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+--- Thread: Trade & FA 2023-24: Stein-Ingram Trade Inevitable| LAL Want Lebron Back On Any Terms (/showthread.php?tid=2444)
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RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Windhorst: Unlikely Giannis extends contract this summer. - Jakeospikez - 05-19-2023
(05-19-2023, 02:13 PM)Mavs2021 Wrote: Wiggins was a fake star till he got with Steph. Lowry was a fake star till he got with Kawhi. Kyrie was a fake star till he got with LeBron. Love was a fake star till he got with LeBron. Great plan to make decisions based on what social media/ESPN thinks of players.
Or are you saying that Luka is not alpha enough to lead a Towns or Lavine to the promised land?
I think the fake stars are the ones that have too much public value and teams would demand stupid amounts of assets for. Wiggins is not an example of this, he was a distressed asset that was seen as an overpaid negative value contract. This is what the Mavs need to be hunting for. Find something perceived as negative value, that if brought into this situation with this team, will be the right fit and suddenly become a positive asset. Former 1st overall picks usually aren't complete lost causes other than like Anthony Bennett.
Kyrie and Love I don't see these guys being fake stars, everyone knew they were great, but yeah, any deal for them back then was going to require a ton of assets so don't really count on getting something done as a team with limited assets.
Some type of Vuc S&T seems decent if they wanted to go the Brook Lopez style route and use drop coverage defense.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Windhorst: Unlikely Giannis extends contract this summer. - omahen - 05-19-2023
(05-19-2023, 03:03 PM)Ghost of Podkolzin Wrote: I love the SnT of Wood for Vuc.
I don't get why you are so into Vuc. I think he is the exact center that it is almost impossible to build a contender with. Bad defender, can't defend anyone but non shooting centers and will be always targeted in the playoffs. He has two winning seasons combined in his Orlando and Chicago days. 42-40 in Orlando and 46-36 in Chicago.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Windhorst: Unlikely Giannis extends contract this summer. - omahen - 05-19-2023
(05-19-2023, 03:06 PM)Jakeospikez Wrote:
Some type of Vuc S&T seems decent if they wanted to go the Brook Lopez style route and use drop coverage defense.
Milwaukee has all NBA defenders Giannis, JRue and Middleton next to Lopez. I don't think any other team can really survive playing drop defense
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Windhorst: Unlikely Giannis extends contract this summer. - RoyTarpleysGhost - 05-19-2023
Kyrie is a top 5 player in terms of skill.
In terms of how he impacts winning (even without the crazy off the court stuff), he is outside the top 20 for me. You dont get bonus points for having an aesthetic game. Outside of scoring, he's not really good at anything else.
I'd probably rather have Reaves at half the annual salary. Reaves is a huge Laker fan and told teams not to draft him so he could sign with LA. I dont think they would do him dirty.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Windhorst: Unlikely Giannis extends contract this summer. - Chicagojk - 05-19-2023
(05-19-2023, 01:49 PM)omahen Wrote: I really hope some "fake stars" like Towns, LaVine and similar become available, so that those asset heavy teams spend their chests on them. It would leave less competition for the level of guys Mavs are aiming at. I am really affraid what Portland, Houston, Indiana and even Orlando intend to do with their picks. Than you have NY who is very star hungry and has a bunch of assets. OKC will start cashing in their picks at some point. New Orleans still has a lot to spend, so does Sacramento. There are just so little teams that actually want to tank. And the ones that do, don't really have anything interesting to offer. But since there are a lot of buyers, some teams will likely decide it makes more sense to sell their "fake star" players for treasure chests and start a rebuild.
I have no idea who the Mavs would like to target, but to be honest the players they may target may not be guys the hoarding draft pick teams would want to use their assets on. I too have no confidence in the Mavs to have a smart plan and execute it well. So there is that.
But a few moves like these for example puts them in a much better spot. I don't know if these are available and probably not my preferred direction.
*Distressed asset John Collins--He is a good player. Not worth the contract but playing in constant trade rumors is not an easy thing to do.
* with the 15th pick Dereck Lively- Young center to develop. probably a 15 minute player next year----The Javale role. Hopefully for much more in year 2 and 3.
*MLE Thybule--- I don't know if he is worth the full MLE and Portland intends to keep him, so replace him with someone else if you wish. But I want to use him for this example.
If Dallas can do that while keeping their first in 27 than that is a solid start and an improved roster. This is dependent on re-signing Kyrie, and that may very well be a ticking time bomb.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Windhorst: Unlikely Giannis extends contract this summer. - Ghost of Podkolzin - 05-19-2023
(05-19-2023, 03:09 PM)omahen Wrote: I don't get why you are so into Vuc. I think he is the exact center that it is almost impossible to build a contender with. Bad defender, can't defend anyone but non shooting centers and will be always targeted in the playoffs. He has two winning seasons combined in his Orlando and Chicago days. 42-40 in Orlando and 46-36 in Chicago.
His defensive rating is better than Ayton. His fg%/dfg% is only -2%. I'm not saying he's Mutumbo, but for his production of 18/11/3/1 is something you can live with. Again, we were 30th in rebounding last year (with the best rebounding PG in the league).
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Windhorst: Unlikely Giannis extends contract this summer. - RoyTarpleysGhost - 05-19-2023
I wonder if Cleveland has any interest in moving Jarrett Allen. #10 + THJ + ?
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Windhorst: Unlikely Giannis extends contract this summer. - F Gump - 05-19-2023
(05-19-2023, 02:56 PM)omahen Wrote: If Kyrie really wants to go to Lakers, I would want two guys in return - Reaves and Vanderbilt.
The Lakers can't sign Reaves to a bigger deal than 4/$50M (or 3/$36M). They can match, then keep, a bigger one, but that's not a snt deal.
So ...
1 No danger of snt-ing for him on a deal you don't like.
2 It seems unrealistic Reaves would sign for those snt numbers.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Windhorst: Unlikely Giannis extends contract this summer. - ItsGoTime - 05-19-2023
(05-19-2023, 02:56 PM)omahen Wrote: If Kyrie really wants to go to Lakers, I would want two guys in return - Reaves and Vanderbilt. I am a bit scared about giving Reaves a big deal, but I guess it is better than nothing. I would be prepared to eat additionally needed salary to make the trade work (Beasley or Bamba). I think this is best Mavs could hope for to get. I think, Mavs ceiling would still drop with this moveIt must be how much you value Harris cause Reaves and Vandy is certainly at the value of Maxey if not over. It’s just gotta be your idea, I get it.
Reaves and Vandy would shift Mavs needs to center and a good third creator. Perhaps I could see Russell in this role, although I am really not a fan. He has been really bad this season and is a huge defensive liability.
The Lakers idea got me thinking about my scenario. If Kyrie called and said Phoenix, LAL and Phil would all give him the same contract and he doesn’t have s preference which team he goes to. That would be the ideal situation.
I know Omahen (I mean Eeyore)…never gonna happen.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Windhorst: Unlikely Giannis extends contract this summer. - Luka77 - 05-19-2023
You guys are aware that Reaves plays next to 2 All NBA defenders ( AD, Lebron) and another high level NBA level defender ( Vandy) that can cover for him on that end of the court.
Reaves role this season on LAL has been ball handler, scorer and facilator. His scoring along with Hachimura, DLO and other younger players has allowed LeBron and AD to focus more on defensive end.
Him having the same role on the Mavs wouldnt work. Him and Luka would be nightmare defensive paring and an over pay in FA by the Mavs as he wouldnt have the same impact.
Moreover he would take many of Hardys minutes that he needs to develop.
It's interesting to watch Denver hunt him on that end. When players like shooting challenged Aaron Gordon need a bucket they make sure to get a switch on him and just bully him to the rim.
Him and Luka would not be a good combo.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Windhorst: Unlikely Giannis extends contract this summer. - Ghost of Podkolzin - 05-19-2023
Reaves' DefRtg is in between AD and Bron. With his efg% of 61.6 and 39.8%3pt, I'll take that better than average DefRtg.
And... never ever do not pursue young starting talent because you want to give a backup more minutes. If Kyrie's gone, Reaves would have his minutes. Nothing changes... Hardy has to earn those minutes, especially on the defensive end.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Windhorst: Unlikely Giannis extends contract this summer. - Luka77 - 05-19-2023
(05-19-2023, 05:29 PM)Ghost of Podkolzin Wrote: Reaves' DefRtg is in between AD and Bron. With his efg% of 61.6 and 39.8%3pt, I'll take that better than average DefRtg.
And... never ever do not pursue young starting talent because you want to give a backup more minutes. If Kyrie's gone, Reaves would have his minutes. Nothing changes... Hardy has to earn those minutes, especially on the defensive end.
Sure pursue young talent if it's an upgrade to what you already have or brings something to the team concept you don't currently have.
On a list of priorities the Mavs don't need another ball handler, facilitor, scorer. They need defenders, rim protection, rebounding and ability to spead the floor. Reaves brings little to none of those qualities.
Also, IMO Hardy is more talented and will be more impact full over time given the minutes than Reaves.
Moreover, contrary to popular belief Kyrie is not a bad defender. I would much rather keep Kyrie and have him blocking Hardys minutes give his role to Reaves.
Reaves will get Ducan Robinson overpaid soon and I'm not looking forward to the Mavs doing that.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Windhorst: Unlikely Giannis extends contract this summer. - omahen - 05-19-2023
(05-19-2023, 05:01 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: It must be how much you value Harris cause Reaves and Vandy is certainly at the value of Maxey if not over.
We will just have to disagree on this one. I think Maxey is far more valuable than those two combined. Reaves is a FA and luka77 described him very nicely, I think. I am affraid he is way overhyped. Vandy is a nice defender but limited offensively. He is not worth a FRP, probably. Would fit nicely on Mavs though as he really fills the position of need. Maxey is a cost and contract (RFA) controlled 22 year old who is scoring 20ppg with over 40 % from three while playing next to Embiid and Harden.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Windhorst: Unlikely Giannis extends contract this summer. - HoosierDaddyKid - 05-19-2023
(05-19-2023, 03:48 PM)RoyTarpleysGhost Wrote: Kyrie is a top 5 player in terms of skill.
In terms of how he impacts winning (even without the crazy off the court stuff), he is outside the top 20 for me. You dont get bonus points for having an aesthetic game. Outside of scoring, he's not really good at anything else.
I'd probably rather have Reaves at half the annual salary. Reaves is a huge Laker fan and told teams not to draft him so he could sign with LA. I dont think they would do him dirty.
They're not. Lakers are re-signing him especially if LeBron has a say in it. LeBron loves him as a player.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Windhorst: Unlikely Giannis extends contract this summer. - Luka77 - 05-19-2023
Btw, trading Kyrie, who the Mavs traded an unprotected 2029 first and a couple of key rotation players for a package of Reaves (UDFA), Vandy (2nd Round pick), and Beasley (underproforming late first, a bench player who the Mavs could have drafted if not for the Rondo trade) would be right in line with the misallocation of assests that Mavs fans have gotten accustomed too.
Moreover, making such a trade would be an serious indictment of the Mavs development program/coaches to produce their own NBA players.
If Kyrie wants LAL, my demands would start with with an LAL unprotected '27 first, Rui (idk how you make it happen him being RFA), Vandy and salary if needed. That would take care of the Mavs hole at the 4/PF spot that they have been missing from some time.
Side note: Can the Mavs hire Phil Handy (developmental guru) away from LAL or someone of that elk please.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Windhorst: Unlikely Giannis extends contract this summer. - Chicagojk - 05-19-2023
https://twitter.com/protectedpick/status/1659592207182209025?s=20
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Windhorst: Unlikely Giannis extends contract this summer. - Luka77 - 05-19-2023
(05-19-2023, 08:07 PM)Chicagojk Wrote: https://twitter.com/protectedpick/status/1659592207182209025?s=20
Idk, how many of you have seen the clips on YouTube of Booker yelling at Ayton to "take some pride."
But for some of you think this is the answer to all the Mavs woes.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Windhorst: Unlikely Giannis extends contract this summer. - F Gump - 05-19-2023
(05-19-2023, 08:19 PM)Luka77 Wrote: Idk, how many of you have seen the clips on YouTube of Booker yelling at Ayton to "take some pride."
Dude got his max contract and is set for life. He doesn't have to care and work to be a winner anymore (at least, not until a contract year). All he needs is to get in a situation to get his stats.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Windhorst: Unlikely Giannis extends contract this summer. - dirkfansince1998 - 05-19-2023
(05-19-2023, 08:19 PM)Luka77 Wrote: Idk, how many of you have seen the clips on YouTube of Booker yelling at Ayton to "take some pride."
But for some of you think this is the answer to all the Mavs woes.
At some point people said the same thing about Wiggins. Two years later he was one of the best two-way wings in the league and celebrated his first championship. Impossible to tell from the outside.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: Windhorst: Unlikely Giannis extends contract this summer. - Branduil - 05-19-2023
Wiggins' problem was more being an extremely low-IQ chucker, it wasn't not giving effort. One is fixable in the right situation, the other less so.