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+--- Thread: Trade & FA 2023-24: Stein-Ingram Trade Inevitable| LAL Want Lebron Back On Any Terms (/showthread.php?tid=2444)
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RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: MIA wants Beal? Wiz want top 3 pick? - Razzmatazz_Hopskidillydoo - 06-15-2023
(06-15-2023, 12:04 AM)SkenfromLMF Wrote: The biggest problem with receiving a player in the S&T is that it HARD Caps a team at the First Apron... I am not sure that Dallas can or should get under that point unless Kyrie is walking without a S&T going out.
Fair.
If Kyrie walks and no trades are happening, Kuzma should be the Mavs first call.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: MIA wants Beal? Wiz want top 3 pick? - omahen - 06-15-2023
I would consider this, if the right pieces are involved. McGee is a straight salary match, but I think #10 is a bit strong for just Kuminga. I would want some assets back.
https://twitter.com/TheNBACentral/status/1669016481445683209
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: MIA wants Beal? Wiz want top 3 pick? - loki - 06-15-2023
(06-15-2023, 03:39 AM)omahen Wrote: I would consider this, if the right pieces are involved. McGee is a straight salary match, but I think #10 is a bit strong for just Kuminga. I would want some assets back.
https://twitter.com/TheNBACentral/status/1669016481445683209
I'd give #10 if they send #19 to Washington for Gafford. The Wizards could absorb the salary from Dallas to offer GS some cap relief as well.
DAL: Bullock, McGee, #10 for Kuminga, Gafford
GS: Kuminga, #19 for #10
WAS: Gafford for Bullock, McGee, #19
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: MIA wants Beal? Wiz want top 3 pick? - ItsGoTime - 06-15-2023
(06-15-2023, 07:31 AM)loki Wrote: WAS: Gafford for Bullock, McGee, #19That’s a salary match to add Avidja too, and I think #19 might be high for just Gafford. He is currently a back up C.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: MIA wants Beal? Wiz want top 3 pick? - Chicagojk - 06-15-2023
(06-15-2023, 03:39 AM)omahen Wrote: I would consider this, if the right pieces are involved. McGee is a straight salary match, but I think #10 is a bit strong for just Kuminga. I would want some assets back.
https://twitter.com/TheNBACentral/status/1669016481445683209
It will be really interesting to see what Kuminga's value is around the league. I thought he would made a jump by now. He has had some strong performances, but just hasn't been able to force playing time in GS. Still only 20. In some ways, he compares similar to Whitmore in body and athleticism.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: MIA wants Beal? Wiz want top 3 pick? - ItsGoTime - 06-15-2023
To add Avdija, would have to send McGee to GSW and add a small salary like Isaiah Todd to either Mavs or GSW.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: MIA wants Beal? Wiz want top 3 pick? - DanSchwartzgan - 06-15-2023
(06-15-2023, 08:18 AM)Chicagojk Wrote: It will be really interesting to see what Kuminga's value is around the league. I thought he would made a jump by now. He has had some strong performances, but just hasn't been able to force playing time in GS. Still only 20. In some ways, he compares similar to Whitmore in body and athleticism.
Isn't this a cautionary tale for falling in love with #10. If he were in this draft, we'd be salivating at what a great fit he'd be.
(06-15-2023, 08:14 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: That’s a salary match to add Avidja too, and I think #19 might be high for just Gafford. He is currently a back up C.
He started 47 games...the last 47 he played.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: MIA wants Beal? Wiz want top 3 pick? - ItsGoTime - 06-15-2023
(06-15-2023, 08:27 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: He started 47 games...the last 47 he played.Experimenting on a lottery team is what Kidd should’ve done too. Gafford playing with KP and Kuzma puts both (better players) players in lesser roles.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: MIA wants Beal? Wiz want top 3 pick? - DanSchwartzgan - 06-15-2023
Interesting stuff on Butler/Kyrie fit (or lack of fit)
https://twitter.com/i/status/1669027921929936920
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: MIA wants Beal? Wiz want top 3 pick? - DanSchwartzgan - 06-15-2023
Stealing this from some guy named Eric on Twittter. I kind of like it even though it sends out Josh Green (see I can be flexible).
Cav's get DFS/O'Neale
Nets get #10/Green/Bertans
Mav's get 21/Allen (and a TE for Bertans)
I feel like Brooklyn comes out really good here and Cleveland feels a little light. Maybe add the other Brooklyn pick to the Cleveland side of this. Dallas drafts a Green replacement at 21 and has their center. Brooklyn can get a PG at 10 and turns some of its excess at big wing into a promising player at small wing. Cleveland turns its excess at Center into a pick and two guys who defend and can shoot well enough to play next to Mobley.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: MIA wants Beal? Wiz want top 3 pick? - IamDougieFresh - 06-15-2023
https://twitter.com/thenbacentral/status/1669369901859971075?s=46&t=-lW3MUk_hy_SiUq46U-6RA
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: MIA wants Beal? Wiz want top 3 pick? - BigDirk41 - 06-15-2023
(06-15-2023, 10:50 AM)IamDougieFresh Wrote: https://twitter.com/thenbacentral/status/1669369901859971075?s=46&t=-lW3MUk_hy_SiUq46U-6RA
I'm good with this trade.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: MIA wants Beal? Wiz want top 3 pick? - DanSchwartzgan - 06-15-2023
(06-15-2023, 10:50 AM)IamDougieFresh Wrote: https://twitter.com/thenbacentral/status/1669369901859971075?s=46&t=-lW3MUk_hy_SiUq46U-6RA
The question with that deal has always been 'plus what?'. Bertans doesn't trade match Collins. So, is it Bertans plus Green plus 10? Or, Bertans plus McGee plus 10. I'm great with the McGee version, but why do they need Capela, Okongwu and McGee? I can live with the Green version (if you tell me who we are getting at 15 and who is playing center going forward), but it hurts my heart.
That's why I've always thought Reggie/McGee/10 for Capela/15 was the more likely deal.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: MIA wants Beal? Wiz want top 3 pick? - The Jom - 06-15-2023
(06-15-2023, 11:00 AM)BigDirk41 Wrote: I'm good with this trade.
Only the salaries don’t match, the picks are reversed, and it would be one of the biggest steals in NBA-trade history. (This from a guy who actually likes Davis and worries that JC may be overrated. Still!)
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: MIA wants Beal? Wiz want top 3 pick? - BigDirk41 - 06-15-2023
(06-15-2023, 11:27 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: The question with that deal has always been 'plus what?'. Bertans doesn't trade match Collins. So, is it Bertans plus Green plus 10? Or, Bertans plus McGee plus 10. I'm great with the McGee version, but why do they need Capela, Okongwu and McGee? I can live with the Green version (if you tell me who we are getting at 15 and who is playing center going forward), but it hurts my heart.
That's why I've always thought Reggie/McGee/10 for Capela/15 was the more likely deal.
I'm 100% out if Green is included. Collins is underperforming and not worth any young players with a lot of potential. No way the Mavs include Green to only get Collins. They should move on if that's the price.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: MIA wants Beal? Wiz want top 3 pick? - HAguiar95 - 06-15-2023
(06-15-2023, 10:35 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: Stealing this from some guy named Eric on Twittter. I kind of like it even though it sends out Josh Green (see I can be flexible).
Cav's get DFS/O'Neale
Nets get #10/Green/Bertans
Mav's get 21/Allen (and a TE for Bertans)
I feel like Brooklyn comes out really good here and Cleveland feels a little light. Maybe add the other Brooklyn pick to the Cleveland side of this. Dallas drafts a Green replacement at 21 and has their center. Brooklyn can get a PG at 10 and turns some of its excess at big wing into a promising player at small wing. Cleveland turns its excess at Center into a pick and two guys who defend and can shoot well enough to play next to Mobley.
Maybe Green doesn't need to be involved? Is Green/Bertans = Hardaway/#21 in value ?
CLE in: DFS, O'Neale, #21
DAL in: Allen.
BKN in: #10, Hardaway (slightly more valuable than Bertans, since they don't have their pick in '24 better give them a guy that can play 25-30mpg for them).
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: MIA wants Beal? Wiz want top 3 pick? - Okstate819 - 06-15-2023
Bullock/Bertans/#10 for Collins and #15 works. ATL would likely waive Bullock to only be on the hook for the partial guarantee. Actually a fair trade considering the contract were taking off their hands.
The question would be do we then try to trade down from #15 for another veteran.
A draft ending with multiple starting level veterans added and a pick in the 20-30 range would be the ultimate success imo
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: MIA wants Beal? Wiz want top 3 pick? - The Jom - 06-15-2023
Swap of a late-lottery pick for an out-of-vogue big while dumping unwanted salary. Sound familiar? Isn’t that last year’s Wood trade?
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: MIA wants Beal? Wiz want top 3 pick? - SleepingHero - 06-15-2023
(06-15-2023, 11:27 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: The question with that deal has always been 'plus what?'. Bertans doesn't trade match Collins. So, is it Bertans plus Green plus 10? Or, Bertans plus McGee plus 10. I'm great with the McGee version, but why do they need Capela, Okongwu and McGee? I can live with the Green version (if you tell me who we are getting at 15 and who is playing center going forward), but it hurts my heart.
That's why I've always thought Reggie/McGee/10 for Capela/15 was the more likely deal.
ATL is the one that's desperate to move up and get off Collins. No shot Green is included in any fashion. Collins contract is also much worse than Bertans. There has to be more here for Dallas
I think the simplest deal for all parties is 10+Bertans+McGee+Reggie for 15+Collins+Okongwu
Hawks save about 500k next year in salary and have the potential to save a crap ton more if they S/W Bertans or Reggie. Essentially a get out of cap hell free card given and they get a nice party gift of moving up 5 spots.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: MIA wants Beal? Wiz want top 3 pick? - Ghost of Podkolzin - 06-15-2023
OK, I've retooled my defensive model to be position-less, but weight production based upon profiles of what you want out of a position. Here's what I have for Center. I'll also do a profile for Center-Forward, Forward-Center, Forward, Forward-Guard, Guard-Forward, and Guard.
Center Profile:
19% -- Paint-Dfg%
8% -- Paint-Missed FGs
13% -- Mid-Dfg%
6% -- Mid-Missed FGs
11% -- 3pt-Dfg%
3% -- 3pt-Missed FGs
6% -- Defensive Loose Balls Gained
2% -- Charges Drawn
7% -- Defensive Box-outs Resulting in Team RB
17% -- Defensive Rebounds
6% -- Blocks
2% -- Steals
*Each of the above categories is normalized by a multiplier equal so that the league's best is 100.00
Note: this is position-less. It rates the player's production in the categories and weights of above. These are players classified as C, C-F, and F-C.
1 - Anthony Davis - 30yo, F-C, 78.73
2 - Joel Embiid - 29yo, C-F, 75.16
3 - Brook Lopez - 35yo, C, 73.09
4 - Rudy Gobert - 30yo, C, 72.99
5 - Nikola Jokic - 28yo, C, 72.58
6 - Nic Claxton - 24yo, C, 72.37
7 - Kristaps Porzingis - 27yo, F-C, 71.61
8 - Jaren Jackson Jr. - 23yo, F-C, 71.25
9 - Evan Mobley - 21yo, C, 70.28
10 - Ivica Zubac - 26yo, C, 69.88
11 - Domantas Sabonis - 27yo, F-C, 69.87
12 - Steven Adams - 29yo, C, 68.49
13 - Jarrett Allen - 25yo, C, 68.19
14 - Myles Turner - 27yo, C-F, 67.86
15 - Nikola Vucevic - 32yo, C, 67.53
16 - Walker Kessler - 21yo, C, 67.29
17 - Jusuf Nurkic - 28yo, C, 66.82
18 - Karl-Anthony Towns - 27yo, C-F, 64.96
19 - Deandre Ayton - 24yo, C, 64.38
20 - Clint Capela - 29yo, C, 64.35
21 - Alperen Sengun - 20yo, C, 64.14
22 - Jakob Poeltl - 27yo, C, 63.91
23 - Mitchell Robinson - 25yo, C-F, 63.74
24 - Robert Williams III - 25yo, C-F, 63.61
25 - Bam Adebayo - 25yo, C-F, 63.46
26 - Lauri Markkanen - 26yo, F-C, 63.03
27 - Al Horford - 37yo, C-F, 62.82
28 - Jonas Valanciunas - 31yo, C, 62.18
29 - Julius Randle - 28yo, F-C, 62.16
30 - Wendell Carter Jr. - 24yo, C-F, 61.89
31 - Zach Collins - 25yo, F-C, 61.8
32 - Onyeka Okongwu - 22yo, F-C, 60.94
33 - Mark Williams - 21yo, C, 60.28
34 - Daniel Gafford - 24yo, F-C, 59.65
35 - Mason Plumlee - 33yo, F-C, 59.5
36 - Jalen Duren - 19yo, C, 58.95
37 - Kelly Olynyk - 32yo, F-C, 58.84
38 - Isaiah Hartenstein - 25yo, C-F, 58.45
39 - Isaiah Stewart - 22yo, F-C, 58.29
40 - John Collins - 25yo, F-C, 58.16
41 - Naz Reid - 23yo, C-F, 56.03
42 - Drew Eubanks - 26yo, F-C, 55.94
43 - Bismack Biyombo - 30yo, C, 55.44
44 - Kevin Love - 34yo, F-C, 53.72
45 - Nick Richards - 25yo, C, 53.31
46 - Larry Nance Jr. - 30yo, F-C, 53.1
47 - Jalen Smith - 23yo, F-C, 52.86
48 - Charles Bassey - 22yo, C-F, 52.74
49 - Santi Aldama - 22yo, F-C, 51.99
50 - Bol Bol - 23yo, C-F, 51.63
51 - Dean Wade - 26yo, F-C, 51.16
52 - Kai Jones - 22yo, C-F, 51.03
53 - Damian Jones - 27yo, C, 50.93
54 - Dwight Powell - 31yo, F-C, 50.7
55 - Mo Bamba - 25yo, C, 50.32
56 - Christian Koloko - 22yo, C, 50.24
57 - Andre Drummond - 29yo, C, 49.99
58 - Chris Boucher - 30yo, F-C, 49.79
59 - Jock Landale - 27yo, C, 49.55
60 - Jalen McDaniels - 25yo, F-C, 49.54
61 - Mike Muscala - 31yo, F-C, 49.18
62 - Goga Bitadze - 23yo, C-F, 49.14
63 - Dewayne Dedmon - 33yo, C, 48.8
64 - Thomas Bryant - 25yo, C-F, 48.77
65 - DeAndre Jordan - 34yo, C, 48.69
66 - Jericho Sims - 24yo, C, 48.48
67 - Moritz Wagner - 26yo, F-C, 48.31
68 - Luke Kornet - 27yo, C-F, 47.67
69 - Day'Ron Sharpe - 21yo, C, 46.75
70 - James Wiseman - 22yo, C, 46.35
71 - Bruno Fernando - 24yo, F-C, 46.23
72 - Sandro Mamukelashvili - 24yo, F-C, 45.76
73 - Dario Saric - 29yo, F-C, 45.32
74 - Chimezie Metu - 26yo, F-C, 44.83
75 - Montrezl Harrell - 29yo, F-C, 44.53
76 - Willy Hernangomez - 29yo, C-F, 44.1
77 - Gorgui Dieng - 33yo, C, 43.97
78 - Zeke Nnaji - 22yo, F-C, 43.77
79 - Orlando Robinson - 22yo, C, 43.51
80 - Jaxson Hayes - 23yo, C-F, 42.82
81 - JaMychal Green - 32yo, F-C, 40.32