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Trade & FA 2023-24: Stein-Ingram Trade Inevitable| LAL Want Lebron Back On Any Terms - Printable Version

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RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Windhorst: Unlikely Giannis extends contract this summer. - omahen - 05-21-2023

(05-21-2023, 08:58 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: It hasn’t gotten as much play on this board as it has other places, but there are some Cleveland based rumors surrounding a Jarrett Allen to Dallas based trade.  The idea is in the long run Allen and Mobley can’t co-exist, so Mobley has to be the LT Center and Allen has to go.

Rather than focus on whether it is a good idea or not, I’m curious what people think the cost will be.  Some of the thinking out there is Cleveland would like THJ.  Other places think the deal would revolve around Maxi and Reggie.  There isn’t agreement about the pick compensation either.  Cleveland’s only pick is #49, so they aren’t a trade down candidate.  Is #10/THJ reasonable for a 25 year old center who rebounds well and plays good D?  Is #10 too much?  If so, does either side substitute 2027 for #10?  If you do 2027, does that allow you to bring Wood into the conversation?  Can Wood and Mobley work in some form or fashion?  

I suspect Cleveland would like to spread the floor some without killing their super strong D.  So, Maxi and Reggie make a lot of sense (and Reggie probably keeps you from having to retain LaVert).  I’m just having a hard time figuring out what, if any, draft compensation is the right amount to go with this.

I agree #10 seems strong for Allen, but Bullock+Kleber (or THJ instead) is not enough - neither had good enough season to be considered as better player despite Allens really bad playoff run. Cleveland doesn't need to sell low. 2027 with some form of light protection seems fair, but Cleveland might prefer a pick this year, as they are building a contender. Allen+Okoro for Mavs salary and #10 would seem fair, but I am really not a fan of Okoro. One would really need to believe there is more in him that can be unlocked.

RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Windhorst: Unlikely Giannis extends contract this summer. - BigDirk41 - 05-21-2023

I would include the #10 if we could make it a 3 way and get DFS back as well. Otherwise, that's too much.

RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Windhorst: Unlikely Giannis extends contract this summer. - ItsGoTime - 05-21-2023

(05-21-2023, 08:58 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: It hasn’t gotten as much play on this board as it has other places, but there are some Cleveland based rumors surrounding a Jarrett Allen to Dallas based trade.  The idea is in the long run Allen and Mobley can’t co-exist, so Mobley has to be the LT Center and Allen has to go.

Rather than focus on whether it is a good idea or not, I’m curious what people think the cost will be.  Some of the thinking out there is Cleveland would like THJ.  Other places think the deal would revolve around Maxi and Reggie.  There isn’t agreement about the pick compensation either.  Cleveland’s only pick is #49, so they aren’t a trade down candidate.  Is #10/THJ reasonable for a 25 year old center who rebounds well and plays good D?  Is #10 too much?  If so, does either side substitute 2027 for #10?  If you do 2027, does that allow you to bring Wood into the conversation?  Can Wood and Mobley work in some form or fashion?  

I suspect Cleveland would like to spread the floor some without killing their super strong D.  So, Maxi and Reggie make a lot of sense (and Reggie probably keeps you from having to retain LaVert).  I’m just having a hard time figuring out what, if any, draft compensation is the right amount to go with this.
Allen got some play here after their playoffs ended. I think what quashed the talk was a tweet that Cle wanted to run it back or something like that. Time can change minds and they would be wrong to not explore options for Allen IMO. I wonder if they go for a more fitting trade like to Tor. Allen, Okoro and Osman (seconds?) for Siakam. 

I don’t think #10 is really too much for Allen, it’s probably right on the verge of fair trade value though so Bertans and McGee are really the only acceptable salary matching choices. At that point I think they are balking though.

RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Windhorst: Unlikely Giannis extends contract this summer. - BigDirk41 - 05-21-2023

Allen and DFS along with Luka, Kyrie is a much better starting lineup than last year. Either Green or some new player could be the 5th starter. Maybe Hardy will be ready by then. I really like Hardy.

RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Windhorst: Unlikely Giannis extends contract this summer. - Mavs2021 - 05-21-2023

(05-21-2023, 08:58 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: It hasn’t gotten as much play on this board as it has other places, but there are some Cleveland based rumors surrounding a Jarrett Allen to Dallas based trade.  The idea is in the long run Allen and Mobley can’t co-exist, so Mobley has to be the LT Center and Allen has to go.

Rather than focus on whether it is a good idea or not, I’m curious what people think the cost will be.  Some of the thinking out there is Cleveland would like THJ.  Other places think the deal would revolve around Maxi and Reggie.  There isn’t agreement about the pick compensation either.  Cleveland’s only pick is #49, so they aren’t a trade down candidate.  Is #10/THJ reasonable for a 25 year old center who rebounds well and plays good D?  Is #10 too much?  If so, does either side substitute 2027 for #10?  If you do 2027, does that allow you to bring Wood into the conversation?  Can Wood and Mobley work in some form or fashion?  

I suspect Cleveland would like to spread the floor some without killing their super strong D.  So, Maxi and Reggie make a lot of sense (and Reggie probably keeps you from having to retain LaVert).  I’m just having a hard time figuring out what, if any, draft compensation is the right amount to go with this.

I´d rather give them 2027 top 4 protected instead of #10. Honestly you get Hendricks next to Jarrett Allen that might be the most mobile-switchable PF/C rotation in the whole league. They could easily be a Marion/Tyson combination for Luka in 2-3 years.

Also if Dariq Whitehead really slips into the 2nd round, as currently projected by many mocks, I´d be all over that. I thought he might challenge the top 3 spots, which was probably a bit silly, but he was genuinely projected top 5 pick out of high school. Due to injuries, he´s barely played in college and is now dropping like a stone.

Ah he´s having another foot surgery. Guess that explains it.

RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Windhorst: Unlikely Giannis extends contract this summer. - HAguiar95 - 05-21-2023

As I've said in the other thread, I'd love to keep #10 and add it to our core. The '27 1st idea (has to be unprotected for the other team to bite, since it can't roll over to '28) is great to land our starting C. The PF spot I think could be filled by someone like Harris who could be had for fillers:

Harris/Korkmaz for Bullock/THJ/Bertans

Starting center (Allen or Claxton or Turner or Capela, someone who can lead our D) for '27 DAL 1st/Kleber/McGee

Re-signing Kyrie and Powell, we'd have:

Doncic/#10
Irving/Hardy
Green/BAE
Harris/MLE
Allen/Powell

With #10 (Wallace, Hendricks, Walker, Black, Thompson or Whitmore), MLE and BAE to add to our depth, I feel it's a really balanced squad. Harris as a massive expiring next year would give us options in terms of direction.

RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Windhorst: Unlikely Giannis extends contract this summer. - RoyTarpleysGhost - 05-21-2023

My thought was #10 + THJ is not enough for Allen. If that's all it takes, I pull the trigger immediately.

25 years old
We are desperate for a real center
Great locker room guy

I don't see many possibilities of getting a better fit/player with the 10th pick.

RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Windhorst: Unlikely Giannis extends contract this summer. - omahen - 05-21-2023

Since there is still like 2 and a half years before draft, perhaps a bit of a spin in a discussion. Could Exum be a vet min reclamation project? He has always been an awesome defender (I assume he still is) and quietly had a very good (and healthy) season in Eurolague. 39 % from three is not bad at all, even though EU three is a bit closer. Didn't watch any games, just looking at stats

https://www.euroleaguebasketball.net/euroleague/players/dante-exum/011302/

Also had officially best dunk of this euroleague season

https://www.euroleaguebasketball.net/euroleague/news/7days-magic-moment-of-the-season-dante-exum-partizan-mozzart-bet-belgrade/

RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Windhorst: Unlikely Giannis extends contract this summer. - Jakeospikez - 05-21-2023

I don't think a THJ + #10 for Jarrett Allen is gonna work out cap wise unless there are some picks coming in from elsewhere like a Wood or Kyrie S&T or something. That means no pick this year, no pick next year assuming the Mavs aren't interested in tanking again and the Green/Hardy rookie deals turning into regular contracts in 2024/25. There needs to be some developmental prospects on rookie deals that take over for Green/Hardy once they get new deals to have a balanced cap sheet. Also, something needs to be done with this Bertans near expiring, it is way more critical to shed than THJ, cause THJ is still valuable depth right now at 2/3. Bertans barely ever sees the court.

Saw some Cav fan rumblings of Allen costing the Mavs Wood S&T + #10 + Josh Green. Yea no thanks. Time to look for another deal if they're that delusional. Them being interested in a Wood S&T could make some sense though. They wanted to see how the Allen/Mobley combo performed in the playoffs and after it failed terribly, they're looking for more floor spacing depth pieces which could be some combination of Wood S&T/THJ/Bullock/Maxi. Feels like the Mavs showcased Wood a bit early and then held him back some post deadline and worked towards the tank, so maybe they got some deals in their back pocket.

RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Windhorst: Unlikely Giannis extends contract this summer. - BigDirk41 - 05-21-2023

If I'm the Mavs, no including Hardy or Green unless it somehow nets a 3rd star which I don't see possible with the current roster.

RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Windhorst: Unlikely Giannis extends contract this summer. - DanSchwartzgan - 05-21-2023

(05-21-2023, 11:37 AM)RoyTarpleysGhost Wrote: My thought was #10 + THJ is not enough for Allen.  If that's all it takes, I pull the trigger immediately.

25 years old
We are desperate for a real center
Great locker room guy

I don't see many possibilities of getting a better fit/player with the 10th pick.

As I suspected, the ideas about value are all over the place.

I agree with your three points and would add + rebounder (especially ORB), + defender and one of the few logical options where you don’t automatically say ‘why would his team do that’?  You get that question with Claxton and Turner.  Atlanta needs a consolidating trade for Capela and are just as ‘win-now’ as we are.  It is obvious why Phoenix would/will trade Ayton, but that extra $12mm matters.  

Putting Wood in any deal that includes #10 isn’t likely.  One thing I have to bear in mind is every deal that has happened has been slightly more expensive than I would have expected.  So, it wouldn’t shock me if it was #10 and whatever two Cleveland wants out of Maxi, Reggie and THJ.  I do like the idea of including Okoro.  

If I’m Cleveland, #10 is my priority.  Gives me a chance at a big wing who can grow into my 4th best player.  Maxi and Wade can help with the time it takes to develop.  Reggie is a one year commitment who is depth and can help if Okoro isn’t ready yet.  Reggie also keeps me from having to pay up for LaVert.  So, I’m asking for 10/Maxi/Reggie.  If Dallas will S/W Bertans after such a deal, they can use the Full MLE and be under the tax.  So, 10/Maxi/Reggie nets you Allen/Full MLE instead of TP MLE.

RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Windhorst: Unlikely Giannis extends contract this summer. - RoyTarpleysGhost - 05-21-2023

^ Yep

Count me in on any packages that give Cleveland a little more value than just THJ + 10 but dont have to include Hardy, Green, or the Mavs other remaining 1st.

RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Windhorst: Unlikely Giannis extends contract this summer. - DanSchwartzgan - 05-21-2023

(05-21-2023, 04:43 PM)RoyTarpleysGhost Wrote: ^ Yep

Count me in on any packages that give Cleveland a little more value than just THJ + 10 but dont have to include Hardy, Green, or the Mavs other remaining 1st.

One other note:  Cleveland has 49 and ChicagoJK has noted Maverick interest in some second round types.  Could easily just be due diligence on guys who might go undrafted.  Or….

Note two: Doing this while retaining THJ fits well into FG’s salary structure of 40/40/20/20/MLE. Green/Hardy/McGee and a bunch of minimums. Some minimums may be older like Morris and Holiday. Some might be younger like Lawson and McKinley.

RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Windhorst: Unlikely Giannis extends contract this summer. - KillerLeft - 05-21-2023

(05-20-2023, 11:29 AM)RoyTarpleysGhost Wrote: edit: Dan already posted in the draft thread


From Marc Stein

The Mavericks' trade interest in Phoenix's Deandre Ayton, league sources maintain, has been overstated to this point. While Ayton does have some fans in the organization, there are likewise questions about the former No. 1 overall pick's ability to live up to the $102-plus million left on Ayton's contract over the next three seasons. I don’t get any sense at this juncture that Ayton is Dallas’ top trade target

The Mavericks, league sources say, want to have a thorough handle on their drafting options before they make a firm commitment to trading out of the first round now that they've (narrowly) retained their top-10-protected pick in Round 1 that would have been conveyed to New York had it fallen any lower than No. 10 in Tuesday's lottery. The expectation in rival front offices, when it comes to the Mavericks' selection, nonetheless continues to be that they will try to package No. 10 with, say, Tim Hardaway Jr. and/or Dāvis Bertāns and/or JaVale McGee in a trade to be consummated after Dallas makes the pick.

Thank goodness. I hope this is true and not just negotiating.

RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Windhorst: Unlikely Giannis extends contract this summer. - SleepingHero - 05-21-2023

(05-21-2023, 08:58 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: It hasn’t gotten as much play on this board as it has other places, but there are some Cleveland based rumors surrounding a Jarrett Allen to Dallas based trade.  The idea is in the long run Allen and Mobley can’t co-exist, so Mobley has to be the LT Center and Allen has to go.

Rather than focus on whether it is a good idea or not, I’m curious what people think the cost will be.  Some of the thinking out there is Cleveland would like THJ.  Other places think the deal would revolve around Maxi and Reggie.  There isn’t agreement about the pick compensation either.  Cleveland’s only pick is #49, so they aren’t a trade down candidate.  Is #10/THJ reasonable for a 25 year old center who rebounds well and plays good D?  Is #10 too much?  If so, does either side substitute 2027 for #10?  If you do 2027, does that allow you to bring Wood into the conversation?  Can Wood and Mobley work in some form or fashion?  

I suspect Cleveland would like to spread the floor some without killing their super strong D.  So, Maxi and Reggie make a lot of sense (and Reggie probably keeps you from having to retain LaVert).  I’m just having a hard time figuring out what, if any, draft compensation is the right amount to go with this.

I'd actually be ecstatic if we could land Allen for a single first. 

I don't think a lottery pick is of much interest to CLE since they're definitely trying to win now. With that in mind a future Dallas first that lasts beyond Luka's current contract could be a very enticing carrot for a team looking to package things for future trades. 

Further, I think CLE would be all over THJ. There were a lot of rumblings over the TDL over a potential deal there. I don't think that was all smoke either. Reggie also fits the mold of a 3-D wing that they'd be really interested in. 

With that in mind, my offer would probably be THJ+Reggie+McGee+2027 (top 2 protected), for Allen+Okoro. 

Mavs get a wing and their center. THJ+Reggie are way more reliable wings that the Cavs desperately need. McGee is just a backup big that replaces Lopez they had in that vet role. Cavs spend 5 mil more the upcoming season, but save about 30 mil overall in the long run. 

 I don't think the Cavs are prioritizing spreading the floor with bigs (like they would with Maxi) as they literally had that in Love and they got rid of him for free. Yes Maxi is a much better defender, but have more wings allows you to spread the floor as well.

RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Windhorst: Unlikely Giannis extends contract this summer. - IamDougieFresh - 05-22-2023

THJ + Bullock + McGee is still my best offer for Ayton.

RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Windhorst: Unlikely Giannis extends contract this summer. - SleepingHero - 05-22-2023

https://twitter.com/thenbacentral/status/1660397727367278593?s=46&t=JCZO73vrym-K0Hu3J5z54Q

Pretty sure this is quoting that BR article where Pincus equivocates on an Ayton deal.

THJ+McGee+Green+10 is a massive overpay for Ayton. Like HUGE. I'd hate that deal. And I'm probably the biggest Ayton fanboy here. Remove 10 and Green, add Bullock and I'm much happier. If they really want a first then give them '27.

That's basically the Jarrett Allen deal we've been throwing around (THJ+Bullock+McGee+27). Between the 2 I'd still take Ayton. All the motor issues and attitude stuff I think can be fixed with a change of scenery. Wiggins had the same stuff labeled on him, and before the Warriors he literally was on some of the worst teams in the NBA (so those labels carried weight).

Ayton has already been to the finals playing a big role. He helped carry the Suns against the Pels series when Booker went down. The evidence is there that a team can win with him.

RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Windhorst: Unlikely Giannis extends contract this summer. - DanSchwartzgan - 05-22-2023

(05-22-2023, 09:08 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: https://twitter.com/thenbacentral/status/1660397727367278593?s=46&t=JCZO73vrym-K0Hu3J5z54Q

Pretty sure this is quoting that BR article where Pincus equivocates on an Ayton deal.

THJ+McGee+Green+10 is a massive overpay for Ayton. Like HUGE. I'd hate that deal. And I'm probably the biggest Ayton fanboy here. Remove 10 and Green, add Bullock and I'm much happier. If they really want a first then give them '27.

That's basically the Jarrett Allen deal we've been throwing around (THJ+Bullock+McGee+27). Between the 2 I'd still take Ayton. All the motor issues and attitude stuff I think can be fixed with a change of scenery. Wiggins had the same stuff labeled on him, and before the Warriors he literally was on some of the worst teams in the NBA (so those labels carried weight).

Ayton has already been to the finals playing a big role. He helped carry the Suns against the Pels series when Booker went down. The evidence is there that a team can win with him.

I”m with you.  Green is a bridge too far.  In fact, he’s a big part of how I see the whole Luka/Irving/Ayton thing working.  It feels like Pincus and Stein are competing mouthpieces in negotiations through the media.

RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Windhorst: Unlikely Giannis extends contract this summer. - Chicagojk - 05-22-2023

I agree. I hope they keep Green. I think he has more value to us than he would bring back in a trade. I really don't like using one of our younger pieces as a throw in a bigger deal.

Where I am at right now is down to three directions. I think we will get a lot of clarity on our panic level on how they handle Hardaway and Bertans. Hardaway is a solid player, but just not a great fit here. Could he fit better if we corrected the front court? No one is going to be excited picking up Bertans right now with his contract. This trade deadline or next offseason could be a different story with his 5 million guaranteed. Just speculation on my part but I think if you trade either now, Hardaway is .50 on the dollar and Bertans is .20 on the dollar. The longer you hold if you don't find a good offer now, they higher their value should get.

Option 1- Keep the pick and use MLE on someone like Naz Reid (can we get the Full MLE while keeping Bertans on the roster?)
Keep 27 first round pick, look for distressed assets for short term fit, Keep some of our contracts who are expiring in next year or two for future trade. If you miss out on Reid and the lack of FA at MLE level, this is really a long term play. This may be the best direction long term, but Mavs may be very trigger happy and may not want to wait.

Option 2- Move 10 to ATL for John Collins and 15. Use 15 for Lively or the longer developmental wings. Keep the 27 first round pick. Finding a right fit on salary will be tricky. I go back and forth, but this may be my favorite direction. Collins is a distressed asset who may need a change of scenery. Lively can develop into your defensive anchor. The issue is he may not be ready to start next year. How can this team bring back Powell starting again?

Option 3- The Ayton Trade. This one is really hard for me. Ayton is soon to be 25 and has averaged 18 and 10 for several years. He should be a good rim runner who can also pick and pop. While he is not a good shot blocker, he should be above average on defense as well. Just watching him in the last two playoffs have been rough. Does he need a change of scenery. In theory, playing with Paul, Booker and KD should have worked like a glove for him. Would THJ, Maxi and 10 interest PHX? Does it interest Dallas cutting down our depth even move and adding a third 30 million plus salary? I don't know how I feel yet on this one.

RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Windhorst: Unlikely Giannis extends contract this summer. - Ghost of Podkolzin - 05-22-2023

(05-21-2023, 08:58 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: It hasn’t gotten as much play on this board as it has other places, but there are some Cleveland based rumors surrounding a Jarrett Allen to Dallas based trade.  The idea is in the long run Allen and Mobley can’t co-exist, so Mobley has to be the LT Center and Allen has to go.

Rather than focus on whether it is a good idea or not, I’m curious what people think the cost will be.  Some of the thinking out there is Cleveland would like THJ.  Other places think the deal would revolve around Maxi and Reggie.  There isn’t agreement about the pick compensation either.  Cleveland’s only pick is #49, so they aren’t a trade down candidate.  Is #10/THJ reasonable for a 25 year old center who rebounds well and plays good D?  Is #10 too much?  If so, does either side substitute 2027 for #10?  If you do 2027, does that allow you to bring Wood into the conversation?  Can Wood and Mobley work in some form or fashion?  

I suspect Cleveland would like to spread the floor some without killing their super strong D.  So, Maxi and Reggie make a lot of sense (and Reggie probably keeps you from having to retain LaVert).  I’m just having a hard time figuring out what, if any, draft compensation is the right amount to go with this.

IMO Allen is a better fit than Ayton.  I would do #10/THJ for Allen.  IMO Wood is ideal with either Allen or Mobley.  You know I love his game, so I'd rather move THJ and retain Wood.