(06-15-2023, 12:53 PM)Nowitzki Way Wrote: if the trade is #10 / Bertans / McGee for #15 / Collins then I'm all the way in.

We could still have a shot at Lively. If not then you have your pick of Miller, Coulibaly, Hood-Schifino, Hawkins.  Or maybe we take a chance on one of these super scoring combo guards like Nick Smith, Keyonte George, or Bufkin.

Or what could you do with #15? Could you trade down again and pick up another piece while unloading Bullock or THJ?  Maybe something with Brooklyn for #21 or #22.

If we're adding Green to Bertans then its a no. Maybe Bullock/Bertans but i'd rather unload Javale.

(06-15-2023, 11:54 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: ATL is the one that's desperate to move up and get off Collins. No shot Green is included in any fashion. Collins contract is also much worse than Bertans. There has to be more here for Dallas

I think the simplest deal for all parties is 10+Bertans+McGee+Reggie for 15+Collins+Okongwu 

Hawks save about 500k next year in salary and have the potential to save a crap ton more if they S/W Bertans or Reggie. Essentially a get out of cap hell free card given and they get a nice party gift of moving up 5 spots.

(06-15-2023, 01:49 PM)JamesConway912 Wrote: Collins played the worst season of his career, right now his value is at an all time low. I don’t see how acquiring him should justify moving down so many spots.

Bertans‘ contract = sunk cost anyway. We shouldn’t lower the value of #10 bc of his deal.

Yuck.

Remember when we tried to move up for Haliburton by using our spare players? Nobody fell for our lowball offer, neither should we.

(06-15-2023, 11:59 AM)Ghost of Podkolzin Wrote: OK, I've retooled my defensive model to be position-less, but weight production based upon profiles of what you want out of a position.  Here's what I have for Center.  I'll also do a profile for Center-Forward, Forward-Center, Forward, Forward-Guard, Guard-Forward, and Guard.

Center Profile:
19% -- Paint-Dfg%
8% -- Paint-Missed FGs
13% -- Mid-Dfg%
6% -- Mid-Missed FGs
11% -- 3pt-Dfg%
3% -- 3pt-Missed FGs
6% -- Defensive Loose Balls Gained
2% -- Charges Drawn
7% -- Defensive Box-outs Resulting in Team RB
17% -- Defensive Rebounds
6% -- Blocks
2% -- Steals
*Each of the above categories is normalized by a multiplier equal so that the league's best is 100.00
Note: this is position-less.  It rates the player's production in the categories and weights of above.  These are players classified as C, C-F, and F-C.


1 - Anthony Davis - 30yo, F-C, 78.73
2 - Joel Embiid - 29yo, C-F, 75.16
3 - Brook Lopez - 35yo, C, 73.09
4 - Rudy Gobert - 30yo, C, 72.99
5 - Nikola Jokic - 28yo, C, 72.58
6 - Nic Claxton - 24yo, C, 72.37
7 - Kristaps Porzingis - 27yo, F-C, 71.61
8 - Jaren Jackson Jr. - 23yo, F-C, 71.25
9 - Evan Mobley - 21yo, C, 70.28
10 - Ivica Zubac - 26yo, C, 69.88
11 - Domantas Sabonis - 27yo, F-C, 69.87
12 - Steven Adams - 29yo, C, 68.49
13 - Jarrett Allen - 25yo, C, 68.19
14 - Myles Turner - 27yo, C-F, 67.86
15 - Nikola Vucevic - 32yo, C, 67.53
16 - Walker Kessler - 21yo, C, 67.29
17 - Jusuf Nurkic - 28yo, C, 66.82
18 - Karl-Anthony Towns - 27yo, C-F, 64.96
19 - Deandre Ayton - 24yo, C, 64.38
20 - Clint Capela - 29yo, C, 64.35
21 - Alperen Sengun - 20yo, C, 64.14
22 - Jakob Poeltl - 27yo, C, 63.91
23 - Mitchell Robinson - 25yo, C-F, 63.74
24 - Robert Williams III - 25yo, C-F, 63.61
25 - Bam Adebayo - 25yo, C-F, 63.46
26 - Lauri Markkanen - 26yo, F-C, 63.03
27 - Al Horford - 37yo, C-F, 62.82
28 - Jonas Valanciunas - 31yo, C, 62.18
29 - Julius Randle - 28yo, F-C, 62.16
30 - Wendell Carter Jr. - 24yo, C-F, 61.89
31 - Zach Collins - 25yo, F-C, 61.8
32 - Onyeka Okongwu - 22yo, F-C, 60.94
33 - Mark Williams - 21yo, C, 60.28
34 - Daniel Gafford - 24yo, F-C, 59.65
35 - Mason Plumlee - 33yo, F-C, 59.5
36 - Jalen Duren - 19yo, C, 58.95
37 - Kelly Olynyk - 32yo, F-C, 58.84
38 - Isaiah Hartenstein - 25yo, C-F, 58.45
39 - Isaiah Stewart - 22yo, F-C, 58.29
40 - John Collins - 25yo, F-C, 58.16
41 - Naz Reid - 23yo, C-F, 56.03
42 - Drew Eubanks - 26yo, F-C, 55.94
43 - Bismack Biyombo - 30yo, C, 55.44
44 - Kevin Love - 34yo, F-C, 53.72
45 - Nick Richards - 25yo, C, 53.31
46 - Larry Nance Jr. - 30yo, F-C, 53.1
47 - Jalen Smith - 23yo, F-C, 52.86
48 - Charles Bassey - 22yo, C-F, 52.74
49 - Santi Aldama - 22yo, F-C, 51.99
50 - Bol Bol - 23yo, C-F, 51.63
51 - Dean Wade - 26yo, F-C, 51.16
52 - Kai Jones - 22yo, C-F, 51.03
53 - Damian Jones - 27yo, C, 50.93
54 - Dwight Powell - 31yo, F-C, 50.7
55 - Mo Bamba - 25yo, C, 50.32
56 - Christian Koloko - 22yo, C, 50.24
57 - Andre Drummond - 29yo, C, 49.99
58 - Chris Boucher - 30yo, F-C, 49.79
59 - Jock Landale - 27yo, C, 49.55
60 - Jalen McDaniels - 25yo, F-C, 49.54
61 - Mike Muscala - 31yo, F-C, 49.18
62 - Goga Bitadze - 23yo, C-F, 49.14
63 - Dewayne Dedmon - 33yo, C, 48.8
64 - Thomas Bryant - 25yo, C-F, 48.77
65 - DeAndre Jordan - 34yo, C, 48.69
66 - Jericho Sims - 24yo, C, 48.48
67 - Moritz Wagner - 26yo, F-C, 48.31
68 - Luke Kornet - 27yo, C-F, 47.67
69 - Day'Ron Sharpe - 21yo, C, 46.75
70 - James Wiseman - 22yo, C, 46.35
71 - Bruno Fernando - 24yo, F-C, 46.23
72 - Sandro Mamukelashvili - 24yo, F-C, 45.76
73 - Dario Saric - 29yo, F-C, 45.32
74 - Chimezie Metu - 26yo, F-C, 44.83
75 - Montrezl Harrell - 29yo, F-C, 44.53
76 - Willy Hernangomez - 29yo, C-F, 44.1
77 - Gorgui Dieng - 33yo, C, 43.97
78 - Zeke Nnaji - 22yo, F-C, 43.77
79 - Orlando Robinson - 22yo, C, 43.51
80 - Jaxson Hayes - 23yo, C-F, 42.82
81 - JaMychal Green - 32yo, F-C, 40.32

(06-15-2023, 03:54 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: https://medium.com/mavsforum/mavericks-make-bold-move-acquiring-john-collins-in-a-draft-day-swap-982ba12a94c

(06-15-2023, 04:13 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: Who wrote that piece? Terrible take.

(06-15-2023, 04:24 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: You are terrible

(06-15-2023, 04:44 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: Oh, it's yours? Heh. No, I'm 100% out on moving down out of that draft position for Collins - possibly could justify it if Hendricks and Black are off the board.

(06-15-2023, 03:54 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: https://medium.com/mavsforum/mavericks-make-bold-move-acquiring-john-collins-in-a-draft-day-swap-982ba12a94c

(06-15-2023, 06:01 PM)Jason Terry Wrote: Collins is a risk, but we need to be risky for several reasons. Capela would be ideal, but i think Atlanta is set on Collins being moved.

I can’t decide if Collins or Ayton is a worse idea

(06-15-2023, 05:30 PM)Ghost of Podkolzin Wrote: IMO, #10 is a sweet spot in the draft for trading out if a hyped player or two falls.  History tells you at least one of A.Thompson, Hendricks, Black, Whitmore, or George will fall.  If Hendricks falls to 10, you take him.  All other scenarios, especially if Black falls, there will be great value in trading out.  I think Lively is at least 3 years out, making him not a good pick for us, unless he drops into the 20s.  Everything else I just don't see a great fit 10-15.

---

Given his plummeting performance last year, his contract, and the finger that won't heal, Collins is of negative value in a trade.  Hard pass.

(06-15-2023, 08:50 PM)Jason Terry Wrote: How about:

Hawks get:
Bertans
Bullock
10

Mavs get:
Collins
Jalen Johnson
15
46

Maybe Johnson develops a shot. But we need cheap depth if we add Collins. It’s a negative contract or neutral at best. The Hawks are in a bad spot, so we need to take advantage of that and get the best value