(02-08-2024, 07:12 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: @townbrad
Unconfirmed, but heard a rumbling that Dinwiddie plans to attend tonight's game, which, if true, is . . . interesting

(02-08-2024, 10:32 PM)surfpuckmd Wrote: PJ Washington has the potential to revert to being a winning player.  He's been bad this season though.  2024 PJ Washington isn't worth a top-2 protected 2027 1st.  If we obtained him for our two 2nd-round picks, I'd like the deal.

(02-08-2024, 10:41 PM)Smitty Wrote: Then it’s a good thing that’s not what it cost to get PJW. The Mavs traded the protected ‘27 FRP, dumped a bad player/contract and acquired 2 SRP’s.

(02-08-2024, 10:55 PM)omahen Wrote: That is imho not a good way to look at it. Opportunity cost of losing 2027 pick for a risky player should be considered.

(02-08-2024, 10:16 PM)mvossman Wrote:  I don't disagree with your overall premise, but the guy has a career 3 point shooting percentage of 33 including his time in Dallas. While its reasonable to expect it to be higher in Dallas, I think it unlikely he will shoot over 40% like he did previously if he returns.

(02-08-2024, 11:08 PM)F Gump Wrote: You're free to your opinion. Mine is so different.

I can't get past the stark change when SD was in the Dallas system.

He was DIFFERENT in Dallas. Off-the-charts better. Two seasons, not one. One with JB, one without, but each season at a completely different tier. "Like a different player entirely" better.

.................... Overall ..... 3%
Before DAL    40.3          31.7
DAL yr 1        49.8          40.4
DAL yr 2        45.5          40.5
After DAL       39.6          30.9

I think he WAS a different player, because he was in a different role getting completely different looks and opportunities. Before and after, he's tasked to be the lead ball-handling guard, but in Dallas, he's freed to imo do what he does way better.

So I just don't see any reason why bringing him back with virtually the same role available, 3rd ball-handler, wouldn't succeed in the same way. And I would love for him to sign here where we can see if it again works like I think it would.

(02-08-2024, 10:41 PM)Smitty Wrote: Then it’s a good thing that’s not what it cost to get PJW. The Mavs traded the protected ‘27 FRP, dumped a bad player/contract and acquired 2 SRP’s.

(02-08-2024, 10:32 PM)surfpuckmd Wrote: It's the price of player that has to be considered.  We traded Porzingis for Dinwiddie and Bertans.  That was one of the most shocking trades in the NBA in the last 10 years.  It remains incredible that we got so little for Porzingis who was actually playing well for us when we dealt him.

Dinwiddie has been a useful player for a long time. He was just never near the level of Porzingis. The fact that we also ate the Bertans contract and gave up a 2nd-rounder made the entire deal pitiful.  

PJ Washington has the potential to revert to being a winning player.  He's been bad this season though.  2024 PJ Washington isn't worth a top-2 protected 2027 1st.  If we obtained him for our two 2nd-round picks, I'd like the deal.

(02-08-2024, 11:08 PM)F Gump Wrote: You're free to your opinion. Mine is so different.

I can't get past the stark change when SD was in the Dallas system.

He was DIFFERENT in Dallas. Off-the-charts better. Two seasons, not one. One with JB, one without, but each season at a completely different tier. "Like a different player entirely" better.

.................... Overall ..... 3%
Before DAL    40.3          31.7
DAL yr 1        49.8          40.4
DAL yr 2        45.5          40.5
After DAL       39.6          30.9

I think he WAS a different player, because he was in a different role getting completely different looks and opportunities. Before and after, he's tasked to be the lead ball-handling guard, but in Dallas, he's freed to imo do what he does way better.

So I just don't see any reason why bringing him back with virtually the same role available, 3rd ball-handler, wouldn't succeed in the same way. And I would love for him to sign here where we can see if it again works like I think it would.

(02-09-2024, 12:07 AM)surfpuckmd Wrote: You could look at it as we paid a 2030 pick swap to obtain Grant Williams who we then traded for PJ Washington and two 2nd-round picks.

In that case, we spent a top-2 protected 2027 1st as well as a 2030 pick swap to obtain PJ Washington and two, 2nd-round picks.

That's what it cost.

Once you've watched PJ Washington play for a while, you'll realize that this was not a good deal.

(02-08-2024, 11:08 PM)F Gump Wrote: You're free to your opinion. Mine is so different.

I can't get past the stark change when SD was in the Dallas system.

He was DIFFERENT in Dallas. Off-the-charts better. Two seasons, not one. One with JB, one without, but each season at a completely different tier. "Like a different player entirely" better.

.................... Overall ..... 3%
Before DAL    40.3          31.7
DAL yr 1        49.8          40.4
DAL yr 2        45.5          40.5
After DAL       39.6          30.9

I think he WAS a different player, because he was in a different role getting completely different looks and opportunities. Before and after, he's tasked to be the lead ball-handling guard, but in Dallas, he's freed to imo do what he does way better.

So I just don't see any reason why bringing him back with virtually the same role available, 3rd ball-handler, wouldn't succeed in the same way. And I would love for him to sign here where we can see if it again works like I think it would.

(02-09-2024, 02:10 AM)Dundalis Wrote: The difference with PJ vs 2022 Dinwiddie though is age and upside. He's 3 years younger than Dinwiddie with clearly more upside than Dinwiddie's at the time he was traded for.

I also don't really have an issue with people saying it's risky, but you literally said you hate PJ Washington. It's like, that's a step above simply feeling like it might be too risky and not work out well, or even not really liking the trade.

Another thing people aren't mentioning when considering the assets given up for both PJ and Gafford is their value as assets in and of themselves moving forward. They aren't 30+ year olds on terrible contracts. Both these guys are fairly likely to at least maintain the value they were traded for, with the potential to increase in value when you consider their age and the situations they have been in, vs coming into. Even players that don't perform quite as expected, tend to have more trade value having been part of winning teams with playoff experience, vs players who've maybe put up better numbers on perennial losers. Like one or both could have great performances rest of the year and play well in the post season, and someone comes up in the off season we want, they will have plenty of value. What we gave up isn't value simply lost.