has the same if not worse value as KP did last year. And what did KP fetch? Bertans on a worse contract and a vet (Dinwiddie) whose value had dipped. THE MAVS were the ones who gave up a draft pick (because of course).
In no way do I give up the 10th pick in a 14 player draft for a guy averaging 13 pts and 6 rebs.
Atlanta is over a barrel moneywise already being close to the 2nd apron even before extending Bey and Okongwu. If they want to move off Collins' long-term money, they need to give up draft capital.
I massage the discussed Jazz/Hawks 3-way and add the Pacers
Mavs get - Collins, Turner, 28, 29 and 46
Hawks get - Bertans, Bullock, 26 and 31
Jazz - Hardaway and 10
Pacers - Olynyk, Kleiber, McGee, 15 and 16
We could do worse than Collins/Turner. Add Hunter and it's a really good deal. Subtract Maxi and it's a homerun.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: MIA wants Beal? SAC want Beal. Suns find Ayton market "lean" - SleepingHero - 06-16-2023
https://twitter.com/MavsFilmRoom/status/1669731468711542790?s=20
Mavericks are “looking to remake their center rotation” per @TheSteinLine in his latest column:
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: MIA wants Beal? SAC wants Beal. - DanSchwartzgan - 06-16-2023
(06-15-2023, 11:55 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: Is there a 3-team deal here where:
PHX gets: Collins+Reggie
ATL gets: Bertans+THJ+#10
Mavs get: Hunter+Ayton+#15
I like the Phoenix part of this. I don’t see Atlanta doing that at all.
Hardwood Knocks today spent some time on Phoenix and concluded they should keep Paul another year and move on from Ayton. The thing to do is avoid things that hard cap you…OR…find a way to reduce enough salary that you can spend the Full MLE and BAE while stying under the apron.
I think the simple way to do this is go back to the post you responded to between Utah/Dallas. Utah makes much more sense as a Bertans destination than Atlanta or Phoenix.
I think the way you do Ayton (after dumping Bertans to Utah), is you send Olynyk and THJ to Phoenix (others can argue if 16 or 28 or both or neither need to be added). Whatever draft capital it takes (if any) can be combined with Shamet to bring in someone more valuable. If Atlanta wants to play along, that’s their business, but their part of this isn’t critical to Dallas.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: MIA wants Beal? SAC want Beal. Suns find Ayton market "lean" - Dahlsim - 06-16-2023
(06-16-2023, 10:53 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: https://twitter.com/MavsFilmRoom/status/1669731468711542790?s=20
Mavericks are “looking to remake their center rotation” per @TheSteinLine in his latest column:
Nice sound to my ears. I always thought Luka played amazing offensive basketball in his minutes for example with Boban.
Luka is a savant with an average center so love to see what he can do with a more talented big that also has the defensive chops to support him.
I'll be interested to see if Mavs games or Spurs game will be more interesting for me next season. These moves will be key.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: MIA wants Beal? SAC want Beal. Suns find Ayton market "lean" - ItsGoTime - 06-16-2023
Bleacher Report article about big draft day deals. The Mavcentric trade:
“The Deal: Dallas Mavericks send Dāvis Bertāns and No. 10 to the Atlanta Hawks for John CollinsThis feels like selling low on John Collins. It probably is, and Atlanta may be able to talk Dallas into sending Tim Hardaway Jr. instead of Bertāns.
But just ahead of the 2023 deadline, The Athletic's Sam Amick reported that the Hawks' asking price for Collins had "decreased significantly." According to Amick, they weren't even insisting on a first-rounder.
This deal, of course, gives them one. It also opens up playing time in the frontcourt for all of Onyeka Okongwu, Jalen Johnson and Saddiq Bey.
And while he hasn't shown it much in recent years, Bertāns can still be a floor-warping shooter. In a lineup with Young, he'd likely get plenty of catch-and-shoot opportunities.
The No. 10 pick would also give Atlanta a shot at landing some help on a rookie-scale contract (something that will be far more important under the new collective bargaining agreement).
The upside for the Mavericks, on the other hand, is obvious.If Kyrie Irving is re-signed, Dallas will have more than enough perimeter firepower. What they'd need is someone who can rim-run, catch lobs and be a part of a potentially switch-heavy defensive scheme.
Feeding off the playmaking of Irving and Luka Dončić would give Collins plenty of opportunities to shine.”
Atl lowered their price to not require a FRP and the writer brushes off giving a lottery pick for him? For shame.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: MIA wants Beal? SAC want Beal. Suns find Ayton market "lean" - loki - 06-16-2023
(06-16-2023, 10:53 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: https://twitter.com/MavsFilmRoom/status/1669731468711542790?s=20
Mavericks are “looking to remake their center rotation” per @TheSteinLine in his latest column:
They've got a lot of work to do. I'd like to see a trade for a starter and then sign a backup like Eubanks with part of the MLE. Powell and McGee should either be gone or rack up DNPs. If they want Lively it should be after trading back. Don't rely on him to give more than an inconsistent 15-20 mpg.
(06-16-2023, 11:54 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: Bleacher Report article about big draft day deals. The Mavcentric trade:
“
- The Deal: Dallas Mavericks send Dāvis Bertāns and No. 10 to the Atlanta Hawks for John Collins
Any trade for Collins is going to make me sick. He doesn't defend or rebound, hasn't shot the ball well in years, and is on a bloated contract. There's a reason Hawks fans are thrilled at the thought of dumping him.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: MIA wants Beal? SAC want Beal. Suns find Ayton market "lean" - F Gump - 06-16-2023
(06-16-2023, 10:53 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: https://twitter.com/MavsFilmRoom/status/1669731468711542790?s=20
Mavericks are “looking to remake their center rotation” per @TheSteinLine in his latest column:
Two thoughts on this "news flash" from the Mavs:
1 Well, duh.
2 Didn't we hear this same tune from the Mavs a year ago? Ugh.